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Damn, you are good writer.


I know how easy it can be to become obsessed with building a family (or expanding it, as the case may be). But is that "wrong?" Does it count as a vice, or a cardinal sin? I don't think so.

How can you ever find peace, if you don't follow your heart/dreams, Tertia? I worry that you will end up with deep regret, if you don't at least TRY for that goal.

So... I guess I'm voting for feeding that damn beast until it's full, and goes away. Or until it starts to consume you, instead. At which point, you make the call (and I am certain you will know when you get to *that* point).

Remember, too, dear Tertia... IF you proceed with this dream, you are approaching it from a totally different starting point. You have two gorgeous, healthy children! They afford you a bit of an emotional "safety net," I dare say.

What does Marko have to say on the subject?

Hate me. I can get pregnant at the drop of a hat. I've been pregnant 3 times due to failed birth control. After even Mirena didn't work, my husband finally "took charge". That was 3 years ago. Nearly once a month I regret the finality of the decision-even knowing it was the best for the family. That being said, know that no matter how the child is created, the desire to make, form, shape, carry, care, smell a new baby is so intense, so primal that I wonder if some women ever lose their aching baby lust...I'm not sure I ever will.

I vote for feeding the beast. I'll be going back for number two soon. Of course, my journey wasn't quite as difficult as yours (3 IVFs, 1 ET, no miscarriages) but nonetheless I really do feel as though I'll be starting the second journey from a different place. I have a beautiful daughter and while I want a bigger family, I can never forget that there were many times I thought I wouldn't have one at all. So, I say go for it! It will be hard but different.

Go for it.

So - it never goes away? 4 years ttc, 4 x IVF BFNs, not a single BFP ever...whenever I say "this is the last one", I find myself saying "well, maybe just one more". I know the hardest thing to do is stop especially if you're childless....but I never realised it would be hard to stop even when you're successfull, but I so get it.

If it is something that you really want you should do it and not waste any time. Time is a bummer in this game.

Maybe you can even use your own egg donor programme. Have you considered it. The IVF success rate with donor eggs are much higher than the normal IVF pregnancy rate. And it eases some of the pressure.

It makes me sad to read your words. Means that even WHEN I succeed one day to have a baby things will probably always be different for me (compared to all those fertile cows!) when it comes to babies and pregnancies.

Much love.

I have 3 kids. 6,3,1. People told me that there comes a time that you KNOW you are done. CRAP AND DOUBLE CRAP. My head says NO MORE. I can hardly cope now BUT my heart YELLS for just 1 more. I got no answers. Am so in your boat.

It is such a difficult decison.

The "why" is the important question.
Is it to be pregnant again?
Is it to prove to yourself that you can do it again?
Is it because you long for the sisterhood of cycling buddies?
Is it because you want another child?

Depending on your answer, you may find the right path to follow.

I know you're not religious, but sometimes just putting a little prayer "out there" helps. I am not churchy, but I do this often.

Good luck with your decision.

I'm assuming your addendum to the original post is in response to my comment?

I totally *got* that this was an Internal Dialogue. I only meant that, if you feel so strongly about it, surely at SOME point, the subject has come up with Marko? And, if so, does he express an opinion (definite) on the matter? Or have you kept this yearning completely to yourself?

Hmmm... now that I think about it, if you two HAVEN'T been talking about this (since it obviously weighs heavily on your mind/heart), you really DO need to talk. Have you kept up weekly dates with your husband? Or is that weekly slot reserved for Rose only? ;-)


I guess fertiles and infertiles will have a different take on this one… I would not like to see you taking this route again and these are my reasons (and I wish I could say this in my mother language as I do not want to choose a wrong word). Deciding not to have more children, for whatever reason, but knowing that you can, means dealing with a different kind of monster. Being unable to get pregnant and longing for a child is more than sadness; it is excruciating pain. On-going. Non-stop. It is true that you will never be in the same state of desperation as you were before, but Adam & Kate would not be able to take away the hurt and the constant feeling of loss that come with infertility. Even when we do not miscarry, we lose hope, time, relations, money, dreams… We keep losing things without anything in return but age wrinkles and swollen bellies. Having your beautiful children, even after your difficult past, put you out of the dark, infertile world; but you do not belong to a world where women choose to give birth before summer, just to avoid some extra heat, either. You know IVF is a game, right? A freaking russian roulette. You had what it takes before; do you still have it? Do you still need it? It seems to me that feeding the beast is like tossing a coin to see in what world you do belong…

I think your post reaches more than infertiles. It was difficult to close the door to that part of my life, and every now and again I crack it open just a bit. What would happen if we tried once more? The yearning is not gone, but at this point in all of our lives (mine, my husband's, as well as my kids)the head rules the heart.

the couch is more fun that the stirrups. just remember that.

life is short - and you only live once - a very dear friend recently lost a husband and little baby girl (how cruel life can be) - she said to me that she constantly yearns to turn back the clock. it made me listen more to my heart's desires so that I don't regret a single thing one day when I can't turn back that clock....I would go for it!


Even though I have my two kids and my house is stuffed with as many children as it could possibly hold, I still find myself thinking of more--whether involving assistance or not.

For me, I don't know if that yearning is just garden variety baby lust or tied up with my experience with infertility and wanting to do something just because I know it could be difficult. (NB: Not speculating over your motives; just sharing mine.)

Tertia, I am struggling (and have been for 2 years) with the same thing. I also have b/g twins conceived after much help and intervention. I really thought this would be it for us, especially since I had a complicated pregnancy resulting in them coming 13 weeks early. But I love my kids with all of my heart - more than I ever thought I could love anyone. And because of that, I have an ache to have more children despite knowing that it would be a long, hard road for everyone.
Just yesterday I visited my infertility doc for a "consultation" (the first since my pregnancy with the twins) to see what my options would be. I think that visit helped me to realize that I didn't want to travel down that long road again right now. Would a chat with your doctor help you lay out your options realistically or would it propel you to act?
My heart goes out to you since I know exactly how you feel. Somehow dealing with infertility the second time has been so much harder since everyone assumes that b/g twins is everyone's ideal family, and if you want another than you're ungrateful for what you have. It can be very lonely and isolating, but it sounds like you have the best possible support with family and friends to make the best decision for your family - whatever that decision may be.
Good luck!

Oh darling.

I don't know what's right for you, hell I don't even know what's right for me, but I think that for me and my husband (and our gloriously oblivious 2 yr old son, happy result of IVF 5 of 6) it's what my husband and I decided, messily, tearfully, repetitively: to stop.

To stop right here and enjoy the heartstoppingly wonderful blessing of what we have. Yes, I will probably always yearn for more children, but we've looked deep into ourselves and found that IVF (it having worked, miraculously, once) is the only path with which we are both comfortable. We were given a 3% tops chance of success for any future IVF with my eggs, and honestly hon, that's not enough to keep going.

I recently just found out that an old friend of mine, with whom I lost contact many years ago, was two years ago hit by a car the week before the planned c-section to deliver her much longed-for first child, a daughter. Her daughter died, she almost did too, and now she can no longer bear children.

It shames me that this tragedy is what it took for me to quit my (internal) dying swan routine, to snap out of the lament for a larger family. Yes, lots of undeserving people have large families, but oh god don't we know it how people who deserve children aren't blessed with any.

To your readers who say 'go for it', oh god, I dunno. If you are reading this and you have no children yet, then yes, go for it by any means it takes, for as long as you feel comfortable (and even a bit further: the prize is so worth it). For those of us who have one - or two or three - child/ren, and are still tempted by the siren call of science (as you say T, just a phone call away, and so familiar), I'm not so sure.

For me, it did go away eventually. Well, almost. I still get the occasional twinge, but those will no doubt soon pass, too. What did it for me was getting old. I'm now 44.5. I am finally normal. Few women can get pregnant at this age. Even my friends who had no trouble getting pregnant in their 30's would probably not be able to have a baby at this age. So I no longer feel defective, I just feel old. I imagine as I hit 45 and 46, the feelings will fade even more. That is depressing in itself, being so old as to be (almost) completely past child-bearing age, but it is something I think many women, fertile ones, too, go through. You are younger than I was when I had my babies, so I think that makes it harder for you.

I also had my IVF singleton, and then my IVF twins. I really only wanted two children, three was a surprise and a bonus. If I had had my twins first, I know I would have felt I should stop, but I would have felt the pull to do it again. I had my tubes tied during my c-section for my twins, even though I knew that I really really didn't want more kids. I wanted to officially put the monthly hope for a miracle in the past, and I could always do IVF again if I desperately needed to for some reason, even with my tubes tied. Even though I had an awful pregnancy with my twins, and would have been crazy to get pregnant again, there were moments that I wished I had not had my tubes tied. Insane.

If you want to so badly, why not just do it? The second time around, doing IVF, was easier than the first time. It wasn't as if I didn't care, because I did, but I didn't have the same desperate feeling I did the first time, because I already was a mother. When my first try the second round failed, I felt bad that day, but I felt surprisingly okay very quickly. I did try again, which I had thought I wouldn't do, I though "one more try" would do, but that was partly because I felt some mistakes had been made in my cycle, so we made some tweaks. And boy, those tweaks sure worked. I started out with three, but lost one early on.

I really believe that you will not feel this pain forever. You will always remember it, but there comes a point where it is just a memory, not a current feeling, in my opinion. And I don't think anyone would think you were crazy to try again.

Oh Tertia - I'm hearing you!

May I offer you your own advice (to infertiles).... if it hurts more to give up the dream than to continue on that road - then it's not time to quit yet.

I went through 9 IVF cycles in a period of less than a year and a half to have my twin daughters, who are now 19 months. Needless to say my life was completely on hold in every other aspect. I'm starting again sometime this year and won't stop until I see a BFP. I have learnt to be strong through this even in front of my husband, plus going for #3 is not the same as going for #1, and I won't let it consume my life. I don't see anything crazy in starting again, but only you know what you can handle.

Me too. Me too. I'm still deciding about whether or not to have a second child, this time with donor egg. A hard call, no matter how you look at it. I'm happy, but I don't feel done.

Oh please not the beast! You know how terrifying that beast is.
I have figured some people will never feel finished. They will always want another. This applies to fertiles and infertiles. I also regret that vasectomy but I am happy with my lot.
I wrote a post on infertility today. Just the thought of you doing another IVF makes my heart race and shoulders burn.
And noise-eous (nauseous) as Rebeks would say. Scary!!!

i think every female has a number in her head...the number of kids she would love to have...my number is 4...and the thing is i dont even know if i will have 1 ... ivf is our way of making babies and the only way we know how...so with each new cycle, comes the hope, excitement and even fear...but the thought of doing something, anything is enough to make us believe we are getting closer to our goal....so i say go for it..

Tertia - I am not infertile, but you have made me see IF with new eyes and a huge heart.

I have 2, a boy and girl. My heart keeps whispering "one more, just one more", my head (read: budget) shouts "you have got no chance?!"

I understand that beast. Its a nasty one.

The DH is going for the snip. It seems so final. We have two (who don't believe that sleep is necessary...ever). And we can't afford more. And the thought of another horrendous pregnancy makes me cringe. And yet...and yet...another baby... *sigh* I hear you, T, LOUD and clear.

I have stopped. It was a very gradual and hard decision and I don't know if it'll ever be the right one.

But, in stopping, I am now continuing on with my life and so is my husband and our son (though he knew nothing of it, at least I hope not).

I am free of the continual 'what-if's' and just being thankful for what I have.

I hear you and understand you only too well, butI couldn't go on for ever. It has to end sometime.

Good luck

When you're done, you'll know, and if you're not done and you never try again, you will just have regrets. I say this because I was in your shoes. I had my twins after about 5 or more years of trying, but I was sad the minute I knew I was having two at once. Not because I was upset about having twins, because I knew I would be "done"...I would never be pregnant again, breastfeed again, hold a baby again. I wasn't ready to be done. My twins got older and older, but I wasn't DONE. I didn't care for IVF at all, but it was the only way, so I made that call. My frozen embryos gave us nothing but a chemical pregnancy, and left me with an even stronger desire to try again. So we did, another fresh cycle after 3 years...all the tests, the shots, the blood work, the anxiety...and it worked!!! I'm now 18 + weeks pregnant with my last...and I feel DONE. I threw my old needles and meds away, my stuffed IVF folder, and no regrets*. This is the last year we would be covered by insurance, so it was definitely now or never for us. I can tell you, that if that ache is to have another child, to be pregnant again, and to expand your family, that doing IVF again isn't an addiction...it's just the means to and end, and that you will know when you're DONE because the babbling in your head will stop.

*side note: I have 4 embryos now in storage, and if anything should go wrong with this pregnancy, I will use them. I don't intend to use them otherwise...but they'll still be there until we do something with them.

I used to subscribe to the "you never regret the children you do have" school of thought. Then came the time when I realized you (general "you" . . . OK, really, "I") never regret the time you didn't feel stretched to the breaking point, so overwhelmed you can't enjoy what you've worked so hard to get.

And then came the oops pregnancy, which freaked me out but good, and then the gradual mental adjustment, and then the predicatable miscarriage. Probably that should have made me come to terms with my life as it is, but my kids (who didn't know about the pg) keep talking about babies, and not reacting to that outwardly has my insides churning.

Which is a long way of saying, I hear you, and I have no wisdom to share. Or hoard. I am wisdom-free.

I tried to convince myself that getting a Benz will take away the need & want for a baby. Till I realised the saddest thing about the Benz is that there might never be a 'baby on board' sticker in the back.
There is nothing I want more. There is nothing that scares me more. I know how to soothe the pain. It has become such a big part of me. I no longer know who I'll be without the pain.

Please, please, please don't hate me for this. One is given a certain amount of time on earth, a certain range of focus, levels of energy, opportunity to grow, ups, downs, and through all this time, one gives and takes from life and oneself and others around you, and all of this makes up one's life. That is it. That is what we are, those moments are our lives. Be careful to be addicted to the emotional highs of this life. Please. Sometimes, one can also get addicted to the emotional lows because recovering from it makes one feel strong and invincible, even special. Both those are out of balance. Please spend your time left on earth wisely. Know that you are able, within limits, to choose where to focus your energy and how you give and take from life. Going down a road once again, one that you have found so profound that you wrote an incredibly touching book about it, knowing that it can either lead to a massive low or a massive high: know that you are choosing that. Please make sure you know exactly why. Be honest with yourself. Is it the baby or is it the journey? Is it the need for an addition to the family, or for the emotional overstimulus? Is it the "don't care how tough it is, I need to do this" or "I have to scratch this itch otherwise I'm going to go crazy"? Ok, I'm posting this under a pseudonym 'cause I really hope you don't hate me forever for these harsh words. Please, just be truthful with yourself about what is happening, really, at this point. I'm so sorry for being so tough.

After I had my second son, I immediately wanted another baby. My husband was not so thrilled. I told him that I didn't want one right away, just that I wasn't done. We had an oops pregnancy - failed BC pills that ended in a miscarriage. I was so heart broken that I pleaded with my hubby for another. We were still discussing it when I found out I was pregnant - another failed birth control, just different method. I am so happy I have my daughter. After I had her, I felt complete and done. I still have little pangs of missing babies, but I'm happy with my three. I know I can't imagine the difficulties with IVF, but I say if you're not done then you should go for it.

I'm done. Some days my heart forgets that though.

Hi Tertia

I have to disagree with most of the above comments. You say yourself, you do not have enough time for your kids, you have a stressful job, you never have any "me time", and your husband does also not have too much of you.

Then where on earth would you ever find the time to have another baby? You have quality time with Rose, you have just started your new project, don't you think your plate is already filled to the brim?

Would it be fair on your family to put them through having another baby, and all the stresses that comes with it for you?(sadness, joy, will it be a success). You say yourself, the hormone treatment makes you extremely grumpy.

I really think you should count your blessings, and get passed this now. Would you not have your two beautiful children, it would be something else, but you do, so enjoy.

Thank you Clara - what you said really resonates with me, about myself.

I know a woman who is the mother of nine kids.

And she regrets that she didn't have more!!

She is from a different culture, a different generation. But that is how she feels.

Why does your head say stop? Maybe it will happen easily next time.

I often read your blog, although it has been ages since we've last spoke. This one, even more than the other ones that we've had more in common about (IF, Prematurity, life wiht twins, SID (autism)), this one did leave me in tears. Maybe because we tried again (transferring two for a FET twicee) and to this day I still feel I shouldn't really be sad it didn't work...look what I have? But, I just wanted you to know that you hit the nail right on the head with this one...
Oh, and I love Mel's blog too...


I say go ahead, there are a number of us who would LOVE to go for IVF, but we simple can't afford it. If you can afford it, and you want it, then just do it!!!! It's very simple if you look at it from the perspective of someone who would kill for an IVF or 2 or 3. I would do it 20 times if I could, at least I would know that I am doing something.

This is so hard. I am sorry.
The best I can wish you is to find peace, but reading this I am not sure you can find it without giving it a try.

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