The Pros and Cons of having another child

(Ok, this post is starting to mess with my mind. I can NOT fix the table or the font so it is going up as is. It is starting to make me cross and we can't have that. Please look past the appalling formatting. EEEKK!  The table is too big to leave like that. I am going to have to do a 'read more' thingy. I know you hate it, but until I've fixed that forking enormous table, it is going to have to do)

This has been weighing on my mind very heavily the last few weeks. I feel as if I am at a point in my life where I need to decide whether to have another child or not.

In a bizarre turn of events, it would appear that having sex with my husband could in fact, lead to pregnancy (you should try it, comes highly recommended!)   I’ve suggested that we cease and desist with immediate effect, but to date he has shown a marked lack of enthusiasm for my suggestion, selfish bastard that he is.

Anyway, the bottom line is that I need to decide whether I am going to leave the factory open and entertain the possibility of another child, or whether to draw a line under that chapter in my life and stick with being a family of four.

I need your advice. I need you to step outside your current situation, and tell me what you really think. I am going to give you all my pros and cons, and I need you to tell me what you would do, if you were me.

Now, I want you to pay careful attention to the following two VERY important safety announcements:

1. What I am about to say is NOT a judgement on you, on your choices, your circumstance or your situation. If I say I feel ABC, it has nothing to do with you and everything to do with me and MY situation. Ok? I’d appreciate the same type of tolerance. Ta.

2. I need you to not think about yourself and how many children YOU have or you would want to have. If you have three kids, saying that I should only have two does NOT mean you don’t love your third child or wish that you could swap him or her for a bucket full of cash and a new car. Got it?

The emergency exits are marked clearly and are being pointed out to you now.

Ok, so that out of the way, lets get to my list. Of course this assumes that I am able to get pregnant again, but you know, it is not even so much about that than about living in that headspace of wanting / not wanting any more.

I’ve done a little spreadsheet because I am a closet nerd. Have a look and tell me what you think.  Now remember, some points are weighted heavier than others and one should not look only at the total number of items under each heading. I’ve listed my ‘for’ and ‘against’ arguments under each headings, with counter arguments for each point, plus counter arguments for each counter argument.

 

                                                   

Go on the   pill	Weighting
I am in   such a good place now (I can get there again) But why risk it?	A
My business is going so well (I   can get there again) Having another child WILL affect the business	A
I   am getting older (does it matter?) It does to me	A
Our life   is finally getting into a great rhythm (It can get there again) It will be   harder on our marriage and our lives	B
It is   getting easier and easier with the kids (so, it can get there again) Three   is harder than two	B
Birth   defects (I will terminate) Imagine how traumatic that will be	B
We don’t   have money (We can make a plan) The cost of living is going up and up. I   can afford two kids, I am not sure we can afford more	B
No more   wondering ‘what if’ (but will I feel sad?) Imagine how lovely it will be   to MOVE ON!	B
No more   miscarriages (They are not so bad, I can handle them) But still, they do suck   quite a lot	B
Everything   caters for a family of four (Not important) 3 kids does make things a   little harder	C
I would   need a bigger car (Not important) Yes, stupid point	C
I would   need a bigger house (Not important) Valid point, we don’t have money for a   bigger house	C

 

                                 

Stay off     the pill	Weighting
The   love is so divine, I could have more (But what if it changes the love I   have   for A&K) It wont change the love, but it might change the   dynamics of our family	A
What if I   have regrets one day (Life is about choice, choice implies giving up     something) And what if, God forbid, something happens to either A or K   (HOW CAN YOU EVEN THINK THAT!)	A
My   children give my life meaning (I am starting to find meaning in other   things too) But what if these other things disappear?	A
I want a   chance at normal, one baby (Perhaps it is time to give up on that. Chalk   it up as something I'll never have)	B
Going on   the pill seems so final (Yes it is, but perhaps you need to draw the line)	B
Will I   miss the thrill of ‘trying’? Can I close that chapter? (I was fine till   the MC)	B
I want to   end on a good note, this feels like infertility wins (Infertility has done     what it’s done. There is no undoing) I think I will always have the   scars, perhaps I should just accept that.	B

I don’t want to stay off the pill and just ‘see what happens’. We’ve seen what happens. I have got pregnant twice. And lost it twice. That pregnant-then-miscarriage thing gets really boring after a while. Plus it feels as if my life has been in limbo for TEN years now. I am keen to make a decision either way. I just wish it was an easy decision to make; it isn’t.

I am leaning towards going on the pill for two main reasons: my life is so great now, that I am really keen to move on and away from that bloody awful part of my life. Only now that I am in such a good place in my life do I realize just how fucking awful it has been for so long. I am, for the first time in a long, long time, starting to find happiness within myself. It feels SO so wonderful to be happy.

Secondly, I am not sure I want to be 40+ with a newborn. I feel terrible saying that because most of my egg donor recipients are 40+ but this is how I feel for ME. If I hadn’t had my children, I would still be trying even if I was 50+

But the one big, big thing that is preventing me from making a certain decision is that I am so scared I will regret it one day. My two children give me so much joy, I am scared I am going to get to 60, 70 etc and think that the only thing of any value in life is children, and be very sorry I didn’t have more.

Right, I need to end this post. I am starting to ramble and the wine is making me feel very melancholy.

So dear friends, what do you think? If you were me, would you be happy with two or would you have another?

A poll for the shy types:

Comments

[Stef]

T you want another baby, give it a shot otherwise you will ALWAYS wonder. Everything doesn't need to be tied up in a perfect little package... just do it cause in your heart you're yearning for it, that's enough reason :)

[Tiah]

Just wondering - have you ever been on the pill before? Some women have no problems. Others, it can turn into a living nightmare.

As to your personal debate regarding number of children. Despite all your "negatives" it seems like you want to give it one last shot. Would you give it one last shot - or once you started trying, would you feel obliged to keep going until you did it? Is there a line for trying as well?

Good luck with your decision. I think most families wrestle with "are we done" even if they "know" the answer.

[Veronica]

I don't think if you had another baby that you would be able to regret it.

And it really sounds like you want another baby. I think you should go for it, like Stef said, otherwise you will always be wondering.

[Veronica]

Hmmm, I thought I posted a comment, it must have been held for moderation.

[Chickenpig]

I was in your situation, except that I can't get pregnant by having sex with my husband (as far as we know). Now I am 8 months pregnant with my third, and loving every minute of it. Yes, we will need a bigger house, yes I'm going to be 38 two weeks after this baby is born (not quite 40, but close enough), and yes, I had to go through IVF, again, and I already have twin toddlers at home...but I wanted a third child. I know that if I hadn't tried I would regret it. I wanted to experience having a child and NOT being a scared new parent with twins. I wanted to experience being pregnant again. I can't wait to see what this baby will look like, how it will get along with my boys, and the dynamic of having three children...not just twins and the two of us parents. You seem to be really on the fence about this, which means to me that you should try again. If you were DONE you would know. I know now that I don't ever want to do this again, that three is enough. Just the thought of being DONE before made me sad. If that is how you feel, then you should give it one more college try before hanging up the ovaries.

[Heather]

I think that one important factor in your quality of life is that you are not currently actively trying for another child. The stress of battling for another baby would have to in some way affect your current happiness/emotional stability and stress levels around your family. I would weigh the known certainty of happiness now (and on into the future) against the unknown potential struggle for another child. I am not a risk taker, overall, especially when things are really good, so my opinions are probably colored by a "2 birds in the hand is worth 3 in the bush" mentality.

[Orange]

I hate to see you opening yourself up for another round of heartbreak. Yes, you're a champion miscarrier, soldiering on through it all, but I would love it if you could go years without experiencing another loss. My innate pessimism about human reproduction makes it hard for me to consider the possibility that everything would go perfectly next time.

For me the door to a second pregnancy was closed by circumstances beyond my control—it sucks to have the choice taken away from me, but then again, it's kinda nice not to be responsible for making a choice. I don't miss the exhaustion of caring for an infant/toddler, though. It's nice to sleep at night!

[kristylynne]

This is such a personal decision, Tertia. Only you can make it.

If it were me, and I were able to get PG naturally (which I can't, so I'm sure that colors my opinion) I would stay off the pill and see what happens.

However, I do see the attraction in going on the pill and closing the door on this chapter in your life. I don't think that if you do this, you will one day regret not having more kids. The children you have will fill your heart with love for a lifetime.

[Linus]

Hey Tertia

It is clear that the longing for another child is there. Why not give it a try? Like the others have said, you'll always wonder. You might just want to decide upfront how far you'll go and how long you'll try before calling it a day if it doesn't happen. Question... how does Marko feel about it?

[Egg Donor (ret.)]

(Apologies in advance for what I'm sure will be a very long comment)

Tertia -

I love that you're so honest about this. And I will probably be repeating stuff I said before, here, but I say to go back on the pill.

Looking at your list of reasons to stay off, many of them have to do with the trying/infertile part. Infertility hasn't won because you have two beautiful kids already. I think really, that point ties up with the "want to have a normal pregnancy" thing. If anything, the miscarriages suggest that is NOT going to happen, and even if it did - even if everything was perfect, healthy, and beautiful - you would be worried and freaked out the whole time because of everything that has happened. You couldn't suddenly become the young, pleasantly pregnant, first time mom.

Two of your other points go with this and the infertility thing. Knowing you as best I do, I think it is fair to say that infertility is not just a big part of your life (not just suffering through it, but the support group, the egg donor business, the blog), but also a big part of your identity. If you stop trying to get pregnant, then you are eliminating the infertility factor from being an issue in most ways - if you decide not to get pregnant, infertility is no longer relevant. Your points about missing "trying" and the pill being so final are both very honest comments that seem to truly capture the anxiety about losing that part of your identity.

So it seems like there are two doubly big reasons in your keep trying column: (1) I want to be normal, and (2) infertility is part of who I am. Those are awfully closely related. A very significant majority of your motivation to keep trying seems to be centered around your personal / psychological issues with infertility. Of course I know you love Kate and Adam to death and you would love another baby and I am NOT trying to minimize that. However, ultimately, I don't think having another one will satisfy any of those issues that would drive you to do it, even if you get pregnant right away and have a perfect pregnancy. And then, in the end, you would have a beautiful baby, but also all of the cons and, I'd bet, the issues wouldn't be resolved.

You should be happy. And everyone would support you having another baby. However, you've been honest in these reasons and I think you should also be honest with yourself in knowing that if you do decide to try to have one, a lot of it will be because you are striving for some personal satisfaction independent of having the baby. I bet if all these issues that I pointed out were gone, your desire wouldn't be nearly as strong. So maybe a better consideration is whether you are willing to accept all the cons for yourself and your family in order to battle your psychological infertility issues, knowing that much of what you're searching for is unattainable, but just because you need the satisfaction of trying. People have had children for lesser reasons, but you may want to recast your decision in this light.

[Wyliekat]

One of my rules of life is that you should never be outnumbered by your children, so that was my strong instinct when first confronted like this.

Bottom line - you are happy with your life. A lot of your reasons for not giving up seemed rooted in fear of regret, rather than an urge to actually make more babies.

You seem to be thriving right now. How bad can a four-person family be?

[Lisa]

Ah Tertia, this post speaks to me so much. Aside from the infertility and the miscarriages (I've had one, but there's a big difference in my mind between one and several), we have a lot in common on this issue. I turn 40 on Thursday, we have two young children (do we really want to change that?), money, risk of birth defects, and so many other intangibles similar to the ones you've mentioned. All the pros and cons really weigh on me too, and I too think my biggest fear is regret. What if we make a decision to stop and regret it later in life? Sigh.

In our case, the decision we've made so far has been a non-decision...to stay off the pill and let whatever is to happen, well, happen. That is the answer I chose in the poll as well, though it's not *necessarily* what I think you should do (mainly because you do want to get off the fence in this case). I know I'm probably not helping much, but know that you are not alone in this (even the morbid thoughts of "what if something happens to" your other children).

Smooches (no hugs) to you as you wrestle with this decision! xxx

[Darkchocolate]

ok here is the deal I cant answer without reflecting on my personal experience. I am a mother of two. girl 16 boy 11

Gees I feel like saying been there done that and bought the T-shirt..... then lost the damn t-shirt.

when I turned 40 I went through the same debate and finaly by mistake (uncoscious mistake) got preggers. then I lost the baby

I am now on a mirena. Its quite firmly lodged but I do so yearn for a baby but I am also happy with the status co as well. So I am in some kind of limbo. until a new niece/nephew is born or until my grand kids come along ... either way it will be a long wait

so my vote is that you do what will make you the feel less regretful. however if you do try for a baby and miscary then do close the door permanently and accept that it was not meant to be.

goodluck

[Charlise]

This is based on what LITTLE I know about you, and how much I know about me.

I think you need to move past the "having another kid" stage of your life. First, you had a VERY difficult time with Adam. Kate - not so much, but Adam is finally sleeping a bit on his own. Second, You are continually saying how you don't have enough time for all of the people in your life. Adding another baby does not change that - and one more child is not just a third more work - it is much much more than that. It is hard to move past the early years mothering role. It is hard to watch your kids grow up a bit where they don't need you as fiercely as they did when they were infants. It is hard to say goodbye to fertility and that stage of your life...but you have to. If not now, then you will have to soon...and I don't see you moving on after the next one or the next or the next. That longing will always be there. It is part of you, and you have to learn how to let it go. I would imagine it is harder for you because of your business - dealing with infertility and donors and all of that on a daily basis - but I think you should consider your family complete.

[Laura from Ga]

Hi Tertia,
When I got married, my husband and I always said that we wanted a big family - 4 kids! After the first one - our plans changed. Three years into our marriage we had our daughter. She is now 14, she was a very sickly baby and once the sickness was gone we dealt with a loving but very very difficult child. Diagnosed at 6 1/2 with ADHD and a Learning disability. She required so much time and attention that when she was 4 we decided that she would be our only child - I just didn't think that I could go thru all of the hard times again - not to mention the strain of the frequent dr. visits and therapy on our finances. As time went by, things got easier with her and we got a little careless with birth control ( I can't take the pill - makes me so so sick). I found myself pregnant when she was 6 1/2. It was not a happy time at all...I cried for the first 6 months of the pregnancy - before excepting that he was coming and we needed to get ready. When he was born, he was the easiest and sweetest baby, and I had the worst guilt because I hadn't wanted him. He just turned 7 and he has been the best little boy ever! So easy, so laid back. After he was born, and I saw that it didn't have to be difficult ( and the bad days with my daughter where getting fewer and farther between), I entertained the thought of another. My husband on the other hand was pretty sure that he didn't want anymore. When my son was 3, the urge to have another child went away and I spoke to my doctor about tying my tubes. This was in October of 2004. My insurance was changing in January ( for the better) and he told me to call in January and we would plan to tie my tubes then. At the end of November, I realized that my period was late so I took a test and sure enough...I was pregnant with # 3. While it wasn't planned, I found myself excited and happy at the thought of having another. She was born right before my 36th birthday. I feel that my family is complete. I have never given another thought of having any more as I feel totally complete. I love and adore all of my children... they are the loves of my life...that being said having 3 is HARD...REALLY HARD. It does change the dynamic of the family. I feel so torn at times as I try to be the best mom to all of my kids but most of the time there just isn't enough hours in the day. And I have NEVER been more tired in my life. She is almost 3 and I still don't have any "me" time. It is alot harder than I ever thought. We also need a larger house and had to buy a bigger car. All of that being said - I'm so glad she is here. I can't imagine our lives without her and I wouldn't change it...it has just been and continues to be a huge change in our life that we have to adapt to. All of the stuff like the house and the car you can work out...make the decision based on what's in your heart...if you truly want another, then you should go for it...just don't underestimate how life changing this is going to be. Good luck with whatever you decide.
xoxox,
Laura

[stephanie]

Well, really only you and Marko can decide what's right for you- but it sounds like the biggest reason you want another is because you are afraid you'll regret not having another later. I think if, all things considered, you're really happy with your life now, then I'd go ahead and close the chapter on that piece and move on.
Or, alternatively, go on the pill and see- you can go off it in 6 months or so if you change your mind.

[Jesse]

Everything you have written makes me think you should stop where you are...your reasons for stopping seem to outweigh your reasons for trying again... and yet, I answered go off the pill in the poll. I had IVF twins and an accidental "natural" third child so even though you told me to ignore my own situation, I guess I didn't. I loved having a "normal" pregnancy (although, truth be told, my medical standards, it may have been slightly less normal). I loved not worrying every second of the pregnancy that it was my ONLY chance at children. And I LOVE this third baby. I remember confessing to my husband before our third that in some ways, I wanted to have a third, just to see if we could do it on our own. And that felt so wrong and ridiculous. That is not the reason to have a child. And yet, somehow, that's how I felt. Of course, when it really did happen unexpectedly (kind of a long story), I completely freaked. And I must say, there are days when the twins seem to be at a point where we can do more with them because they are finally manageable, that we honestly do ask, "what if"... But god I love this third child and can't imagine not having him. And he is so much easier than it was having twins. So I guess, I think trying for the third is a good idea. Life is about taking risks. But it's also important to know that if you try and it doesn't work, life is already good and that hasn't changed! Sorry for rambling! One more thing - it feels nice "knowing" I'm done. There is no doubt in my mind now. (which is a good thing since I had my third at 41!)

[Kate]

I agree with everyone else, it's such a personal decision that only you and your husband can make it.

That said, as someone with three children, three is not just harder than 2, it is a LOT harder than 2. The adults are outnumbered when you get to 3 so you might want to weigh that a little more heavily than a 'B'. :-)

I have friends with 4 kids, 5 kids and 4 kids (no twins) and they've all said the hardest transition was from 2 to 3 because of being outnumbered.

Good luck!

[Tripsmom]

1 child changes your life
2 children changes your life & car
3 children changes your life & car & house!!!!!
I love all 3 my girls but boy-oh-boy there are many days I envy moms with 1 or 2 children. If we had 2 we could afford private schooling - with three it is just outside our reach - get the picture - think carefully!

[Amy]

It's funny that Stef said that she reads this as you wanting another baby. I read it and think, "She's done, she just doesn't want to close the door."

Even though I voted in the poll, I think you're the only person who can truly make this decision. Well, you and Marko. What does he think? Do the kids have an opinion?

Amy @ http://prettybabies.blogspot.com

[Tripsmom]

1 child changes your life
2 children changes your life & car
3 childre changes your life & car & house.
I love all 3 my girls but boy-oh-boy there are many days I envy moms with 1 or 2 children. If we only had 2 we could provide private schooling now it is just outside our reach. Think carefully!

[Tripsmom]

1 child changes your life
2 children changes your life & car
3 childre changes your life & car & house.
I love all 3 my girls but boy-oh-boy there are many days I envy moms with 1 or 2 children. If we only had 2 we could provide private schooling now it is just outside our reach. Think carefully!

[Erica]

Honestly the fact that you are posting this elaborate post with a spreadsheet etc tells me you want to try for another. There must be a pretty big part of you that is still thinking about this often. Whenever someone tells me they are on the fence I say listen to your heart, forget what anyone thinks and just listen to your heart. Now if finaces were a concern to the point that hey, we can't feed or clothe or kids then it would be different. Your children can share rooms etc though, you are ok even if you'd like more. I think you already have your answer just by the fact that you posted this. You'll never regret the children you have, you may always regret not trying though.
I wish you luck in deciding my friend.

[Laura from GA]

Exactly Kate - 3 is A LOT HARDER! My sister has 4 kids and she said to me 2 to 3 is so so hard.3 to 4 wasn't as hard for some reason. I didn't believe her, I couldn't see how one more would be so much harder...but it is.
Also, I have friends who are having their first children in their late 30's and early 40's and I am so happy for them, but for me being pregnant and giving birth at almost 36 was A LOT harder than being pregnant and giving birth in my 20's. I wouldn't want to go thru that again.

As others have said, only you and Marko can decide what is right for your family and whatever you decide will be right for your family! Good Luck!

[Krissy Poopyhands]

I would say that your list above clearly tips in the balance of going on the pill and putting the babymaking chapter in your life behind you. I would say go for that.

Except that these posts keep popping up. They keep coming up. The possibility of "one more" keeps enticing. Somewhere, in your heart or in your head, you are not officially done, and I think that would still be true if you were to get your tubes tied.

Now, I can't see myself not wanting "just one more" so only you know how you can balance that need out with reality, but from everything you've said you already regret not having another one in your arms. I don't think that regret will go away.

Can you live with it?

I think you should have another one because you want another one, and that is why we have babies. Because we want them.

[VHMPrincess]

I have 3. Adding the third was not harder than having only 2. And as they get older, it just gets easier. We would have four except there is NO WAY we could afford it.

You can very easily get back to the easier/more carefree life after having a third child. You CANNOT go back later and add the third child if you change your mind.

I look at it this way - a CHILD is a small price to pay for all the extra work they are for the first year or so. One year (or so) of really hard work for a lifetime with another child! Seriously, if we could afford it, we'd have at least one more (and yes, we have trouble getting pregnant as well). There is no naturally for us.

[spoiledonlychild]

As humans, we spend so much of our lives trying to fill an empty space. There is always one more thing we need to be happy. And once we get that ... there is something else we need. When you were going through infertility before Adam and Kate, could you have imagined having two healthy children and thinking that infertility had won? Infertility clearly has not won. I think going through pregnancy attempts, miscarriages and lots more emotional trauma would just be giving in to that constant need to have something, anything, more than what you already have. You have so much. Sit with it, soak it up, and let go of what you don't have. No matter what path you choose in life, there could always be regrets. Just choose to let go of them and accept what is.

[Andrea]

I'm not personally invested in whether or not you have a third kid, so this is strictly from my POV and you can feel free to disregard it. I'd get some sort of contraception. You probably will have some regrets about not having a third kid, since there's always that little nagging "what if?" feeling. But frankly it seems like it was hellish for you to get and stay pregnant even with the full force of the medical establishment behind you, so (and this will sound awful meanspirited) what you're giving up isn't all that likely to happen anyway.

Your spreadsheet points out that there are significant advantages to doing this. Monetary stability, no more miscarriage misery, and just the good "okay, decision made" vibe. You will be giving up the babylove, yes, but there's a lot more good parenting times still to come with Adam and Kate. I LOVE it now that my kids (9 + 13) are getting to be more like actual human beings. And yes, I do occasionally oogle a baby and think "Hmm"... but husband's had the snip, and upon sober reflection I'm *really* glad to be through that part of my life.

The age thing doesn't actually come into it that much for me. People are tougher than they think they are, plus I was a very young mom and took a lot of crap for that, too, and it all worked out. It's not like you'll be eighty like Cary Grant or anything:)

[Jessica]

Tertia, I read your spreadsheet as saying you love your life as it is, with your two healthy adorable kids, and the real reason for wanting a third is hypothetical .. "perhaps" you'll regret it when you're 70. Honestly, I doubt it. You'll be happy to have Adam and Kate and, God willing, a whole playground full of grandkids. Nor does infertility win, because you have Adam and Kate, nah nah nah nah infertility. Go on the pill, and relax into that beautiful life you've carved out for your family. My opinion.

[Janine]

Unfortunely no amount of polls or advice from anyone else will make this decision any easier for you. You know, in your heart of hearts, what you really want to do, now you just have to admit to it.

The fact that you are even considering it obviously means that, regardless of how happy you are with your life right now, there is some part of you that wants another child. That urge shouldn't just be dismissed without some serious thought (which you're givin it;o)

My point? Good Luck!

[Lauren]

Tertia,

I have that 3rd normal one (not counting my lost ones before) and it is very special. If your heart is open and you have doubts, just go for it. For me I had a limited time I wanted to try, after that it was over - I would give yourself a time frame that you are open and after that go on the pill so you have the time frame set.

I don't know but I can say having that full term baby after preemies as well as an easier pregnancy (whatever that is since mine was still high risk) was a healing experience. Not the reason you should do it but it doesn't sound like you are ready to close the door on another baby and if so keep it open for now. It doens't mean you'll get one but later you'll know you had the chance.

Good luck whatever you decide.

[Shandra]

I guess I just believe that every child really should be almost desperately hoped for.* If a spreadsheet's involved at all, I'm not sure I would produce one.

* That is not to say that it can't work out otherwise - I think most of us will love children that are ours, planned or not, stressed or not. I just think if one is making a deliberate decision, there should be an aching gap there. Not just fear of regret in some distant future.

[Amanda]

If I were you, I would try for another.

Give yourself one full calendar year full of hope and maybe heartache to try for one more baby. If, at the end of the year, you are pregnant with a healthy baby, hooray!

If no baby comes out of this year of trying, you still win. You'll have given yourself closure, time to come to terms with the end of your childbearing years, and best of all - Adam and Kate.

All the best to you and whatever you decide.
xoxo

[Jan]

I think you could have a dozen children and when the youngest got to about 3, you'd have that yearning for another baby. Being a mommy becomes part of who you are -- a really great part. Giving up that role is hard. Of course you're still a mommy as your kids get older, but it isn't the same.

That's was my gut reaction to your lists -- that yearning is still there. You're happy with your life the way it is and the way it's heading, but you still have that lingering yearning.

I remember my mom (who parented seven children over the years, though only gave birth to two), in her late 40s, long after she was "done", still speaking of that yearning. It doesn't necessarily go away.

So I voted for the pill. Borrow somebody else's newborn as often as you can to get that baby fix.

(Of course I could be totally talking out of my ass, because I have two children and desperately want to have another, in spite of the fact that it would mean a new car and probably a total change of employment status.)

[Kathy B.]

OK -- I was going to write a long, thought provoking, comment on the pros and cons of various family sizes.

But, bottom line, I really think, based on the fact that you continue to struggle with the decision, that you want another child. If you were truly happy with being a family of four, you wouldn't be weighing the pros and cons.

[Whichever]

Unlike others here, to me your post sounds "I´m done". Maybe I´m reading it with my own mind frame weighting on it, but I think I would go on the pill if I were you. I´d close that door and enjoy life with A&K and all the new posibilities opening before you right now. Age(with two small kids already), stress on your marriage and family dinamics would be the critical points to me. You have before you some wonderful and easier years ahead, and things will only get easier and more fun as soon as your kids grow a little more. Even thinking of trying for a new baby scares and exhausts me... but of course, that is me. You´ll reach the right decision for you and your family and we will all cheering you whatever the way you choose :)

[Rosie]

I think Tertia that were I in your situation, given your age and finances and committments to others, that I would sadly close this door and focus my energies on what comes next - enjoying Adam and Kate to the fullest as they enter that wonderful pre-k stage and re-establishing your bond with your husband as your children become less dependent on you.

[moo]

Two pieces of assvice:

1.) from my own experience: you always regret the things you DON'T DO more than the ones you do.

2.) from a very wise woman: you will never regret having the children you have

Take those however you want to interpret them.

[Elizabeth]

I've been lurking on your blog for so long - and it just seems obvious to me that although you have many reasons why it makes sense not to - you want another baby. And sometimes we just have to take a deep breath and leap, despite all the spreadsheets and reasoning and new cars and money.

That being said, whatever you choose, no judgment here.

[21stCenturyMom]

I couldn't vote because this is not a binary situation.

I have 1 thing to tell you that may or may not impact your thinking.

The urge to have another child is very strong in women in their 40s. It was strong enough for me to get my tubes tied because I had 3 kids and was single and just didn't want to go through having an infant again but I still felt myself wanting to get pregnant. Make sense?

I was not encumbered by having had a hard time getting pregnant, multiple IVFs, high risk twin pregnancy, etc. etc. but it sounds to me like that doesn't really matter. Every woman I know who has kids has the urge to have another baby in her 40s even if she really does not want another child. Apparently it comes with the territory.

[Nicole]

Let me be of no help at all -
My gut response is that if I were you I would try for another baby.

To me it sounds like you REALLY long for another child. I would love to see you have another baby b/c I know what a loving, devoted mom you would be to the new baby and continue to be to A&K. I would LOVE to see you experience a new baby w/the confidence and experience of a seasoned mom and the same is true for Marko as well.

However, I also know that you are a driven, ambitious woman with a predisposition to single-mindedness. I would HATE to see this process consume you. Your aversion to 'see what happens' scares me. Complete control in life is an illusion (esp. in parenthood). Hope I don't seem like a total arse.

Thinking of you as you wrestle with these thoughts and feelings.

[Mama-Beans]

When you are done having children, you KNOW it. You feel it in your soul. You can't imaging your life with more children. There is no "pros and cons" list because your very heart demands you to stop.

That is not where you are.

[Laurie]

The wonderful thing about the pill is that it is not a permanent choice, it's not as if you or Marko were getting the big snip-snip done.

Keeping that in mind, I would go on the pill for a period of time (3 months, 6 months) and NOT think about having another child during that time- as much as is possible anyway. Once the time period is up, take another look at the spreadsheet and see how you feel. The urge may have gone, it may have intensified, or something else may have happened in your life to help clarify your feelings.

One thing I didn't see in your spreadsheet though is the physical risk of another pregnancy- and possibly leaving Marko as a single parent to 2 or 3 children. Pregnancy is risky and dangerous; not as much as it was 100 years ago, but not-so-great things still happen.

[cooler*doula]

I wish I could pick A or B for you.

My sense is that you're not done, but I think it's also true that that yearning may just always be there for some mothers...

I don't know...

And as a previous commenter said: there's no moment when the notion of control must be abandoned as when one has a child...

It's so hard... Let's talk about that bucket of cash instead...
;)

[goodsandwich]

I THINK I am reading that you like your life now, it would be more difficult to provide all that you want to provide your children if you had more, and you are worried about regretting it at a late age.
I think this is a very normal decision for all women to agonize over at this age, no matter our obstetric history. It is normal to grieve the end of our childbearing time -- but that grief does not go on forever. It really doesn't.
It sounds to me like you are done having children, but not done trying to have a little bit of "normalcy" in getting pregnant/being fertile/etc. I can't blame you for wanting a chance to do this without the terrible stress you've endured in previous pregnancies/births.
My being mostly sure that I am ready to stop after one, may be coloring my reading of your pro/con list. But I think I am reading it right.

[Nancy]

Considering you've closed that door before but it keeps reopening, I'd say you want another kid. Have one, if you can, but I think you're also in a good headspace to cope if it doesn't happen.

[sheilah]

I think you should give it one more go. Just go off the pill and see what happens. All of the negatives will be moot if you are able to hold a baby in your arms. If you get pg and, this is critical, STAY pg, you will never regret it. If you don't get pg...eh.

Since you are still wondering now you will always wonder.

I wish you all the luck in the world, sweetheart. You are the one who introduced me to blogging. I think of you as a dear friend. I wish you every happiness.

[LaurieC]

You need to decide this for yourself, what you really want, what you will regret. I will relate my experience in how I decided we were done. We had some trouble conceiving, due to endometriosis. We tried for my first for a year and a half. I ovulated regularly, we timed everything perfectly. I was one of those who got pg after the HSG cleared out my tubes. My first had horrible reflux, slept worse than your Adam (she would wake up several times a night screaming, sometimes for hours at a time, never slept more than 2 hours at a stretch until 7 months - "colic" did not go away until 7-8 months). I waited to have another, because the first was such a traumatic experience. Waiting was not good for the endo, of course. When we started trying again, she was 2.5. I had trouble ovulating then had 6 week long cycles and discovered one of my tubes was scarred shut. Did IUIs and clomid, no luck. Then scheduled a lap - I got pg on one of my 6 week long cycles while waiting for the surgery date. After the 2 girls, I wasn't willing to go back to the RE and figured whatever happened would happen. I got pg on my first cycle after having my 2nd. It had never been that easy before; I knew I was ovulating but never expected to get pg. I was so conflicted. My 2nd was only 10 months old; I felt so guilty that she would miss out on time with me. I wasn't happy. Now after 2 girls we have our son, and I couldn't imagine life without him. The family dynamics part of the argument is moot; when the baby comes the family changes and is different but not worse, by any means. The girls love their brother, even my 2nd who is only 18 months older. They fight, but she loves him tremendously.

I will say this - after my 2nd, I didn't necessarily feel done. I thought I might like 1 more but dismissed it, thinking it wouldn't be easy to get pg again. When I did get pg, dh admitted he wanted one more and wasn't sure he'd be able to talk me into it. We already had a minivan when we got pg with the third, so that wasn't an issue. We did convert our office into a bedroom, moving the office computer into the master bedroom. I mostly use a laptop in the main room, so that wasn't an issue. After our 3rd was born, dh and I were both DONE. No doubt about it. I am glad, because I don't have any regrets or "what ifs". I know this is how our family was meant to be. Dh had a vasectomy, and neither of us regrets it. My friend just had a baby, and I have no baby lust left, whatsoever. We are totally happy; our family is complete. I have no regrets or second guesses.

Good luck in whatever you decide. If you decide you are done, you need to find a way to be at peace with it and not worry about what might have been.

[gkk]

Sorry Tertia, but I think this is one time when a table will definately not help. As much as you may like to make this desicion with your head, it has to be made by your gut. I have 3 kids, after the second I just knew there was still someone missing. Now my third is here, I could still go "just one more" but I don't have that same feeling. Only you can know whether your family is complete or not.

Just on the 2 to 3 thing, the best description I read was that it was like going from one-on-one to a zone defence. Very true.

[Bobbi]

This is such a tough decision...I feel for you struggling with it. Here are some thoughts - take them or leave them as you see fit. No time to read all the comments, so apologies in advance if I am repeating what others have already put out here...
I am the mother of 4. I was terrified to have my third, for all the reasons you described in your cons list. But I have to say, that for me (with a 4 year gap bet. my second and third) it WASN'T harder to have 3. It was truly a joy. My older 2 were big enought to really enjoy her and help me with her, and I got to be more laid back with her. And you did twin infants, so 1 will be infinitely more enjoyable...
I want you to know that you CAN do it and love it if you decide it's right for your family. But ultimately, you and Marko are the ones who have to choose. There are lots of days when I think to myself how much easier logistically everything would be with only 2. But then I catch moments with my older 2 loving on the little ones and I know why I made the choice I did.
Good luck to you!

[Woody's Girl]

Two points I'd like to make:

A. Having a 3rd child, with child 1 and child 2 being TWINS, is likely VERY different than families with 3 single-births. KWIM? Yes, your family dynamic will change, but it'll be different than you might be picturing. Adam and Kate will ALWAYS have each other, and can entertain each other (hooray!) while you spend some one-on-one time with a new baby.

B. If you are going to try for another child, I personally strongly suggest that you (knowing your personality type) don't just "see what happens." IMHO, if you want to "try" for another child, pull out the big guns and REALLY go for it! Have testing done to (at least try to) see WHY you keep miscarrying these natural pregnancies. If there's a problem on your end of things (eggs fizzled out or somesuch), then you need to ask yourself if it's important enough for you to perhaps use Nurture. Or are you determined to have a Tertia/Marko baby?

Just some food for thought. As I've said before whenever you've made a post along these lines, I really really REALLY think you aren't done yet. Otherwise, why do you keep mulling it over?

BTW, financial considerations need to be minimized in your chart. Husband and I thought we'd wait until we were "financially ready" to have a family. Then all our savings went up in smoke with 5 years of IF treatments and 2 adoptions! Yet... somehow... we have still managed to keep afloat (comfortably, and we're NOT rich). So, you'd definitely manage, too.

[Sister Mel]

Some women will ALWAYS want another baby. That longing never quite goes away. I wish I'd had 4,I said I would have 4 growing up but I have 3. If I had 4 and the last one hit three, I'd probably want a fifth.
But its about you. I say close the factory. Your life is better than its ever been. To open the 'I-want-another-baby' feeling in your life scares me shitless quite honestly. That probably sounds selfish but I can't bear for you to return to that place, be that scary person. I like this person. If you were guaranteed an easy conception, lovely scan-once-a-month (yeah right)pregnancy and delivery at 40 weeks to a perfectly lovely easy baby I would say of course do it. But, you have had such a shit time to get to the point of having 2 lovely fartbag kids. You have lovely critters, both genders, a lovely if somewhat irritating husband, great career, f'ing AMAZING sister and good health. A little bit of regret is probably part of everyones make-up and the what-if game somewhat bittersweet to play. Forget the pill, do the Mirena.

[Jenn]

This decision is completely yours - but wanted to share MY experience.

I have 5 year old twin girls conceived via IVF (we didn't have a long drawn out infertility process - I was told I couldn't conceive after developing adhesions from the removal of an ovarian cyst that destroyed one ovary and tube and twisted the other). We never used birth control (before or after) and one day several months before my girls turned 5 and I turned 40 we discovered I was impossibly pregnant. Interesting circumstances since I had one ovary and DH had testicular cancer 9 years ago and had one testicle removed ... anyway. Here I am typing and holding my 7 week old son while my daughters are finishing up Kindergarten. Very odd place to be - but I do NOT regret having the third for a minute. I worry all the time about how he will affect our well ordered existence with 2 grade schoolers or how old I'll be when he graduates or the age difference between the kids or money or how the girls will have to share a bedroom forever or even how much harder it is to get a table for 5 at a restaurant than a table for 4 but I DO NOT REGRET! I come from a family of 5 - I know its harder. Life decisions are based on a regret if you don't NOT a regret if you do basis :) Feel free to email me privately if you want to know more. GOOD LUCK with YOUR decision.

[Anna]

Not much advice from me, I think you should do what makes you -and your husband too-happy.

[tripleblessings]

My heart goes out to you, as I can see how you are struggling to make sense of this decision. Whatever you do, you and Marko MUST be happily in agreement - if not yet, then please go on the pill (or some other method) until you both agree what to do.

I can hear that you still wish for another child, but it's hard to tell how deep and serious that longing is. (I think it's hard for every couple to decide that their family is complete.) The PROs are well known to you, from your experience with Kate and Adam. However the CONs you list are very significant. The financial concerns will be long term issues, and so will the logistics of becoming a family of 5 (or more!) I am concerned for your mental, emotional and physical health. If you try again, you will be letting yourself in for at least two years of emotional roller-coaster times with TTC, pregnancy and parenting a newborn. Could be longer. Plus there will be physical stress on your body and perhaps another round of depression/anxiety, which you seem to have under control at the moment. You sometimes sound stressed, overwhelmed, or over-committed on your blog, so adding more stress to your life may have heavy repercussions on your family life and work. The risks of loss, or multiple births, or medical issues for you or the baby also must be considered, perhaps discussed with your doctor. Maybe your desire for another child outweighs all of these considerations? Or maybe not - only you and Marko can say. I really don't want to tell you what to do. Like so many other life decisions, in the end it comes down to a leap of faith and hope for the best.

I am so glad to hear that you are in a good place in your life now. I trust you to make the right decision for your family, and hope that you will find excellent support from family and friends for whatever you choose to do.

[kathleen999]

I can't say definitively that you should or shouldn't. Because I am not you. I know you want us to give you our opinions, but I think you have to look within for this.

that said, I also would like one more, but we have just gotten to 3.5 years with our twins and it is just starting to get easier. My husband says absolutely no more. Plus not sure I could anyway as I am 46 and needed IVF to have these two. But I too have the fantasy of having one more...I would love a little girl so my guys could be big brothers. I think they would love a little sister in many ways. And the idea of having one infant seems so wonderful. Maybe even get to enjoy her babyhood instead of survive it.

But then I think about the fact that my boys have had to share everything, and asking them to now share parental attention further seems unfair. If I were younger and we had more money, though, I might try it. As it is, my husband has said a resounding "NO!" and that is where we stand. No more kids. I am planning to get a tubal ligation as I can't take the pill.

Good luck making this choice and I'm sorry I can't be of more help. I do believe that people often feel their families aren't complete because they are supposed to have one more. I kind of feel that way too, but for some reason I just don't think I need to push for another baby. Probably because my husband is so against it.

[Lisa]

I've been reading your blog for over three years (maybe four???) now, so I feel like I know you pretty well. So I'm going to be completely honest with you, which is what I think you want?

I feel like there's really only one way to solve this -- deep in your heart, do you feel like you need/really really want to have another baby? Take a moment...

If you do, then go for it and don't look back.

If you don't, that is ok! You have two amazing children. Parents of only one child live full and happy lives and spend their lives wonderfully devoted to their child.

It seems to me that some of your choices to HAVE another child would be based on fear, rather than based on what you really want -- i.e. the fear of having regrets in the future, the fear that you'll never triumph fully over infertility, the fear you'll never have a normal pregnancy. I guess I think it's important that this decision be made as moving towards something good, rather than moving away from something bad.

Overall, if I am reading you correctly, it seems like you do want to stop, and that's really ok. We'll support you no matter what choice you make!

[Andrea]

Let me give you a briefer of my story so that I will have some street cred with you. I think the mindset of an infertile, current or former, IS different from the mindset of someone that has never suffered this particular affliction. I am "in your shoes", so to speak.

My story: Married at 30. Started TTC at 31, got pg 2nd month. Yay! Had healthy boy 39 weeks later. When boy was 18 months, started TTC again. Got pg 1st month. Yay! Miscarried at 11 weeks. Boo. Tried for the next THREE AND A HALF YEARS, incl. RE, lots of $$$, surguries and procedures, and finally got pg again. Miscarried at 5 weeks. Major boo. Moved on to adoption. Adopted daughter from China in 2006. Turned 40 in 2007. Happy with life.

In November 2007, six and a half years after we'd started to TTC #2, and three years after we'd stopped trying, turned up pregnant on our own (at this point hadn't used birth control for six + years). Freak out. Am currently 33 weeks pregnant with an apparently healthy boy. Still amazed every day that this is happening.

SO. I went back and forth on the same topic you are doing so on for years. We never had a "you definitely won't get pregnant" diagnosis, so we always thought it was a remote possibility, but very, very remote. Didn't entertain it seriously. BUT. I had already made a decision that when I hit 42 years old, we would go on some sort of birth control. I didn't want a surprise baby at 42, 43, 44, etc. Just was NOT for me. Old mom, high risk, etc. I had drawn the "line in the sand" so to speak, and was ready to take action when I hit that birthday. In one sense, it put off the decision for awhile, but in another sense, it gave me peace to know I wouldn't have to continue living in that headspace of "what if" indefinitely. It can be an agonizing headspace to live in, can't it? Full of hope, dissappointment, conflicted emotion, it really is exhausting.

I got lucky, apparently, or was miraculously blessed, as we see it. I am "one of those" women. One of those I envied so fervently for so many years. So bizarre to be here.

I know the feeling of not wanting to let IF win, though. Even when we adopted, I felt that a little in the back of my head. Hate IF for the way it can be victorious over a person despite their best attitude.

So I guess my advice is for you and Marko to draw that line in the sand - an age, an event, whatever - a little bit out into the future, so that you have time for the idea to take permanance in your mind. Then let things be until that line is reached, and be at peace that it was a decision made with the best intentions for your family.

And in the meantime, hope against all hope that you get a miracle.

[Amy]

Tertia,
I hear you in your struggles on whether to try to have another child. My concern would be your mental health. I found your blog via A Little Pregnant when you were pregnant with A & K. I didn't know you then, but it broke my heart a little to see your frequent posts where you wrestled with dead baby thoughts and HAD to have scans just for mental health sake. I know you have had a hard time finding the right antidepressant. I am just afraid trying and failing, or trying and succeeding for that next child would put you right back in that dark place. It would have an affect on your family, much like Sister Mel mentioned above. As many have said, none of us can tell us what is right for you and Marko and the kidlets. Even though you have that yearning, please consider carefully the wear and tear this process places on you. You have been through so much and it is so good that you are in a good place now-I wouldn't want that gone. Take care, and good luck in whatever your decision is. We all care for you and yours.

[Liz]

I think you want another child, but like you stated it might cause financial problems, and you might not be happy about that. eg: can't get things you want for kids or yourself; have to cut down on the wine. Reality is that you have two great kids and you are in a good place, enjoy what you have.

[wendy]

It seems to me that you want to have another child. I myself, do not want anymore, under any circumstances - and I KNOW THAT. I hear your heart yearning for one more - at least try - life is short.

[Melissia]

Tertia,
My own personal experience is that that want doesn't go away. I tried to subjugate the desire with all the reasons you described, but to no avail, so we have contacted your lovely doctor as we waited too long to use our own eggs(my own cautionary tale). Email me with any red headed donors, have been waiting in hopes that you have gotten at least a couple. I also have some health issues, but have spent the last 6 months working my but off getting into shape. My kids are much older than Kate and Adam, so would tell you to do it now instead of waiting.
I really thought that if I waited long enough the overwhelming desire would go away, but it didn't and after my mom died I realized that life was too short not to do what was my heart's desire. So this desire you have, if you strip away all the rationalizations and all the pros and cons, what would you do? Would you have another? If your answer is yes, then you have your answer.

[Heather]

We were in this situation as well, although we don't have twins already, just one girl. We've decided to work with the RE to try to have another. I also can't wait until this is all over, as we've been married 14 years and have been working with this RE for 9 years off an on. I do love him, but we have a 7 year old and took some time off after a late 1st trimester miscarriage. We're now moving on from OI/IUI to IVF. I'm not that happy about it, but I'm 37 and want to give it my all to be able to close this chapter of my life. I feel we're meant to have more children, but I know when we have this child, this will be my last.

Good luck with your decision.

[Erica]

I had to comment again. It's interesting to me that you are considering the pill. Isn't that delaying the inevitable decision? Would you be happier making a firm decision and doing a tubal or Marko a vasectomy not putting the decision on hold longer?
I think Krissy Poopypants is wise. I couldn't agree with her more. People who don't really want another baby do not make spreadsheets with weighted answers. They do not have many posts about should they or shouldn't they? People who don't want another baby don't think about it that much. I think this post very clearly spells out what you want. So I think the next step is deciding what you are going to do about what you want.

[zenoma]

I don't think you'd ever regret TRYING. Three is lovely...a family of five! (This is my situation so maybe I'm biased!) You're family dynamic will change but in a good way. You won't love A&K less, but even more! It will be wonderful to see A&K be big brother and sis to a little one.

So bottom line, you won't regret trying, but you may regret never trying. Look in your heart. You certainly feel content, but are you complete? The fact that you are even questioning it, means you may need to at least try. You are very blessed in life so no matter what happens, you will already have a happy ending.

[Rae]

In a similiar situation as you wondering if i 'could' have another one. Adopted then got pregnant and all the sticken IVF's I did and just like that I got pregnant?? I say outloud 'no more kids b/c i don't want to live in that is this the month i'll be pregnant? and being disappointed when i find out i'm not'. I don't want to revisit those many chapters of my life. But like you, knowing it can happen makes me think well????.....
However, after reading your posts i really think it sounds like you are happy with your life as it is. We can beat ourselves up with the 'what if's' and if you're not thinking the what if's with children it would be something else in your life.
Love your nieces and nephews that will come along in the years to come. You can spoil them and send them home!!
Love reading your blog!

[Melanie]

Hi Tertia,
First off, let me say it is none of my business. At all. But if I were you, I would not feel okay with not trying for another one. After your last MC, you seemed (to me - I could be wrong) like you really wanted another one. And I know that personally I would always feel like I should have tried again. I personally think three is the perfect number of kids, and I think that after twins, I'd want to just have a single. I also think A&K would really enjoy being big brother/big sister, and I LOVE the dynamic between siblings. And I understand all of your reasons to not try, I really really do. But the main reason for me? I feel like you feel like I do about just *wanting* one more. And I know that, me, personally? I wouldn't be happy unless I tried for that one more.

Whatever you decide, your readers are right here with you. Whatever you decide is best for you, is what's best for you. No questions.

**ps - I know its controversial, but even though I'm an infertile, I too would terminate if I knew I was carrying a child with a problem. No questions. It would suck, and I'd feel awful about it, but I'd do it.

[mamagenerica]

Tertia, I don't know what the right decision for you and your family will be, although I think your retired egg donor got hold of something very true in her comment up there. But for what it's worth, I've decided that my own quota is full at two. I have two fantastic daughters and I know that if I were to have another child I would love him or her unreservedly: but. I'm nearly 40, and I'm just not up for another two or three years of disrupted days and nights and 24-hour dependence, even with a nanny. I know, call me a wuss. But also, now that my younger daughter is three it feels like my own life, all the not-mom bits of me, is starting to open up again. And the brutal fact is that we bring children into our lives so they can move away from us and build lives and families of their own, eventually. Almost from the day they're born we have to start letting go of them, which is why every milestone is so bitter-sweet. And that means, as moms we had better put some work into our not-mom personas because that is going to have to help sustain us in the long run. It's your thing about what bring us meaning in our lives, I guess -- kids do, but so do other things and we need to nurture those as well. ANYTHING could disappear tomorrow, so there's no point worrying about it. Life will either klap us or it won't, all we can do is try to grow strong enough to survive when it happens.

And yes, there's the money thing - with two kids we can just afford private schools, with three there's no chance. Aaaaand then there's the carbon footprint/ overpopulation thing, I wouldn't feel good about adding to that problem. AND my kids are so delightful now, I am loving being able to learn and grow and do stuff with them; another baby would disrupt all of that.

So that's the way I've dealt with it. As you can see I've thought about it a lot :-). Good luck with your own decision, it does not sound like an easy one. I suspect you wouldn't think of yourself as the type, but have you considered talking to a counsellor about it? It does help sometimes to have a neutral sounding-board.

[Becky]

Tertia, only you can make that decision! Maybe it's okay to realize that you aren't going to get a magical signal that you are done - maybe not everyone 'just knows.'
Becky

[Shelley]

A very wise friend recently said to me, "I have come to the conclusion that issues surrounding fertility and reproduction are difficult pretty much as long as one is in one's childbearing years, kwim? I know very few people who have complete certainty as to family size, etc., and even if they do, they still struggle with how to ensure that they keep to the plan (the most certain ones have DHs who had vasectomies, and tubes tied, and even then, they sometimes wonder if they did the right thing). It's just a tough decision!" At the same time, IMO anyone who doesn't have at least a bit of ambivalence about having kids isn't being realistic.

Myself, I'm 40 in January, have one wonderful daughter who's four, and have had two late first-trimester mc's and subsequent D&C's (and a chemical, just for fun). My story pales in comparison to what you've gone through, of course. But I just can't see putting my heart on the line like that again, and I'm getting to be OK with that. I guess my point is, if you decide not to go for it, you will not always feel this conflicted. I swear.

[Yvette]

Hi Tertia, I have never commented before, but I have been reading your blog daily for almost 2 years. I had my first child at 21 after only trying for 3 months, the second one was not as easy and he was born 7 years later. My second birth was very traumatic for me and I had complications and as a result I got VERY depressed. My husband and I spoke about it and I decided that I never wanted to go through that again,so he had a vasectomy about 2 months after our son was born. My "baby" turns 7 on Friday and I am yearning for another child. What makes it worse is that almost every woman I see iether has a baby or is pregnant and it breaks my heart knowing that I will never have another baby. I say go for it, you could never regret having another baby but you can regret never trying!

[Farmgirl]

Tertia, what worries me about this is every now and then you do a post about No.3 and then try to rationalise why not to and say you're going to move on. And then a few months down the line, it all repeats itself again. This tells me that you are simply not done.

My son is 5 and we've been trying for no 2 for 3 yrs now. At times I've often questioned my motivations; wondered whether I really do want another or should I just forget it and get on with my life? The answer is always "Yes, I do want another baby". It would be practically and rationally the logical choice not to, but the emotion and threat of regret always win! I always find myself talking about our "kids" (though we still only have one) and "when we..." Do you do the same?

For me a thousand reasons not to have another could never outweigh the one reason to go for it and have another baby: because we want another child.

Finally, the only person that needs to be answering your poll and questionaire is Marko. He has been through it all with you before, he needs to want it too and you need his support if you're going to go ahead with having another baby.

For what it's worth, you have the support system, you have/can make the means & you're one tough cookie: I think you should go for it.

Good luck
xxx

[Sakoro]

Looking at your rational spreadsheet, it naturally leads to going on the pill and forgetting the idea of additional children. But of course you can't ignore the emotional component.

My idea of the perfect family size is two children, so maybe you shouldn't trust my opinion. I am an only child so I guess I might not understand the benefits of 3+ like you do, coming from a family of four.

That said, I feel that you have so much to contribute to your community, South Africa and infertile women and having an additional child would definately take away from that. Is there another way you can scratch the baby itch, maybe by helping children in the community and/or spending time with and connecting with your neices and nephews? You often say that you feel overwhelmed and don't have enough time for career, family and your other projects and another baby will just make this more difficult.

Personally, I wouldn't do it, but I'm not you.

[Scout]

I'm definitely getting the vibe that you would really like to have another child, not the other way around.

Let me put it this way -- that whole list you posted? I could have written most of the same things, but my conclusion would have been not to have another child --and I only have one. The fact that you still have the yearning to do it all again really speaks volumes to me.

[Jamie]

I didn't think I would have any more kids after my twins, who are almost three, but I am pregnant with #3, due in september, and I am very excited to be having one more (we are done after this one). Though this one was a bit of a surprise, not really planned, I feel like our family is now going to be complete. I now realize I would be kicking myself if I did not get the chance to have just one more baby (and I'm so looking forward to the experience of having just ONE baby to look after this time...piece of cake after 2 colicky twins!)

But that is just my personal experience. You go with your gut and do what you think is right for your family. Don't let financial factors weigh too much on your decision, because we are dirt poor going into our 3rd, but we will manage. Having our family of 5 is more important to us right now than living like the rich and famous, which I doubt we would never be able to do if we were childless anyway. So, if your heart is telling you to go for it, I say be fruitful & multiply, girlfriend!

[Beret]

IMO you should quit while you are ahead. My husband and I have 2 wonderful kids and he got a vasectomy last month. While part of me did wonder and want a third, I knew it would be a stretch financially and a big stressor on our marriage. Our youngest is a month younger than Adam and Kate and life has gotten into such a nice rhythm. We sleep. We are off bottles and diapers. We are able to spend more time with each other, and things are just great.

If it will be a stretch financially and test your marriage, is that fair to Adam and Kate?

I think no matter when we stop having kids we always kind of wonder what it would have been like to have another one. But we all have to stop sometime.

You have a beautiful family, enjoy them! JMHO of course, you will follow your heart.

[Beret]

IMO you should stop now and enjoy what you have. Of course, we could all try for one more child and if it worked out the child would be loved and cherished and we would wonder what we ever did without him/her. But we also should consider what financial stress and marital stress does to the kids who are already here.

My husband and I made the decision for him to get a vasectomy last month. We have 2 beautiful kids who are healthy and happy. Our youngest is a month younger than Adam and Kate, and we are now sleeping well, through with diapers and bottles, able to spend more quality time together, etc.

We can afford college in the future, travel, things the kids need. Part of us wanted a third child, but to be fair to the two we already have we decided to be a little more financially stable and enjoy what we have.

My vote is for you to go on the pill and enjoy the beautiful family you have created. Good luck!

[Meli]

I think maybe it's a hard decision because you're not ready to close this chapter yet. It seems to me you do want another child or at least want to try for another child. And what does Marco feel? Your answer may lie with him.

Sorry, didn't mean to sound like a fortune cookie...

Best wishes, Tertia. You'll know what's right for you... dammit, there I go again!

[Claire]

I would go on the pill. Miscarriages are horrible. But I think in two years or so your decision will be easier. My kids are 10 and 12. We go cycling and hiking and do so many things that just wouldn't be possible with a baby or a toddler or a younger child. Another child can limit the experiences you enjoy with older ones. (I am the eldest of four so there is a little bitterness here at all the things I wasn't allowed to do because it would be inconvenient for the younger ones!)

[kirstyphysio]

Hi.
I haven't read all the comments, as it's late and I am too tired, so apologies if what I say is merely a regurgitated version of all the other comments!
I will tell you how it is with ME!
I am 34, and have 3 children under the age of 4! Only one of them was planned! I never, ever wanted 3 children. I always said I would have 2 or 4, and after my second I said it's definately 2! But, some-one had other plans, because when madam was 7 months old, I found out I was pregnant with our 3rd!! I was NOT happy, the pregnancy took a while to get used to. But once I had my 1st scan, I became excited about having another baby (definately my last) so decided to make the most of everything - pregnancy, baby days etc.
Our little Luke arrived a wee bit early in October last week, and he IS the sweetest, most adorable baby ever! I cannot imagine our lives without him! I see my 3 together and I know how blessed and lucky I am.
That said - 3 is a big jump from 2! (The kids outnumber the adults) It is hard work every day - and some days I feel like I can't cope!!But - I think a third one gets it out of your system too!You know once you've had that third, that you do not want another baby! No matter how cute they are, you would rather coo over somebody else's!
So - my advice is: If you're questioning it, then DO it! I guarantee that the arrival of a third will get it out your system!
However - don't let the trying for a third take over your life and remove your enjoyment of A & K. Maybe give yourself a time frame - try for x months, and if it hasn't happened, then it hasn't happened. End of - move on. PLEASE don't become obsessive about it! If it happens, bonus, if it doesnt, so what!

[Pia]

I think that you already know the answer, but your fears are holding you back from admitting it.

Be still and listen to your heart whispering to you.

[jc]

It is absolutely fascinating how we're all reading the same post and reading different conclusions into it. For what it's worth, I thought the list tipped in favour of the pill (or whatever birth control method you choose).

[boliath]

I'm with the "try for another" gang. It seems to be a recurring theme on your blog and I get the feeling that you're not done. But, the poll didn't give me the option to say - plan it, try for it, give yourself a time limit, say a year or whatever seems right to you, if you have a successful IVF or however you choose to assist the conception, great, if not, giving yourself a time limit allows you to set that goal post and stop without searching your soul too deeply. Leaving it to chance could cause untold heartbreak. I agree with Krissy (Hi Poopy) "I think you should have another one because you want another one, and that is why we have babies. Because we want them."
Good luck!

[lysergica]

First time commenter here- I know this is about you but just to provide some context to my opinion. I'm turning 40 soon and feeling a really strong urge to have another child. I've got one 4 year old but no fertility issues to date. I probably won't be having another one because my spouse is adamantly opposed. I've drawn up lots of tables like yours and am nowhere near resolution- but here are some thoughts on your situation:

1. The thing you say about being in a good place now that you will be able to get back to presumably when the hypothetical third is older- have you considered that that will be three years out of your twins life which you and they will never have again? There would be compensations but also a cost. Moments that you might miss out on because of being too tired and exhausted.

2. I do get a sense that part of the reason you want another conceived naturally is to get some sense of closure on your infertility experience. This seems to me a little akin to women who want to have another baby following a traumatic first labour because they want to get the birth experience exactly right. But I'm not sure this is the best way to seek closure. Nothing is ever going to change the past and there are also no guarantees. Maybe you'll have a good pregnancy and birth but given your history you could also just be laying yourself open to yet more heartbreak and struggle- when you could be enjoying these good years and your kids while they are young. I think closure ultimately has to come from an effort of will. Those painful years are over now and you can choose to draw a line under them.

3. Have you thought about how good a parent you, given your individual circumstances, could be to three children as opposed to two? Do you have enough time and energy- physical and emotional for three? Remember its not just about getting through the baby years. Teenagers present their own challenges and as it is you'll be dealing with two teenagers in your 50s when physically you'll be slowing down.

I know the feeling of going back and forth worrying about all this. When I turned 39 I had a few months of feeling like I was fine with having an only and it was a really good feeling like now I could get on with other things. Enjoy getting more sleep, having more money- then a couple of people I know got pregnant and suddenly the yearning for another combined with the urgency of it being more or less now or never was back. It's especially bad when I'm ovulating. I am more or less resigned now to that being the case for the next five years or so- but I have had older women tell me that eventually those feelings diminish.

As for regret- that is is inevitable. I do think if I had a second child who was, for example, severely autistic so that I was going to be changing nappies for the rest of my life- I probably would regret it for the effect it would have on my kid's life as well as on me and my spouse. So with sticking with one at least I never have to deal with the pain and conflicted feelings of that. I'm pretty sure I would also regret it if I end up really poor in my old age, divorced and estranged from my ungrateful children. Not that things would necessarily go this way-but you have to consider the possible unhappy endings to the having another kid scenario as well as the good ones.

[Alex]

OK, I haven't read all the other comments but I did do a quick wordsearch on 'husband.' Am I really the only commenter willing to, ah, comment, that you appear to be advocating that those of us trying to get pregnant might do so by having sex with your husband? Really?

But as for your question, Tertia, I think you very much want another child (as far as I can tell from reading your blog), and if Marko is game then yes, absolutely, I think you should try. You are one tough lady and while I realize that you might get pregnant again one or more times yet, tragically, not have another baby, still, I think you are, honestly, tough enough to deal with whatever the future holds in that regard in exchange for the possible payoff of growing your family.

[Lisa S.]

I don't know I don't know! If I knew I would be able to get off my ass and call the dr and get in there for Day 3 bloodwork and start it all up again.

Here I think is what you need to think about: forget infertility, pregnancy, and babyhood. Think forward - 5, 10 15 years. Do you see another child there? Do you want another child there? Your work, the marriage, your free time, etc - all will work itself out, and more quickly than it did the first time.

See? Easy. So why am I still sitting on my ass?

[Beth]

I gave up on reading comments after the first 50 or so, so sorry if what I have to say is super repetitive. Let me begin by saying that although I have lost two pregnancies, I did not have trouble conceiving and can only imagine how painful that must be, and that experience must be huge in your mind and your heart when you consider having another baby. The decision to have a third child for us was driven by my feeling that my family wasn't full, not so much the fear of possible regret in the future. My husband was perfectly happy with 2, and many things on your Con list were the things he used to try to convince me that two was enough. But that feeling of something missing was so strong for me that he decided he was willing to go for it. I got pregnant immediately (with twins!) but miscarried at 12 weeks. So we tried again and got pregnant soon after and had our third daughter--and she has been totally the icing on the cake. My husband couldn't agree more, even though he did not personally feel the drive that I did. And even though I occasionally have baby-lust, my family feels complete now--there's absolutely no question about that.

I also want to add that I personally found the adjustment to 2 kids MUCH, MUCH harder than the adjustment to 3, even though #3 surprised us at birth with a relatively rare genetic condition that required surgery to remove her aganglic rectum and a portion of her colon at 1 month of age, and even though #2 and #3 are not even 2 years apart in age. I don't know why, buy going from 1 to 2 completely rocked my world!

This is such a personal decision, but I think the key may be figuring out whether it's fear of regret down the road driving the question for you, or whether you really feel like your family is not yet complete. To me, those are two very different things, and if it's the later I'd say go for it!

[Raenette (Auckland)]

Thirteen years ago I was having the same debate with my husband. We had two beautiful boys, and they were just out of nappies and life was getting easier. Before we had made a descision, I found that I was pregnant... with twins. They were born, and two and a half years later my husband died. These kids are now thirteen, the other two are beautiful young men. You never know what will happen in your life tomorrow. Look into your heart - if you want another child, go for it. Or, as in my case, God may decide for you, and you won't have to agonize so much!

[D]

Could this "what if I had another" thing go on past 3? Or will you want 4 - 5 - 6?? Im sure in the beginning you thought 2 would be a reach. Whatever you do don't dwell on it, don't accidentally miss mile stones in A&K's life by constantly thinking about "what if's"

And most importantly... You are a Mom now (and have been since the boys) - that will never ever be taken away.

If another child will be hard (emotionally, physically and on your marriage)- and I'm not saying it wouldn't be worth it- enjoy life with less worries and less stress and more focus on the family you already have.

D

[Mona]

My only comment isn't a yes or no, but rather since you've already had twins I don't think that going to 3 would be a huge adjustment in many ways. I know people who have had twins and then a singleton and they are amazed at how easy just one baby is. But that's not said to convince you to do it - just that twins is so much harder than one at a time, that one would seem like a cakewalk.

[Claire]

Move on Tertia, time to close the baby shop. Everyone lives with ambiguity--you might never get over/reconcile the desire to make more with the desire to stop, but it's ok to be complicated you know :)

[Cakes]

Unfortunately, my feelings go along with the fact that you have struggle with infertility. Telling someone who gets pg and stays pg within 3 mos to go ahead it'll be great, is completely different from telling someone with your history to jump back on the roller coaster.

I think if you feel you know an end time, as in if it doesn't work this is as far as I am willing to go and then I'll be done and satisfied, and you really feel drawn to have another child, then I say go for it.

But, if you end up failing (god forbid) will you end up much more unhappy than if you just gone on with what you have?

I didn't say this right, of course. But I hope you get the gist of what I'm trying to express.

[Melissa]

Honestly. With your list of pros and cons. I'd leave things be. Let it go. Make a conscious decision to stop (you do need closure. This limbo would do my head in too) and get on with loving this family you have.

I'm not saying it'd be easy. But I'm not sure that your Pro list outweighs your con.

If there is any chance it would be bad for my marriage/relationship, if I wasn't sure I could afford it and if I had to go through what you have to go through, I would want to settle down and just love what I have.

Just my 2c.

[L.]

I agree with Krissy Poopyhands. As well as the others who note that you keep on bringing this topic up. The only reason that people do this is that they're not hearing the answer they want to hear! And for that reason I also agree with the commenter who said that, if you were really interested in taking yourself off the baby market, you would be talking something more permanent than the pill...

I think in your heart and gut, you want another. But your mind says it would be better and healthier not to try. I would never be able to tell you what to do. It is something to talk over with Marko, something to have a heart-to-heart with yourself over. If it really is something you want, even if it's not good for the finances/family etc., where does that leave you? What are the options?

It is a tough decision, no question, otherwise you would have made it long ago. Aside from the big bad constraint of IF, and all the emotional and physical difficulties surrounding it, it is a bummer to have to incorporate all that financial, time-crunch, logistical stuff when making a decision about having a child, whose worth can't be weighed. I'm not infertile, and have one child. It is easy to say that, if the universe is willing, I want a second, but I seriously don't know about affording a third, time- or sanity- or money-wise. I wish I didn't have to think about that kind of thing. But that's life, I guess.

[Tine]

Your list really leans toward going on the pill. But then, in your wrap-up, you mention that you're really afraid you'd regret that decision.

To me, that's very telling. Also the fact that you keep bringing this up. You've said you're done with this many times, but part of you really isn't.

When I was going through my IF woes, I had a doctor (an internist, not my RE) who was PG with (I think) her 5th kid. She was definitely over 40 yrs. I didn't ask her a thing about it...but she explained herself anyway. She said something like: "We debated and debated and debated over this. Finally we realized that we would regret it if we didn't try."

That has stuck with me. If you truly think you would regret not trying for #3, then now's the time to do something about it. If/when #3 comes along, you most certainly will never regret his/her existence.

Good luck with your decision. It's a tough one, I know!

['wishIknew']

It's funny that a number of posters think you want to try for another when the vibe I get is that you know the right answer is to stop now and be happy but it's hard to close the door for good.

Following your request to just look at your situation and what I think you should do, I think you should stop at the wonderful 2 that you have.

I think you should use the time and energy that would get sucked up with another child to really work on staying close with Marko. I think another child would be really hard on your marriage and the thought of you with 3 children but split from Marko is a very sad thought indeed.

I think there probably will always be this little, "what if?" question you have to carry with you but I think the question will get softer over the years.

I would like to say that I think you COULD pull it off - life with 3 kids, but I think you and Marko and the whole family would be happier just the way you are. You have many interests and work that you are doing and I think it is important to find meaning in life beyond our kids. They will have their own lives one day too and the best thing you can do is to live your life fully and set a good example for them.

I do feel sad that you wouldn't have the final, "Stick it to IF!" moment with a miracle baby but I would also say that you HAVE triumphed over IF with the 2 wonderful children you have. A boy and a girl - replacing Marko and yourself. (contributing to zero population growth and therefore helping the planet as a fringe benefit)

In the end of course, only you and Marko know the right answer for you. I think it is one of the hardest questions for a family to answer.
Wishing you the best in making a decision.

'wishIknew'

[Carla Hinkle]

To me your spreadsheet seems to weigh in favor of not trying... theoretically you would like more but practically I think no. If you DID have a baby you would of course love it ... but if you are making a choice, to me you are leaning "no".

[terri c]

I have a neither/nor bit of assvice, and that is: go to the RE and get a workup, check hormone levels, etc., and get some idea how likely it would be that you could conceive at this point. I know, I know, with ART a lot more things become possible, but I do worry about the two MC's, and perhaps there is something there. At least then you could say, we have a 50% chance, damn the torpedoes, go ahead, or, there really is only a 1-2% chance, so it makes sense to close the door now.

[Trish]

I skimmed all the comments, and I am not sure anyone mentioned your lovely new tits. What would another pregnacy do to them?!?

[Irndly]

Tertia
I intentionally wanted to reply to you without reading other posts so I could come at this nice and clean.
I know you said, not my situation, your situation - but you and I share a lot of situation, so that's going to be hard to do.
Having both buried a live child that has been in our arms, it must have changed you in ways that have of course changed me.
While I was lucky enough to eventually have 2 healthy breathing children, it never was lost on my that I had built 'my' dream, and need not go further. And perhaps there is an element of being addicted to the IVF world. But in your particular case, being an infertile (and in mine) isn't just a problem you have, it's an identity you've assumed. And better or worse, it's yours and mine. I've spent the better part of the last decade building my identity about what I couldn't do. And it's hard to give that up. So from that angle, I have to say that I can't think of a number of pregnancies or children that would end that for me.
On the other side, these are the logical considerations:
1. Do you really feel it in your heart?
2. Does M really feel it in his heart?
3. Are you truly prepared to add to your family at THIS point in time? If age and infertility were NOT an issue, would you have left more time after Adam and Kate?

Just from my side, time was a massive factor. We had to get pregnant pretty fast for number 2 due to deteriorating fertility on both parts. It's been difficult, and I wouldn't take it back. But if time and age were no issue, I'd have waited a few years.

What will having another child do for you? Is there something still not 'right' in that cosmic sense where you know that something's just not there yet?
(if I have to answer truthfully, I'd say that I could be 90 and never truly be done with this)