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I was thinking about your previous post yesterday and wondering. If it's like June, would it be a sin to dress up like a princess and have nice people give you candy? If not, then I can't really see why doing it on October 31st is a sin either. If you don't have any interest in whatever psycho religious reactionary nonsense these anti-halloween people spew, then all you're doing is having snacks in a costume. Seeing it as more than that - and seeing EVERYTHING as more than that - really must make life complicated.

I agree completely with Egg Donor. I'm one of T's sister's 'Lordy' friends and also get mightily p'ed off with the ridiculous pious pointy-fingered Christians. Where's the love, the Grace, the non-judgmentalism? And where, pleeease, is the FUN??? Christmas Day, although NOW used to celelbrate the birth of Christ, is actually based on a pagan celebration - but I have yet to hear most of the Lordy types accusing those with Christmas trees of sinning (except the JW's...and that's a whole other story).

"She might as well have stabbed baby jesus in the eye." ...best line ever.

I'm a clapper and the crazy clappers on the internet make me nuts too. It's not a Christian attitude to attack people on their blogs in the name of Jesus...it's just plan crazy, and lets face it, the web is full of nutters.

I debated whether or not to do Halloween because some of the costumes over here are really slutty or demonic, but in the end, candy triumphed and we had a great time.

AND...It's actually loads of fun being a clapper.

I'm a "lordy" person (Ha! I'm going to use that term from now on instead of Christian!) and I was raised to be a finger-pointy, judgy mcjudgerson. Now I'm much more open minded and, in my opinion, like Jesus. On behalf of the judgemental Christians, I apologize.

Amen sista!

Thank you for this. I had to stop reading yesterday's comments because of the hate. Seriously, if wreaths and mistletoe and Christmas trees devolved from pagan rituals to Christian ones, can't we accept the fact that old "Satanic" Halloween rituals have devolved into people dressing up like a princess and getting sweets?

Oh, and THIS: "Sometimes you Lordy folk make it very difficult for even the Lordy to be Lordy."

Yes yes yes yes yes. When I tell people that I'm Christian, I get accused of everything from gay-hating to Jew-hating to being a stupid mindless sheep. None of which are true but ALL of which are due to the tiny-but-vocal minority who selectively cut and paste flaming diatribes all over the world.

it is a fact of life that it is easier being a sinner then a saint.

even jesus was persecuted. i mean, he WAS perfect, and look was said/done to him.

we can expect no less. and it will get worse.

From one of the "Lordy" folk: Um, the FIRST rule is to NOT judge others. So those who are poking your sister need to step back and examine their own faith. Seriously. It's some silly costumes and candy. Get a grip.

I once saw a little display on books that had been banned in various school districts here in the USA and I noted that some school in the deep south had banned the Chronicles of Narnia because they promoted an interest in magic, witchcraft and the occult. I guess no one had informed them that C. S. Lewis had written them as Christian allegory. Talk about shooting yourself in the foot...

Preach it Sister Tertia! Seriously, I hate hypocritical Christians like the ones giving your sister a hard time. They give the rest of us a bad name.

Ugh...you know, in my little world, sin IS part of being a Christian. It is what you do about it or with it or in spite of it that is the difference. those that think their lives are without sin really need to take a step back and rethink that attitude!

Hang me by my toenails...Anakin Skywalker, Harry Potter, the Grim Reaper, Pikachu and Superman all graced my living room this weekend (and only two boys in all those costumes, too).

Well having been a surro 3 times already (twice for...dum dum dum , a gay couple) I am soooooo going to hell and all that. LOL. Easier to be a sinner as you say... but I can look back at my life and be proud, not because I am christian but because I am a good person.

Christians are going to have different convictions about what does or does not please God. To one, Halloween is nothing more than a fun costume party. To another, the dark side of Halloween is very real to them, and they cannot, with a clean conscience ever participate in it. Like every other issue in this world, we should be able to express and discuss these issues respectfully without being hateful or mean-spirited.

I can understand your frustration. You're probably thinking, "Why would I want to be a part of THAT!"
However, I would encourage you to look past the "do's and don'ts" that seem to be at the forefront of people's faith and instead remember the Christ who sacrificed Himself for all of us "sinners."

I am a Christian. A liberal one. I tend to follow the path Jesus showed us. Serve others. Love people. Stand up to people who act like pharisees. Its simple. Very simple. I am not a part of "that". I have my profanity, love my sex, love my gays, and have Jesus. If trick or treating or hanging out with homosexuals or being married to an Atheist gets me a ticket for hell, than so be it. I am sure I will be in good company.

I am clapper! I feel most anything can be evil only if we allow it to be. I don't allow my kids to dress up in things that are evil - so I solved that problem.

Now, I must correct one on what the Bible says about judging. It says to "judge righteous judgement." Funny, how not many people know that but even the athiest knows it says "judge not." However, it doesn't even mean what people believe it to mean.

Ok - off my Baptist soap box.

Actually, Matthew says:

Do not judge lest you be judged. For in the way you judge, you will be judged; and by your standard of measure, it will be measured to you. And why do you look at the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, `Let me take the speck out of your eye,' and behold, the log is in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye.

Simply put don't judge or unless you are completely righteous - and who is? - it's coming back on you. Seems like maybe we should stop judging others in this world and let God do the judging. You wouldn't want to claim yourself more knowledgeable than He, would you?

The Bible clearly admits the straight and narrow is far more difficult than a life of sin. That being said, I am well aware Christians can be judgmental. The funny thing is, so can non-Christians, but they are rarely attacked. If you take a good look at the world, you quickly learn that everyone - EVERYONE - has a nasty judgmental side. For Christians, it just happens to be on matters of faith. However, there's people who throw judgment in every avenue - weight, health, child raising, elder care and working with aging parents, the work force, politics, business in general, schools and parental involvement, drivers on the road, BIKERS (Ahh, ehh, remember that one?;) ), people with many kids, people with no kids, people who had kids later in life, teen mothers, parents who let their kids run like maniacs in stores and restaurants, parents who won't let their kids have any individuality, parents who are overbearing, parents who don't care enough, women who are too submissive, women who are too impassioned...need I go on?

I am not defending mean-spirited people who use Jesus as an excuse to point their HUMAN judgments (as opposed to well-intentioned Christians trying to build one another up in the body of Christ). I am merely stating that there are jerks in literally every avenue of life, but that religion in general is the new punching bag.

The bottom line, and I mean this as no offense to you or any other non-Christian, is that there is a certain level of personal accountability in faith that only other Christians can grasp. And, most unfortunately, even half of them fail. The New Testament speaks clearly about the fulfilled covenant, a sort of "release" that did not do away with old, strict laws, but that instead ushered in a new era of understanding. Some of us eat meat, and others do not. Some of us are called to cover our heads, so-to-speak, and others are not. Certain things are black and white - No one gets to the Father but through Jesus Himself. But many, many, MANY other things are matters of personal conviction.

And, for the record, on Saturday night I hosted a seven hour long Halloween party full of costumes, friends and - gasp! Shock! Horror! - even a few drinks. It was nothing satanic (haha), evil or otherwise. Sunday morning? I was at church. That's not hypocrisy. That's personal convictions.

hear, hear!
looks like you're going to get quite a few comments on this one too...

Yeah, the holier than though "Christians" always give religion a bad name.

I grew up in a Baptist household but not too judgey. What I find interesting is the things that are "bad" in the lordy community change along with the times. So in my father's day it was playing cards, dancing/dance halls, bingo, well gambling of any sort, hard liquor. The generation before it was work of any sort on Sundays, probably radios. In my day the game dungeons and dragons was evil, back masking on Hotel California etc. but cards were now acceptable, as was dancing.
In my experience Christians are tougher on other Christians who have slightly different views than they are on non-Christians. The Baptists think the Catholics are the worst of all.

I totally agree with you! Why focus on all the negative stuff! The "Lordy people" are supposed to know better!

now you understand why i so dislike the bible-thumping jesus freaks who were brain-damaged at rebirth who run local and state politics where i live.

Darling, no one was ugly to me but thank you for defending me. It was more of a general frustration at some of the wanky rules around. Andrea always speaks sense, like that Andrea! I did another post today on trying to get parents to question why they don't allow stuff. For me it just HAS to be personal conviction. For me being a clapper is still awesome though. 10 years of clapping on November 14th and it makes life a little more intense, crazy, passionate and interesting for me. Remember I told you it was like drugs, (tried to appeal to the addict in you) well I am still addicted to that all consuming love that feels like being in the sun on my best beach on a perfect day.

I am a Christian, and i am a believe and i dont mind admitting that i dont go to Church, i dont go to bible studies, what i do do is pray, i have conversations with the Lord. If one goes to Church, that is great. However i have a saying "Going to church and saying i am a christian doesn't make you a christian, any more than standing in a garage and saying i am a car makes you a car"
I dont like people who think they are better than anyone else just because they claim to be Christians. Our God is a loving and forgiving God, he loves you no mattter what you have done as long as you ask for forgiveness, and repent. However when you do this it has to be from the heart, not the head.
Thats is just my opinion, i feel very strongly about this point.

PS hope i did not offend anyone here, it was not my intention

Thanks Melanie - agree 100%!!!

Hon, I haven't been getting your feed, so I'm way behind. Don't know what happened? Anyway, you are lovely and your sister is wonderful and I don't understand why mean people want to attack others. what on earth do they get out of it?

Jesus wasn't about hate, he was about love and kindness. I wish some others would focus on that part more and the other bits less.

Thank G-d, I'm a Jew! :)

It's easier because it's fun.

In our house, we don't celebrate halloween or take part in anything that involves or glorifies evil/witchcraft/spirits, etc.

That is OUR conviction because of OUR beliefs. Your life will be different because you don't share OUR beliefs. I can disagree with your lifestyle because it is not what I believe, BUT that is because our belief systems are different. Does that make sense? (hope so, hehe).

We are fairly conservative Christians. You can disagree with someone without being hateful. Jesus was very up front with people but spoke "the truth in love". You can love someone and show love to them without being hateful.

There is a certain type of fundamental 'Christian' who is dominated by hating people. That is not the fruit of a Christian! The bible says "the greatest of these is love".

I can show love towards you while disagreeing with you. People get caught up in the details.. Christianity revolves around the salvation message and people ignore or forget that:

We are all sinners and God sent his son Jesus to be crucified for us. On that cross he died, taking all of our sins. Anyone who repents of their former life and believes that Jesus died for THEM, will go to heaven when they die, to be with Jesus and God in perfection for eternity.

Anyone who rejects Jesus' free gift of salvation goes to hell.

God loves EVERYONE and doesn't want anyone to go to hell, that's why he sent his Son as a sacrifice FOR US. People who are haters are ignoring the fact that God loves ALL.

He hates our sinful behaviour, but he still loves us!

Ek stem nou so met jou saam...

Am so with you on this.

Fundamentalists of ANY stripe can be quite annoying! It's interesting b/c most of the people I know *raised* in a fundamentalist branch of religion rejected it an became athiest or agnostic. It's b/c they were raised with such a black/white vision of the world that they can't say "Hmmm, the religion I grew up with blows; but maybe there's something else I can try!" Instead, when they reject their religion-of-origin, they reject ALL religion.

I was brought up in a very bland Protestant type religion, and plan on bringing up my son the same. My mom became 'born-again' when I was 16, but it was too late for me to follow that plan. As a result my mom is broken hearted over my the fact I'm going to hell (I'm a Christian, just not the *right* kind of Christian). It just seams so ridiculous to me! Sigh.

Live and let live is my philosophy! And I wish some of the fundies would get that message. Would sure end a lot of wars. it's not 'religion' that causes wars in my opinion, it's the fundamentalist thou-shalt-believe-as-I-believe members of different religions that cause wars. And now I'll probably be bombed for saying that.

Love that you stick by your sister.

oh man, i have been back a few times this post and to read these comments, and find that the REALLY lordy ones make me feel like vomiting every time, but still it fascinates me. not because of the people themselves, or their convictions - they sound lovely, but because i was raised by super judgmental christians - i was MARINATED in one-eyed closed minded beliefs, and heard regular tirades mocking and denigrating perfectly sincere people of other belief systems, and i then acquired my very own TERRIBLE IGNORANT ATTITUDE toward other people, criticising them and condemning them without knowing how anti my own supposed beliefs such actions were - it simply killed a part of me being involved in that from birth, and i eventually walked away from that religious group.

now i don't believe in anything at all, just that 'what is, is' and what the future holds, will happen with or without my cooperation, and without me needing to know or believe in anyone or anything. and i am allowing my 2 year old kid to be exposed to every bit of what i now term 'cultural expression' (short of child sacrifice and naked orgies) possible, so that she eventually learns to accept the differences between individuals and groups - and to celebrate these.

i eat xmas cake, easter buns, hallah bread, and sint niklas chocolate, and so does she. we light candles in churches that we visit (SHE LOVES medieval and gothic styles the best) and she shushes respectfully when seeing people praying or otherwise worshipping. we also visit buddhist temples and taoist retreats, convents, cloisters, beguinhofs, shrines and synagogues - and the muslim equivalents, and there she is also encouraged to show respect for the other people there, and hopefully will one day understand and accept (with or without belief) the intended meaning behind the place and rituals carried out therein. maybe one day she will decide that she has a spiritual need that one of these places may fill for her - that will be her choice, and i will support it as best i can.

we will no doubt do the halloween thing one day, with a group of her friends, and it may then be an opportunity for her to learn what that day means to different groups of people around the world, but in the meantime, let it be about costumes of the movies and characters she will be familiar with by then, and having fun with other people . . . and saying hello to her neighbours, and being a part of a crazy mixed up worldwide community.

the god i used to believe in was kind, non-judgmental, forgiving and all-powerful, not petty and preachy and nit-picky, seeing beyond any physical matter into the deepest heart of a person or situation, and really understanding where people were coming from. i hope i model that kind of personality, and thus teach my little girl do the same, so she has a happy productive life that encourages her to support others in their time of need, and that doesn't allow her to be eaten up with anger, anguish, judgment and self-hatred. and hopefully, that life will involve a crap-load of candy, parties, laughter, song, dance, rituals, candlelight, special dinners, silent moments, prayer etc, and an intimate and joyful association with people that she values as unique individuals that have, just as she does, an equally unique way of expressing their feelings and beliefs - whatever those may be.

A wonderful minister once told me not to confuse christians with Christianity. That's probably good advice, but sometimes it is very difficult to follow it.

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