Closing Shop

(bodily functions and faulty reproductive bits mentioned)

I’m having a bit of a dilemma. Which is putting it mildly. I am not sure whether to shut the factory down for good, or keep it chugging along in its pitiful, yet marginally functioning state. 

If things were normal, if *I* was normal (cue hysterical laughter here), then I might be happy to let things chug along as they were and see what happens. But things (my body and I) are far from normal and so I feel like I need to make a decision either way. Which really sucks and makes me feel a renewed sense of frustration, irritation and mourning for the sorry state of affairs of my reproductive bits. 

I need to decide whether I would like another child, or whether I should go back on the pill / Mirena and put a final full stop at the end of ‘Mommy, Daddy, Adam and Kate.’

There is a part of me that would LOVE to conceive naturally and be pregnant with ONE baby. A big part. I have been so cheated of any ‘normal’ conception and pregnancy experience, plus I haven’t ever had a chance what it feels like to hold just one baby. To focus all your attention on ONE baby. So yes, there is a part of me that would love to have all of that. Plus I like the idea of a big family. I come from a big family.

But do I want another child? Children are expensive. They are exhausting. It has been a rough first two years with the twins; I am FINALLY seeing the light at the end of the tunnel. Do I really want to go through this again? 

And what about the very high chance of another loss? Can I handle yet another loss? What about the wear and tear on my body that pregnancy brings? I have been pregnant five times already. I am not sure my body and mind can handle any more.

It is not just the psychological and emotional limbo, I can handle that. Hell, I’ve been handling that for eight years now. Plus I don’t have the same sense of angst anymore, obviously. It is more a case of “would be nice, but not heartbreaking if it doesn’t happen”.

Another factor that is coming into play is my age. I will be 39 this month. OMG! How the fuck did that happen? Woosh! The sound of the years between 27 and 39 just racing by. I swear I was 27 only last week sometime! I am not sure I want to have another child at 40+. Not because I think there is anything wrong with being an older mother (in fact, I think there is a lot to be said for waiting a little), but because I am feeling my age. I feel old, and very very tired. Both my kids, but especially my son, take up so much of my energy that I am not sure I have it in me to have another one. What if it too is a non-sleeping, hard-work child! So, yes, the age thing is something I am considering. I am not sure what the cut off point would be for me, but it feels soon’ish.

The thing that is driving me to make the closing-shop decision sooner rather than later is that my cycles are completely wonky and it is driving me crazy.  I have loooong cycles and I take forever to stop bleeding. Sorry if TMI. (It is as if my body doesn’t have the hormone necessary to say “ok, you are done with your period, you can stop bleeding now and make eggs or a lining or whatever the fuck normal people make” My body gets stuck on repeat. No period………no period………no period………no period………no period………no period………no period………no period……… PERIOD!! Periodperiodperiodperiodperiodperiodperiodperiodperiod.  

I hate living like that. It wears me down and I actually want to reclaim my body back. Go back on the pill to force my body into a proper cycle (and stop the bleeding), or go on the Mirena and have no cycle at all. Even better.  If my useless reproductive bits (including those spectacularly ineffectual hormones of mine) aren’t doing anything except annoy me, why bother keeping them functional? Why not just shut them down for good and move on with my life. Eight years is a long time after all. And I do have two wonderful children. So why not just shut it down and move on?

Because I secretly think I want another child. And because dammit, I want my chance at normal. And because putting myself on birth control goes against every infertile bone in my body. Plus, my body has done it before. Conceive. Four times with a lot of medical intervention and once where, in a rare moment of planetary alignment and supernatural luck, the forces combined to ensure that there was an egg, a willing sperm cell with a keen sense of direction, a couch and napping children all at the same time. Of course that pregnancy ended really well, but the point is that with enough divine intervention and thinking of England, I apparently can conceive on my own. Do I really want to close off that tiny chance?

And yet, I feel as if I must make a decision. I want my life back and my body back.  (My mind is long gone) It is so unfair though. That I have to make this decision. Makes me cross all over again. Infertility: The gift that keeps on giving. It is amazing how something that other people don’t ever give a passing thought to can cause so much anguish in the lives of others. Sigh. 

Anyway, if you were me (aren’t you thankful you aren’t!), what would you do? Shut the factory down and get on with your life or keep the rusty machinery going just a bit longer. Just in case? What say you, oh wise and wonderful ones?

Comments

[Karinsamira]

Hi Tertia,

I mostly only lurk and rarely comment, but I have to say something on this topic of yours.
Besides the two possibilities you discuss in your post here (going either on bcp or doing another cycle) you could do something in between: there are meds out here ( at least where I live) which will give you a boring, 28-day cycle but NOT suppress ovulation if your body feels like having one. I was on that stuff forever in the old times when REs felt I was too young for clomid/injectibles and yes,I did ov from time to time on that drug regimen.
Hope that helps a bit, and good luck in whatever you decide to do!

Karinsamira

[Meg]

Oh, that's such a hard decision.

I'm weighing up whether to keep trying for a third, too (though I haven't had half the problems you've had in this area).

I think a person does need to make the decision eventually. To say OK, it's not going to happen, I'm going to stop trying. But at what point?!

Would more information help? Like if you went to your doctor and asked for approximate statistics on how likely it is that you could have another baby - then if he says 20% or less you say OK I won't try again, if he says 40% or more you say OK I'll try again?

It's also hard because if you make the commitment to trying again and it doesn't work, in some ways that's a lot worse than if you just decide to stop trying.

Good luck, sweetheart.

[Rachel]

Hi Tertia,
I hear what you are saying and my heart feels sore for your turmoil. Personally, I think this will be an ongoing decision you will always consider. Remember before you had your boobs done you did a blog where you said you were either going to try again or get the boobs. You did both :O) and unfortunately the baby didn't happen.

There is a small chance you could conceive naturally, then you have to contend with the wonky hormones and the periods. If you close factory then at least you know it is over and done with.

I don't have children, I'm 28 and on the Merina, I don't think I will ever want children (slight pressure from hubby there) but I simply LOVE the merina and not having a period, it's the best - that useless information was brought to you by me....

Whatever you decide, I'm sure you will make the right decision.

[Stef]

i think you should call it a day. enjoy your two kiddies! a new baby will set you back another 5 years, no sleep, and you still have to give attention to the other 2, and marko...almost forgot about him.

its such a difficult decision to make T and i know how you feel, i sometimes think moms think i stalk them in p&p, i just want to look at their babies the whole time! BUT you have to make peace... either with the fact that you want another baby or that you're ok with things as they are. i sometimes get the impression you feel guilty just at the thought of wanting another baby, you shouldn't...if you want another one~ go for it, give yourself a timeline and toss those dice...

[beck]

Keep the factory chugging away, rust and all!

[RainbowW]

did you have to ask to know what i'd say?

duct tape will keep their kids long enough to give the couch a workout, and then you can see what happens.

[RainbowW]

let's try that again, this time with FEELING and without TYPOS.

duct tape will keep the kids away long enough to give the couch a workout, and then you can see what happens.

there. slightly more comprehensible.

[Rosalie]

Keep the factory open for a while longer, you never know what can happen?

[Jen @ amazingtrips]

Only you know what to do. But from the sounds of it - your heart is telling you that you're not done yet. Regardless of what your mind may think - your heart is typically what leads you to do what you do. That's why decisions like the one you are trying to make are so painful. Your mind is saying one thing. Your heart is saying something altogether different.

I was on the infertility roller coaster for almost 10 years before we were finally successful at achieving our dream of "parenthood". Our triplets are the love of my life but the experience of IVF, a high-risk pregnancy, 9-week preemies, a 6-week NICU stay and the task of raising multiples is FAR from the normal "motherhood" experience I had always dreamed of. Since then, I've had the *spontaneous* one baby pregnancy. And for what it's worth, carrying one baby, giving birth to one baby, bringing one baby home from the hospital, doting on one baby, co-sleeping and wearing and nursing on demand one baby, has been THE most healing and gratifying experience of my entire life, after everything I have been through. And you know what's crazy as hell? I now have four children. ALL OF THEM WEAR DIAPERS. But I still can't say that I feel "done". What with global warming and 3-year old triplets that are driving me nucking futs EVERY DAY, if I were to find out that I was pregnant again (which would be an absolute miracle of immaculate conception), I'd be over the moon happy.

[tess]

what does marko say? if you can convince him (any more coupons?) because you don't want to do this alone then you should go with what it seems quite clear you want to do.

break your heart now and stop,
or
take the risk
and break your heart either with m/c
or with loving.
as you have experienced with adam, you know the heartbreak that loving causes.

go with your heart, your tender, gorgeous, kick arse heart.

xo tess

[Maritza]

Maybe you should see the doc and find out if here is any way you can have the best of both worlds - I like having my bread buttered on both sides - and I suspect you do too...maybe Karinsamira's suggestion can work? I've never heard of such meds though...

Otherwise, maybe do 6mnths on 6 mnths off...Imagining me being you, I would dread having to give up all at once without any recourse or magical possibilities. I know my previous FS said it's much better for your overall health to be on the pill if you have PCOS or similar hormonal imbalances...so that side of the coin also has great benefits.

If there is any way you can make peace with your current situation and be content with having only that, I would seriously recommend hormonal treatment to regulate your cycles, it will keep you healthier and happier for longer...and live to see Adam & Kate's kids have kids...but I know that is easier said than done...especially for someone as passionate as you...

Oi, decisions, decisions...

[Liria]

hi you, had to reply to this one. It took us 9 years to make our 2 beautiful girls....i had the chance of getting my tubes tide in august when i gave birth to Maya..i didnt..it was too final.. do i want another baby? if i and dh were younger probably yes....but the emotional psicological implication scare me...i cant go trhoug all that again and another loss would kill me!will i go on birth control now? yes,evenbtually as i am still BF...will get the mirena....i feel for you and in your position i would probably keep trying as your wish is still very strong....its hard to give up a dream and you and i cant, ever, we are way too stubborn! good luck with what you decide!just be totally honest with yourself..do a list of pro and con (ps i turned 39 the day beofre Maya was born!)sending you a big hug!

[Tamara Johannes]

Hi Tertia ~

You don't sound like you're "done" yet my friend. You have a longing for another child & I can understand that desire. I love what Jen wrote above (love her blog & the beautiful Henry). I have baby lust when I read Jen's blog.

You are young ~ although you feel old you're young (I'm old but I can't tell you my age unlesss I've had lots of wine). I spent over 5 years in infertility hell & have a ds but nevertheless was v v v depressed this past year due too...you know (age, finances, dh, ds, etc, etc.)

I feel hope for you & if you have an urge for another child then go for it! Life is short & you shouldn't have regrets. LISTEN to YOURSELF.

XXOO, T

[Jade]

As Karinsamira said, there are meds that can regulate your periods without stopping ovulation. I was on pills called Prempak that did just this.

Check it out, and you never know!

Good luck!

[V]

I'm kind of scared to post this and potentially hurt infertiles and annoy everyone else, but here goes. I think you need to ask yourself whether another child is really in the best interests of your children, your hubby and your marriage. I know everyone says that mothers have to take time to put themselves first, but when considering another baby, I don't think it is just about the mom. T, in your own words, you're tired. Is it fair to add another HUGE (even though positive) stressor like a pregnancy and new baby to the mix? I missed so much time with Erica while I was struggling through my hellish pregnancy with Ewan, and his ongoing health problems have widened the gap between us even more. I feel like I've 'lost' her. Sometimes I wish that I never 'upset the applecart' by having a second. Don't get me wrong, I love Ewan and would never give him up for anything, but it has taken its toll on Erica and my marriage and I often mourn what I have lost and wonder if it will ever come right. Sometimes it's better to be happy with what you have. Of course, you can also argue that 'nothing ventured is nothing gained' but my venturing is about to render me divorced and in the loony bin.

[Tertia]

V, I really appreciate your honesty. This is the type of stuff that we don't talk about enough. You are so right. Damn.

[Mandy]

Hi there Tertia
I would just like to say that I have PCOS and endometriosis and my periods are also totally out of whack. I bleed for 2 weeks at a time every 10 days. We have been trying to conceive but my gynae has me on metformin (which I don't take often cause it makes me feel very sick) and he also prescribed Climen which is a med like the pill but it doesn't stop you from ovulating. I can still get pregnant but at the same time it is helping me to achieve a regular cycle and stop the bleeding. I have used it for 3 months and will use it for the next year. If I still don't become pregnant we are going to give Clomid a try. I am 27 yrs old and we have been TTC for a year but my Doc feels I am still too young for Clomid and all the rest. I can certainly relate to your feelings and I think you should find out more about Climen and other related meds you can use whithout shutting down the whole system completely. I yearn for a baby everyday of my life, and therefor I say, have all the kiddies you want. No matter how tired you feel. You already made an 18 yr commitment of selfless love and attention with the twins, so what will make it different? Adam and Kate will still be your kids, and you will still love them like you do now. NOTHING IN THE WORLD can EVER change that. After all, our children are the only things we can take to heaven with us, and Ben is waiting there for you guys already! I really hope you give it a try, then at least one day when you're a grandma you will know that you tried. Lots of Love.

[Stef]

after i've read everybody's comments i thought i must add this:

my mom had 5 kids, she says its overwhelming but of course she loved every bit of it, but stil,huge work. when my sister got pregnant with her 3rd baby my mom wasn't happy, her first words were...oh no...she felt horrible about it, but she immediately remembered how tough it was going from 2 to 3, apparently the 4th and 5th children are very easy... ;-)

my sister had 3 kids: she's now 42, youngest 2 yrs old... the jump from 2 to 3 doens't sound like much but lemme tell you, it's huge, she's constantly pulled in so many directions it's unreal, she loves all her babies, that's never the problem.

V gave some very useful advise. Good luck with your decision!

[Beth]

This is such a difficult call, one I am facing at the moment as well, but my "shutting-up-shop" would be a hysterectomy for my awful endo symptoms, which is just so very permanent.

I've tried so hard for a third - countless IUI's, 2 disasterous IVFs, and one miraculous pg which ended in mc. No pg prevention for 7 years, all the treatment and only one conception - I know how slight my chance of a spontaneous conception is! Yet, there is always this niggling feeling in the back of my head, maybe one month it will happen on its own. There is no way we will do more treatment, I would loose my husband if I insisted...

But I am so tired of dashed hopes month after month, and dealing with endo which just gets worse and worse...

So sorry, not giving you any answers, but what V said further up really touched me, maybe my lack of success hasn't been the worst thing that could have happened.

Take care

[Feebee]

I think the very fact that you've written this post is evidence that you're not finished yet. And I know how difficult a decision it is as there is no "leaving it up to chance". For me, if I have had sex, then there is a chance, however remote. And that takes its toll on my family. But as long as the desire is there, I will keep going. I've had one live birth out of eight pregnancies and several IUIs and IVFs. Yes, I feel cheated but I am determined to resolve those feelings for all our sakes and hopefully give my darling son a sibling in the process.

[Melody Brown, Cape Town]

Wow, this is a post that is getting your lurkers out of the woodwork hey! Am in the exact same place as you. Also had fertility problems. I now have 3 (6,3,1) Hubby keen for another. Me too.

But I know my limitations. I just cant do it again. I am tired and constantly pulled in many directions. I feel I cant give my best to anyone and often scrape through the day.

But life is too short to live with regret. If the urge is overwhelming - you simply must try for your baby. You will NEVER regret having him/her but if you close up shop you will almost CERTAINLY regret NOT even trying. Tough call girl, I only decided 2 days ago it was over for me. A sad day. But a necessary one. For me. Strength to you.

[Dido]

hey dear girl.... i think that if you read your own post once again, you'll get a clear answer yourself. really. it's there. just read it through carefully. you've written it all. all that you have, all that you feel and all that is at stake.

and just look at your life: you have it all. with a lot of hard work, but you have it all. two great kids (even of different gender!), a functioning marriage (wow!), a great home, friends, family... why challenge the stars?
yes, it would be nice. but it would also bring so many risks with it. IF it happens at all, IF it develops ok, the wear and tear to your body during pregnancy, birth, newborn days, etc., etc. - and all that IF everything works out fine.
and at the same time, you still have a life to lead... and need quite some energy for that.

sorry if i sound defeatist... not my intention... but you asked for a sincere opinion, and there you go. a completely impartial view from someone thousands&thousands of miles away (hey, it's snowing here today, while you're sweating in the summer sun, so imagine how distant and impartial i am, a whole different world), and yet at the same time someone who's been there done that...

and i only wish i were in your shoes - i too have just turned 39 (yes, whoosh!), i have one dearest 2-yr-old from my first ivf (the not-meant-to-be twin went into my ovary ruptured but luckily my son and i survived!). i always thought i'd have two kids but before i even had a chance of deciding whether i really have the energy for another pg. at this age and with a 2-yr-old (have some frozen embryoes left, which makes the decision harder - if it weren't for them, there would be nothing to decide), my husband realised he's in a mid-life crisis and is moving out... and believe me, that's the last thing i ever expected in my life!!!
(yes, it was in a way I who suggested he should move out, i just couldn't stand the loveless daily routine any more... and he agreed.)
so instead of deciding on another pg. and a new house, as i thought just a few months back, i'll probably remain even without my marriage, because it couldn't survive 'the wear and tear' of it all - infertility, high-risk pregnancy, PPD, the subsequent lack of libido - and i was foolish to believe that those were just the last hurdles that we'd overcome together, as so many other things we've done...

and you know what... i'm not even complaining - it would be a blasphemy! i was lucky enough to get my dear boy and become a mother! wow. nothing beats that.
as for everything else - well, it's just what happens in life...
i just wrote it to shed some more light, from yet another perspective, on the question you posed in your post....

all the best to you girl!
dido, europe

p.s. it's only after i wrote this that i read the other comments... and yes, of course they all have a point. it's so hard to decide. even in my current situation i still haven't been able to definitely call it a day although that's the only thing logically possible. OF COURSE i won't go on and have another pg. and a 2-yr-old all on my own at the age of 39 (well, by that time 40! :-( and ruin any possibility of having a life ever again... i won't. but it's difficult to say so, definitely.
and yet, of all the comments, it is V's comment that resonates with me most... it's sooo HONEST.

[cath]

funny. funny. funny. Tertia. You have that way of picking up on something that is prevalent in someone else's mind too.

I've read and reread and reread this. And then read the comments.

I don't think you're done, emotionally. I don't think you're done, because you have so much love to give. I am just not sure if your life can contain all that. I am not sure and I worry that if you're tired now, how much more will it wear you down? I think you don't feel done because it has never been a "normal, have sex, get pregnant, push baby out with heavy breathing and whalesongs playing in background" experience.

I think you and Marko need to look at your lives and your Kate and Adam and, as V said, decide what is best for your family as a whole.

Tough one. Every day I live with the fact that I had to make a choice for the betterment of my family as a whole. And its hard because I never truly know if it's right. I just have to believe.

xxx

[maddy]

It seems like you are longing for another, and not so secretly. ;)

But can you really DO it? Not so easily in your case. So even if you kept the factory open...

Whatever you decide to do, I wish you all the luck. I totally understand about wanting to have another.

[Orange]

Tertia, I think you and are alike in some ways. (G&D, complete assholes, you get the idea.) I was haunted by feeling cheated out of a normal conception, pregnancy, birth experience, and newborn experience for a few years. But in time, I dropped the resentment and the sadness, and you might find that happening in another year or two.

Of course, I had less control over my situation than you do—another pregnancy would be terrible for my health, and it was too much risk to consider taking on. So my choices were (1) continue to feel sad about being cheated or (2) heal. I had no (3) try again option on the table.

I don't think anyone's mentioned this aspect—I would worry about you if pregnancy meant having to quit your AD, and if the adjustment to having less sleep (ack!) and more stress with a new baby put you at greater risk of depression. For your own sake, for the twins, for Marko, keeping depression at bay could be an important consideration.

[Janine]

You know what my answer will be, hey? You're not finished until you're finished. Your sis was the one who showed me that and gave me the courage to carry on. I was pg 6 times - your body can handle it. I'm exhausted most of the time, but it's just a phase. You get your life back eventually. Don't end it physically until you've made the emotional decision to end it.

[BrooklynGirl]

I so totally understand. Even though we're so challenged by the kids we do have, I just can't get myself to call the doctor to get the Mirena. Can't. And I don't know why.

[Ute]

Phew. I have no idea what I would do if I were in your shoes. I can only tell you what I did when I lost that kidney after my son's birth last year and was told that any further pregnancy might... either be life-threatening or else go perfectly well. I chose to be sterilized in the end. No way back for me. For my own, and for the sake of the children I already have.

[Erica]

Just a fyi...one baby is VERY different than twins. I've done both and I adore my twinnies but, they were way more than twice the work. It's a totally different ballgame to have one at a time.
I think you should go for it but, give yourself a timeline. If it doesn't happen with ivf/naturally, whatever you choose, by x date then I'll let go and move on from that part of my life. Having a definite date to me would be important. I couldn't go through the maybe this month for years but, for six months or a year it would be worth it to try to me. Good luck deciding!

[Lauren]

Tertia,

I don't think you are done. It is hard with 3 but the singleton compared to twins is such a healing experience and every baby is different and so unique. I'm done now and feel complete with the 3 I have. I wasn't done before worrying about my frozens. I sometimes wonder if I could have made a 4th but I made that decision getting my tubes tied last time so it is never a concern again. I'm also 40 so I just wanted to be done by the time I'm 40.

One thing to consider is give yourself a time limit. One more year of letting nature give it a try and when you turn 40, give your body back to the drugs to make a normal cycle. For me I didn't want to be pregnant after 40. I just wanted the whole IF thing behind me at that point to live a normal life as a family.

Good luck deciding.

[Wyliekat]

I think that the urge to have another child is just as often related to the aging process as it is to wanting an actual other child.

I'm not an expert by any means, but it seems to me the notion of just "moving on" from your reproductive years makes you feel like you've passed your prime. You're suddenly careening toward crone-dom. And it's frightening to think that way.

Having another child would be a way to stem the tide of aging. It would allow you to recapture that mother/warrior stage of life and avoid the crone.

I don't think it matters what age you're at when you start thinking about closing down the baby factory - I think this sensation affects you at 27 with three kids or 43 with 1, you know? It's a stage of life.

[Ellen]

Which decision might you regret in thirty years? Trying or not trying?

[Artemisia]

No advice. I kept chugging until now, and I think my age has finally answered the question for me. And yet I'll always regret not having a third.

Best of luck, Tertia, whatever you decide.

[blackbird]

Do not shut the factory.
You've got a few years before time and nature will make the choice for you and, if you end up with two beautiful children at 45, you will have an incredible family.

[Ellemenope]

I am 42 with no tubes (hydrosalpynx -- tubes removed for IVF). I have IVF twins that just turned 10. When they were little I was so tired and overwhelmed that another seemed like the last thing on my list. I had the same concerns you do: my age, lack of energy, the expense of raising another -- having to buy a different car that could fit more than 2 kids, heck even buying more chairs to go around our kitchen table. I did an FET 4 years ago that failed. After that I was grateful that I was done. BUT -- now that my girls are 10 I would give my eye teeth to have another. I miss having a child at home. I miss those fun pre-school years. At times I really grieve that I will never hold another baby of my own or nurse again or smell that baby smell. I have no hope, I am 42 and my time is done. I guess my point is, if I were you I would "let it ride" and see what happens. I really wish I would have had that option.

[Amy]

I think the "normal" pregnancy idea is a total myth. I conceived "naturally" after two years of trying, but had PIH (pregnancy induced hypertension) and ended up on bedrest. My second pregnancy was also "naturally" begun, but I had a really weird, rare complication (intrahepatic cholestasis of pregnancy) that could've been life threatening to the baby, and then I got PIH again and had to be induced.

I don't know anyone who has just breezed through all nine months without a problem... Of course, the vast majority of them have good outcomes, but not all of them.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that every pregnancy is some degree of "abnormal," because pregnancy is just this crazy thing we do with our bodies, and there is a lot of potential for things to go wonky. I do know what you mean, though, about wanting to experience a "normal" conception. However, having done both (tried for #1, surprised with #2) I can tell you that it doesn't change how you feel about the kid or anything. In fact, it's just not something that I think about a whole lot - but maybe that's because I've had the luxury of doing it both ways.

I agree with the folks above, that if you're not sure you're done then you're not done, but I also think it's a terrible risk to put yourself in, when your kids need you so much, and Marko needs you so much.

Wow, I'm no help at all. Sorry.

[Valarie]

Wow, very interesting to read all the comments encouraging you to "just keep going", "you know you're not done",etc. I too have boy/girl twins (five year olds) but my daughter is my "challenge". I too spent years trying to get pregnant but was fortunate to not have any miscarriages - just negative pregnancy tests. I too was "older" (36 yrs) when my twins were born. I too have been dealing with depression for many years and have recently found a plan that works for me. I too struggled with the idea of trying to have more kids. Finally, when my twins were about three years old, my partner and I made our 'final' decision to "stop trying" and accept that we would forever be a family of four. Do I still feel sad each time I get my period? yes. Do I miss my twins being babies? yes. Do I still feel that I missed out by not ever having "just one more baby"? yes Do I think that I made the best decision for myself, my partner and my kids? YES
Best of luck to you Tertia!

[thrice]

Ten years from now, when you really don't have a choice, are you going to look back and say "Oh, I am such an asshole? I knew that I really wanted another child or at least I wanted to try" and then you will kick yourself over and over and have to mourn that lost *limited* opportunity. If that will be you, then I think that you should not shut down and learn (if possible) more homeopathic ways of controlling your period. Just think if you are getting new baby hankerings now, what they will be like in 10, 20, 30 years. But those are just my asshat thoughts.

[Chickenpig]

Since I'm sitting here right now the day after my sixth embryo transfer, having had twins 2 years ago, I can hardly give you any assvice :) I am 37, and I want another child, damnit, enough to risk having two, although I really want only one. (there is no way we can get knocked up thinking of England due to hubbies piss-poor wonkie sperm). I think you have to follow your heart. I am very tired of doing this, I'm never doing another fresh cycle again, but there is a chance this transfer has worked and we have 4 more in the freezer. I think that if you feel this strongly, than you should give it one more best shot, or you may regret it.

[Kathy B]

Having never been in your situation (I chose to have just one child,) I really can't give you a "what would you do if you were me" answer. I will say, however, that it appears that you really do want another one. I could have sworn that you had already decided not to try again (after the frozen embryos failed) so hearing you want to discuss this again leads me to believe that you really do want another one.

So, I say go for it!

[Mindy]

I would say give it one more try... or two more tries... til youre 40. Then you'll know you gave it your all, and you'll never have regrets.

[Stefanie]

My first thought is: Tertia with an odd number of kids, yeah right! LOL

So, keep it open, see what happens, but I don't see you with 3 - maybe 4, but you're to anal for odd numbered kids! LOL

And, if I offended anyone, I didn't mean too, Tertia will get it, I know it!

[Lynnette]

Can I just copy and paste this? Seriously, I'm two years older than you, so the need to decide is pressing me too. I think I'm going to keep the option open for one more full year, and then that's it. We move on. I'm not going to let this crap ruin the next 8 years, that's for sure. For me, its not the hormones its the logistics of another DE cycle, anywhere, but especially SA. But all of the other stuff you talk about, age, twins, etc. Yeah, I get that. Oh, to be normal...I'm sure you'll make the best decision for you and your family.

[Egg Donor (ret.)]

Admitting up front that I never want kids, and thus am biased, I'd say close up shop.

I know how you're thinking. I also see reading this that you have described a lot of your motivation as wanting to be normal and have a chance at normal. Let's accept that it isn't going to happen because you have a 100% track record of not being normal with pregnancy and the whole reproductive cycle. Even if you got pregnant the usual way, you wouldn't have a normal pregnancy. Even if it went perfectly. YOU would be completely freaked out about every little thing because you would rightfully be worried that something was going to go wrong (since something always has). You wouldn't just get pregnant and go along happy and content like someone who hasn't gone through what you did. So basically, knowing you and knowing I'm right about this, you really can't have a normal pregnancy, even if the pregnancy is smooth and normal.

So if we totally eliminate the chance of anything except an anxiety ridden, psychologically torturous pregnancy (let alone any physical issues that may arise), do you really want to do this? From what you've written, it sounds like this takes a lot away from it.

And, from all your writing, it sounds like you could really use your life moving back toward clam and stable, not upheaved again with a new baby and with dealing with Adam's reaction to a new baby (Kate, too, but it seems that Adam would be likely to have a strong negative reaction to a new baby).

So looking at your situation, it seems everyone would be happier with the closing up of shop. Trying again seems like, even if it works, it won't get you what you want.

[Dido]

....and may i only add: i wish i was in your shoes, and in such a great situation for closing down (up??) shop - with two kids turning 3 and nearing the light at the end of the tunnel and a hubby who understands you and whom you can still rely on and with so much nice ahead of you....

wow, girl.

[Liza]

I'm not going to touch that question with a ten-foot pole, because it's all you, T. BUT! If you do decide (as I have) to "close up shop," you can have an Intrauterine Ablation and never bleed again without the (small, but present, especially as you, er, I mean, as OTHER PEOPLE age) risks of hormonal BC/regulation. I had the Novasure procedure done, and haven't had a period since (five months and counting). No cramping, no bleeding except (sorry, TMI alert) some verrrrry light spotting the first two months when I would have had my period, lasting only one day, kind of like what they tell you to expect with ovulation spotting, just a light pinkish tinge on the toilet tissue, not enough to wear a pad or anything. I had it done because I have a bleeding disorder and was losing too much blood each month, but much to my delight it also eliminated my endo. cramps from hell, and has somehow also helped with the overall sacroiliac joint issues I tended to have around that time, too. It DOES mean no more pregnancy (and you still have to use BC because if you DO get pregnant after an ablation it will certainly not go well since ablations zap your lining--my husband has a vasectomy so not an issue for me, but since you did manage that one couch miracle you might have to get Marko snipped or something, too, hehehe).

[Lisa S.]

I say stop now. I'm sorry. I know it's not the popular answer. But I am in a similar boat - years of infertility, one healthy pregnancy (one child), always expected to have lots of kids but I have been wrestling with the decision for a while and I know, deep in my heart, it is time to stop. I know, for me and I think is true for you - I fall into a trap when things get easy. At 3 yrs, my son has become much easier. Life is wonderful! So I start looking for a project. I found myself at the RE office for consult the other day. I caught myself - I had to admit, the excitement of the pursuit, the cycling, the pregnancy - all very tempting. But it wasn't about a baby. It was about about a project.

Just think about that - maybe it is what you really want. But see if you can separate the project from the reality.

[Ann]

Hi Tertia

I have been following your blog for a few months and would like to add my ideas now.

I have been married before and had 2 boys naturally (now age 10 and 12). I had sterilization after boy nr 2. Four years later I was divorced and then met a wonderful man who does not have children. We got married 3 years ago and decided to give another child a go. I had a sterilization turn-around a few months ago and am now back in the position of waiting each month to see if I might be pregnant. I am about to turn 39 myself and am longing for a baby on the one side and enjoying my "grown-up" kids on the other side.

The decision to even go for the sterilization turn-around was based on a religious one. We as Christians usually hand all our big decisions over to God and let Him influence our lives - but when it comes to planning the size of our families, we humans decide. It was therefore a step in faith for me to go for the op and to give the size of my family over to God as well. So that is my piece said. I cannot give you any advice since it will be your life that you will be living - with or without more children. I hope that you will find peace in whatever decision you and Marco makes.

[louise]

Gah, I am awful at giving advice. I can't remember...do you have any frozen embryos remaining at all? My brain has turned to mush!! I'll need to go back through your archives now, because I should know this! ;-)

[sheilah]

Now, if I were in your shoes, I would close down the shop. BUT - I have only ever wanted two children and I HAVE had the single baby experience (just not the happy-go-lucky-pregnancy or the create-a-baby-by-couch experience).

As for 'being too tired' or 'being too old' or 'being *whatever*' for another child...I think we rise up to meet whatever challenge confronts us. If you had another child you would find reserves of strength that you didn't know you had.

Your love would provide you the strength.

[Dana]

I can't go through all previous comments but I guess fertiles will have a different take on this than infertiles. I, being an infertile for years, do not see that the benefits of shutting down the system outweigh the down side: the chance of getting pregnant, which you obviously crave; sending more nasty hormones to the system, etc.
The way I see it, the problem might not be the long periods but the anxiety that comes from waiting, right? Is there a way you can work around that?
I wish you the best in your decision.

[Franay]

I'm of the "do nothing" school of thought. After my second son's birth I was asked what form of birth control I would like to be placed on. I said no thank you. I haven't been on chemical or hormonal birth control in more than ten years. I hope to never be on it again. That isn't to say that we aren't cautious, we are. Now that we know we are faced with the decision to try to have another somewhere down the road or not I feel much the same as you. I hold my baby son and think "how could I face never doing this again?" On the other hand, when the day isn't going so well I look forward to him gaining as much independance as his big brother and leaving me alone for periods of time. It's a really tough decision. Do I want to face more fertility drugs, possibly more miscarriages on the road of baby making or do I want to call it quits with two? Honestly, I have no freakin' idea. I hope you find a decision you feel good about! In fact, I hope we both do!

[zerch]

Agree wholeheartedly with V ... but also want to add that a new baby would take away from the attention and time you need to give to Adam (given his sensory issues).

[Andrea]

You know this already, obviously, but I would think hard about what you are chasing: the perfect childbirth experience or another child. If it's the former, give yourself a reality check that there is no such thing as perfect, and quit while you're ahead.
But if you think you do want another child, I say go for it, age, fatigue or money be damned.!

[AmberLB]

I can't give you any advice. I'm muddled and conflicted, but I will speak from my experience. With three kids, I never had a "normal" pregnancy or birth, never got to hold or touch my kids right after they were born, never got to come home with them from the hospital. I've always longed for that. After baby #2, my drs. advised me to close up shop, and I thought I was ready to do so. However, baby #3, our surprise gift, was such a blessing, so amazing, and truly made all of our lives better. There were times I didn't think I could mentally, emotionally, or physically make it through pg. I kind of felt like I was losing my mind, and that experience of constant anxiety was so aging. After I had my baby girl, I finally relented and had my tubes tied, and ended up getting a hysterectomy a bit later.

Yes, I am tired, and older. I felt bad that my older kids had to go through months of the mommy-on-bedrest and mommmy-in-and-out-of-the-hospital thing (a second time for my oldest, poor thing). I felt sorry for my long-suffering husband. My kids, however, have blossomed as big brothers. They love and dote on their little sister, and it is joy to see how lovely they are with her and each other. With 20/20 hindsight, I can see that I didn't go through with sterilization before because I wasn't ready to.

Like Sheilah said, you'll be able to do whatever is needed of you. You will make the right decision for yourself.

P.S. I bled for 186 days of the year before my hysterectomy, and then for four months continuously, immediately before the surgery, even with being on the patch, then the pill, etc. Being a few months out and mostly fully recovered, I can now say I am so glad I did this operation.

[heather]

Hi Tertia, long time lurker who loves your writing. I don't think any of us readers can give you the final answer, but in deciding I think you need to make sure you have separated out a need for wanting a baby to snuggle in response to Adam and Kate growing up versus wanting another child who will eventually be a teenager, adult, etc.

I don't know if I am making myself clear and I am not trying to offend. I guess what I am trying to say is make sure you have figured out the motivation behind wanting to try again. (In an earlier post you mentioned wanting to get another dog; when I read your current post I wondered if that was another type of baby-longing - something to cuddle who will love you unconditionally. That sounds kinda assy as I read it since I am presuming to know your emotions/motivations which I don't, so please forgive me I am not trying to offend.)

For the record, I have twin boys conceived by IVF after trying for 3 years. They are just now turning two. I am 35. I work full time. I am on Anti-depressants and anxiety meds. I have 5 frozen embies, but I know I am done. I already struggle with giving enough attetion to keeping my marriage somewhat stable and trying to make my two boys feel like individuals and tyring to feel like a competent mother. I have no internal resources for another, but these are my issues and everyone is different.

If you feel like you need a third baby to complete your family (as opposed to getting back a sweet period in your children's lives - ok, two year olds, not so sweet, but babies can be yummy) maybe you should try it or you may regret it. My assvice is to figure out the "why" and the rest will hopefully become somewhat clear.

[Geohde]

I've vowed never to go back on contraception, even if hubby and I manage to concieve on our own. I'd consider it a happy suprise. But your bleeding thing got me thinking because thats what my body likes to do, unmedicated.

hmmm

J

[Chrissy]

I have to add my 2 cents, after 4 years of infertility many ivf's yadda yadda yadda (all negative), we finally have 1 son who is 10 months old and adopted, the shop is shut, i will never do treatments again, i just cant. Yes i'm sad that i will never be pregnant but my son has helped heal that. We would like 2 kids so will put in a profile to adopt again, if it happens excellent, if not then i'm ok with that, i almost feel like asking for another is greedy, as we've been so blessed as it is. I think at some point you have to let go of the regrets for what you didnt have and be happy with what you have.

[kristylynne]

It sounds to me like in your heart, you want another child. Therefore, birth control, although convenient, would be contraindicated.

But more to the point, how will you deal on a daily basis with the tiny possibility that you might get pregnant, and the sadness if you don't? Does this cause you stress every month? As a fellow infertile with an almost zero percent chance of conceiving naturally, every period causes a new round of disappointment, even though I am well aware that the odds of a natural pregnancy are astronomically bad. I sometimes think it would be nice to rule out that possibility altogether, so that I can mentally move on.

[Auburn]

In my mind I just don't think wanting a chance at a normal conception/pregnancy/baby expereince is a good enough reason to have another child. I'm not saying you don't really want another child or that that is your only motivator...just saying that for me, I had to seperate the two in my mind and decide which was the stronger force at work.

Take a minute and picture your life with a teenage Adam and Kate. Picture the four of you taking a nice family vacation or sitting around together having dinner. Does that picture make you sad if it doesn't include another, slightly younger child? Picture life when you and Marco are older and Adam and Kate are out of the house and away at College. Think about Adam and Kate dating and marrying and having children of their own. Think about you and Marco, retired, traveling to some exotic place and writing postcards home to your kids.

Then decide if there is another person missing from those images or if they feel complete as a family of four. If there is a sense of emptiness there, of regret, a question mark of what could have been floating around in all those images then maybe you aren't done and need to let things play out in their natural course in order to really feel satisfied. But if those images feel like a full, happy family then you are probaby done. Seperating myself from the babylust was the only way I felt comfortable making family planning decisions...because that baby thing...damn it is a strong desire (biological as well as emotional)! But when I really think about it there is a lot I want out of life besides children. I want to travel, I want to retire while I'm young enough to enjoy it, I want the resouces to help my kids through college and even beyond if they need it. Having a big family would hinder all of those things. I twould bring it's own joys of course but when I close my eyes and really imagine my future, two just feels right for me.

Good luck...it sure isn't easy is it?

[Suzie-Q.]

You're not done, or, you wouldn't still be posting about it. And, this is not the first time you have asked our opinion on various topics related to whether you should try for another.
I would try as hard as I could for another ONE. I would stop wasting time talking about it and get on the stick, girl!
Just Say Yes!
I think you will always regret it if you dont' try until you drop. That just seems like your personality to me, and, you very clearly WANT MORE CHILDREN.
Do it. Do it. Do it. Do it.
NOW!
We will be here to listen to you when you are up at all hours of the night again feeding your third child!

[Andrea]

Respectfully, I must disagree with Auburn's "think about the future" advice. Yes, we are all wise to plan for our retirements, save money and work towards the life we want in the future.
However all this should not overshadow what we want in the present. None of us know what the future has in store for us, whether we will still be married to our current spouses, whether we will remain in the town we're in now, or what other good or bad fortune might come our way. Our best way of approaching life (assuming we're not too reckless) is to think about the here and now. If you want more children now, chances are, you will never regret that.
To say picture your life in 20 years suggests that we have a clue what are life will look like in 20 years. We don't. Sort of reminds me of the woman who wrote in to Dr. Phil in Oprah magazine saying she didn't have the maternal urge now but was worried she'd regret it when all her friends were grandparens. His response: there's a lot of diapers and sleepless nights between now and grandparent time!

[~Kari]

I would have to try again, if I even had the slightest inkling that might want another. I couldn't stand the "what if..." ten years down the line.

[Ashley]

Oh, wow. Does this sound familiar. We had twins after IVF with ICSI, and now we're trying to figure out our future. I don't feel done, but I don't think that that's my choice. I'm not up for more ART, because if we're successful and we have extra embryos, I, personally couldn't donate or destroy them. So I think we'll try a bit on our own, try once with our one frozen embryo, and then try again for a very specific time period. And then that's it.

With the toughest decisions, I try imagining myself in the future looking back. I think, in this case, I need to try; but within reason. Otherwise, if I were to go on and on trying, I think I'd look back and ask myself why I put myself through all that stress when I should have just been happy with what I had and enjoy my kids.

And when we stop trying, that's it. It has to be a full stop. I can't go through month after month of "not trying," and being so heartbroken inside every time I get my period.

That's what I'm planning at this point. Not sure if any of this is useful for you. I do think you're pretty amazing, though, and wish you the best in this.

[Jen]

Tertia, this post is exactly what I have been struggling with for the last 2 yrs. I have 2 yr old twins (b/g) and never went back on birth control after they were born. I always wanted to try for more (and still want to), but it has taken a huge emotional toll. I have found that dealing with infertility the second time around has been much, much harder than the first time. I have bigger highs and lows every month (the hope that this will finally be the month, and the devestation when it doesn't happen). Then I feel guilty that I feel this way because everyone tells me that I already have the "perfect" family with a boy and a girl so why try to change it. In real life I have no other friends who are dealing with secondary infertility (they either are infertiles who aren't trying or super-fertiles who just think about getting pregnant and do), so I have been isolating myself from them as well.

My husband is really supportive (just like Marko), and he asked me a very important question the other night: Is my desire to get pregnant again just that? To have a "normal" pregnancy this time? Or to have a baby who hopefully won't be born at 27 weeks and have to stay in the hospital for 10 or 14 weeks? Or to prove that my body actually isn't a piece of crap for reproductive purposes? Or for the sincere desire to have another child in our house? I can honestly answer: all of the above.

Is this a good answer? I don't know. But every month I ask myself if I am done, and every month my heart tells me I'm not, even though mentally and physically I am spent. I know if I were to officially stop trying now I would always resent not trying when it still "could" happen. Only you can decide what your heart is telling you, and then decide if the physical and emotional consequences are worth it.

[erika]

First time commenting, long-time reader. I have twins, boy/girl also, and am 20 months postpartum and everything still feels out of whack. So part of my plan, before I have any more children (and *if*) is to get myself feeling balanced again. We twin moms have a pretty stressful time of it (pregnancy, the early, sleep-deprived years, special needs kids, etc) and you throw the IVF drugs in, the other meds we might take--our bodies are pretty out of balance, I bet. It seems like you are also out of balance, from what you write. I had a remarkable response to acupuncture and eastern medicine w/my cycles, supporting the pregnancy, and recovery from the pregnancy--Randine Lewis's book about fertility is a good one to look at--but I would really try to find a practitioner who could support you in getting balanced, and then make your decision. Eastern medicine, from my experiences, can balance out the kidneys/adrenals...which is also the "seat" of fertility. So make yourself better all over, and perhaps have another child out of it? It's worth a shot, best of both worlds. This is obviously the very truncated version. Happy to email more info if you are interested.

[Simonne]

T, IF is a long hard road, and everyone's journey is a different one because we all think, feel and 'deal' differently.

For myself, I'd stop the factory. There is a chance, yes, and that chance will drive you insane just by being. A chance is not necessarily a positive thing, or a beacon of hope.

I conceived once, on my own, nearly 3 years ago, and I held onto that until it almost drove me mad and cost me my marriage. Now, I'm booked in for my first IVF cycle, but I have my quality of life back.

Ask youself T, how much of your life and yourself do you want to give to the factory?

[Simonne]

Oh, and obviously, hugs and kisses, it's a difficult decision you have to make for both yourself and your family.

[Carol]

Wow, I totally can't relate, because I have one boy and one girl, and to me, that's the perfect family. (Besides, I'm 42 and TIRED). But as I told my friend who also had one of each and had to do IVF to have her third, everyone has their own picture of an ideal family in her/his head, and your picture might be different than mine. Only you know how many kids are in your picture.

[victoria]

There was something about this post that I found vaguely troubling. I couldn't put my finger on it. Then it occurred to me that what was odd about this post was, Why is Tertia so torn? Lots of 39 year old women (with some ambivalence) would like a third child and decide to let nature decide the matter.

Then I realized, (correct me if I'm wrong) that it's almost as though you don't feel entitled to what everyone feels entitled to. You're disqualified -- by the body that's let you down, by your years of suddering, by all the money that's gone into the whole pregnancy project. It's as though you don't feel entitled to hope or ask for the things that other people take for granted -- like the right to take a chance on a late third kid.

Maybe I'm misreading your post. Maybe none of that is in there. Forgive me if I got it wrong.

But if I read it right, or partly right, my feeling (as a 42 y.o. with no kids, never will have kids who doesn't know what the hell she's talking about) is, go for it. Take a shot at what just about every married woman your age that I know is doing -- try for a third.

I know anecdotal evidence is crap, but a friend who'd struggled with infertility and had trouble conceiving her first two (though her struggle was nothing like the nightmare you went through -- just a few miscarriages and several years TTC with some limited medical intervention each time before falling pregnant) completely accidentally got pregnant with her third at 40 and had him at 41 and everything went fine.

Plus, you know, your very infrequent ovulations might mean that your ovarian reserves are still relatively fat for your age.

I don't know. I'm probably a total ass monkey for even reacting to your post when I don't know anything about what motherhood or infertility is like.

[victoria]

Sorry, by "your years of suddering" I meant, "your years of suFFering."

[DebbieS]

IMHO, the only really troubling thing about having a baby as an "older" mom is the possibility of putting the baby down and then forgetting where you left him! With everything else you have to deal with, let that be the last thing to stop you. You're quicker, savvier, better-educated and more financially stable than many women 10 or 15 years younger. Youth is by no means the only advantage when parenting a child. As for energy- well, I'm 36, but I take better care of myself than when I was 26, so I think that how well you safeguard your health is more important than your chronological age.

In your heart, you don't feel "done". I guess if I were you, I'd try and deal with the awful cycle problems in a way that didn't impact my fertility, and TTC up to the point where it would be statistically a long shot even for a woman with out prior infertility issues. Nothing ventured, nothing gained, right? Look at it this way: you already have your "happy ending" of Adam and Kate. Nothing wrong in trying to draft a sequel =)

And if it doesn't work...maybe you will have one grandchild at a time to spoil instead! (I'm going to duck and run before you chuck some exotic South African fruit at me..)

[CathyY]

My hunch is for you to close up shop and focus on your family as-is. I know you are a driven person and it shows in your successes in life, which makes the decision to not push forward difficult. I can relate, I'm the same way. I'd hate to see you get so preoccupied with conception and pregnancy that your focus drifts from the twins and you find yourself feeling as though you've missed a special time in their lives. Does that make sense? I wish you well whatever your decision!

[Luna]

Just wanted to point out that if you do try and you're successful (big if, I know), by the time any hypothetical third baby arrives, Adam and Kate will likely be at least 4. Older, spending more time at preschool/kindergarten, and slightly less exhausting (maybe?). It's not like you'll have two toddlers and a newborn, a thought which makes me, at least, want to go and hide under a chair somewhere! :)

The only advice is to echo what a few others have said : go to the doc and see if you can get your cycles sorted out. Apart from being annoying, the extra long periods could be making you anaemic or iron deficient which would certainly contribute to tiredness.

[Mig]

OK, your question is not addressed to women who have no kids - I am one of them, but I would still adventure an answer. Let the nature take its course. Life is full of surprises, some not the happiest ones. Oh, no. I am not telling you to have another child. I am telling you to stay away from the damn Mirena. It scares me only to think about it. Have you read the Warnings&Precautions?

[heleen]

Hi Tertia, lots of older mums with twins are responding to your post today. All really tired. Some longing for another one, some healed by the experience of having a surprise singleton.

We made one ectopic on the couch, one on the campsite. The first weeks of being pregnant were so exciting, the weeks after finding out so devastating. My IVF twins were my gifts that healed me. And indeed made me really tired.

For me the choice of having more natural pregnancies was simple: At the same time of the C-section the shop was closed: my damaged tubes were taken out. No more surprises. Which ofcourse doesn't mean that I couldn't go through the whole IVF thing again.

I'd love to be pregnant again. But I'm not sure on an experience level if I would like another child. There are so many nice things I can do with my life. Not sure if I would have enough time and attention for one more. What makes it a bit of a non issue is that my husband has two older kids as well. He definitely doesn't want any more.

Asking Marko is a very good advice. If he is passionate for another baby you both could work on this together and also deal with it if it doesn't happen or something goes wrong.

Thinking that your kids will not be able to deal with #3 I don't think is a very valid thing at all. It might be really good for them... But of course pets or anything else to care for and to be responsible for is important too.

As a regular reader of your blog I would be thrilled for you to have another baby. With all the ups and downs this will bring. Good luck and wisdom.

[Callie R]

I vote for closing up shop. I have a 7 year old son and a 4 year old daughter and they are so self sufficient and so much fun. I shudder to think of sleepless nights and dirty diapers again. Just my POV.

[Veronica]

I think if I was in your situation, I would secretly be hoping for more children too.

Sorry I can't be of more help, go with what your gut tells you. If your gut says wait, then wait. Or vice versa. Good luck!

[Emily]

Well, you have lots of oppinins and I didn't read them all, but IMO, if you think you might want another child, I'd give it a shot for a certain amount of time, say until your 40th?, and then close the shop. But if you are going to try, I'd up your odds. I also have PCOS and have really wonky cycles. But I have a few normal cycles just off the pill. I got pregnant twice just off the pill, though once ended in m/c. So my assvice for the day is 3 months on the pill followed by 3 months off, or longer if you have normal cycles still. Chart the off months ans see what happens.

I know you went through so many losses before A&K, but I think the m/c after makes a third child all the more tempting. I'd been pretty set on one until my m/c then I just needed another. And I was lucky. It's like the m/c makes you say, oh, so my body can get at least that first step on it's own, why not the rest.

Well, I rambled enough. Good luck with your decision.

[jenny]

I'll be in your shoe's someday soon (we have two frosties to try before deciding what to do) and I have no idea what I'll do. It is a hard decision and nobody but you can decide what is right. I wish I had the answer.

[Flower Fairy]

What does your gut instinct say? Take a moment, lie down if possible, think of an extra kid, what does your stomach do, does it clench, is it relaxed? Your body will tell you. You can also use the same imagery as Aubern. Listen to your body.

If I were you on the one hand I would think honestly you have two G&D kids already, why more but you have the urge and that cannot be quietened. So go for it! Tiredness etc etc - so what can deal with that. Give yourself a deadline and for you I would say age would be the thing - so 40?? or even 40.5. Don't want spoil your entry into the 40s by saying this is when I decided no more kids I am too old if it has not worked by then. Perhaps time to visit Vicky again to see if she can regulate your periods?

PS What does Marko think?

[claire]

I struggled with this dilemma myself a few years ago. My daughter was around 5, and I wanted another so badly. My husband was not in agreement, and I waited patiently for him to change his mind. Never happened. Now my daughter is almost 11, and now I am so happy that he never came around. Parenting is HARD - especially these pre-teen years. For me, one is enough. The next best thing would be twins - I wouldn't have to go through the tough stages twice! I am sure you'll be happy no matter what happens :-)

[Katherine]

It sounds to me like this post is about owning whatever decision you make rather than letting whatever happens happen. If you are going to have another child, you want it to be a thoughtful and informed decision rather than one that fate decides for you. This sound perfectly reasonable to me. it's much better to go into a situation with your eyes wide open rather than react to it off the cuff.

Only you can know how much more you can take. And then even if you do decide you are up for trying again, there is still the possibility you don't wind up with a third child since you are running out of time. I think you need to weigh the potential impact of a third child (and would you decide to do more IVF or hope for another natural conception?) versus quitting while you are ahead. This isn't something you have to decide today or tomorrow. I would let it sit in the back of your mind for a few weeks or months and let the decision come to you.

And as far as the wacky cycles go, definitely look into hormone therapy that regulates but still allows ovulation. If that works, then it shouldn't be a deciding factor in the more babies decision.

[Jodie]

Feel like a dick giving advice on this one because it's the old cliche but only you know what will work for you.

I guess my biggest thing about having another child is to think, solely, "Do I want a 3 child family?". Everything else is pretty temporary. I normal pregnancy and birth is over before you know it. The early sleepless nights pass (eventually!). The only real consideration is do you want 3 kids in your life? You and I grew up in families of more than two, so we know all the plusses and minuses. Personally I loved it. But, with Adam's issues, your job, marriage etc - do you want to devote the extra time? Will 3 make it harder to travel? To send the kids to private schools and help them out when they leave home?

That's what I think about anyway. Sometimes these decisions are just thrown to the wind to see where they land. And there is NOTHING wrong with that either!

[Lauraszoo]

If I were you...I would pick a date, say, oh, my 40th birthday and call it quits then. That gives you a concrete date and some more time to get used to the idea. Until then, suffer with the freaky cycles and try like mad for a baby, but really, you are giving "fate" one last chance. Good luck!

[Andrea]

I have PCOS, and infertility has been a constant companion in my life for several years now, so I understand. I think you really hit the nail on the head, too - some people don't even have a CLUE what suffering through infertility is like. For example, our church's youth pastors (wonderful people, by the way) shared with the DH and I (the last weekend of June) that they were "thinking about having another baby." Okay, so between the end of June and the middle of August, she got pregnant. That quickly. Now, if I could do that, I'd have like twenty babies now - ha!

Thanks to PCOS, I really can relate to your cycles. I always tell my friends that most women complain about having periods and wish they'd go away. I, on the other hand, just wish I could have a normal one every now and then. Sorry if TMI, but I, too, tire of missing a period for three or four months only to have it show up and hang around for TWENTY FOUR DAYS. I didn't even know a person could BLEED that much.

So, when do you stop? Well, I think it's easy for outsiders to judge that, to say you're getting too old, too tired or too worn out. But Tertia, the truth is that only you know the answer. Only you can tell where your boundaries lie. So my suggestion? Take a look at your life and decide at what age you're willing to still have a child in the house - are you okay with having a kid graduate high school (or what it is you call it there) when you're 58? 60? 65? Look at your future, and not just the here and now. If you're willing to set that for your future, then keep trudging along. If not, then it may be time to close up shop and start a new chapter in your life.

[old hag]

I have a dreadful pregnancy history, stillbirth, m/c of various flavours.

I have 2 living children and when I was in my late thirties I would have loved a third baby. If my children had not been busy being dx'ed with every syndrome known to man (that was how it felt at the time) and my dh hadn't been descending into bipolar, I would have tried again.

But YK 5 years later and it is OK. I'm nearly 45 and it doesn't haunt me, I don't have the big what ifs, there's no sense that I will go to my deathbed still grieving not having tried let alone succeeded.

Regret is a choice and it's not necessarily something that will last for decades. It's possible to move past infertility and just be mildly wistful at times.

[Wenchy]

Ja nee. Ek weet nie............. sjoe..... I would say to enjoy Kate and Adam after all the many tears and heartache you have suffered.... I just don't want you to hurt anymore.

[Adine]

I think the question should read: can you handle another TTC mentally, rather than physically?

Good luck to whatever your decision, but in the meantime, adore those 2 beauties you already have!

[CariP]

Do you mind if I just take your post, change a few details, and put it on my blog? Seriously...I have been wrestling with the same issue and trying to decide what to do as well regarding b/c and "shutting the factory down." I wish I had some advice. Think about it, pray about it (or ask sister Mel to!) and then go with your gut.

[Alex]

I few weeks back when posting about Adams sensory issues you linked back to the post when an unfortunate incident resulted in two cracked ribs for Marko. I followed that link (it sounded like a funny story). In the PS of that post you mentioned his upcoming sperm donation. I was curious, I wondered it this was the attempt that resulted in Adam and Kate, so I kept reading, post by post. Turns out it did, and over the course of a couple of days I read from that post forward to when Adam and Kate were about 6 months old. It was an amazing journey!

I don't have nor have I tried to have children, so I can't comment from experience, but I can from reading your journey. Although one child would be different, in pregnancy & in the first months no doubt, there is no gauruntee that it will be easy, especially given your history with pregnancies. The amount of time you spent in bed rest, worrying, upset, with DBT's and etc was more manageable then because it was only you and Marko, but now that would affect Adam and Kate also. I might be saying the same thing as V, but a difficult pregnancy will make raising the children you already have difficult.

That said, in your shoes (assuming Marko is as keen), I'd give it a timeframe to keep trying, a year or so, probably not more, especially if I could get something that regulated the periods ...

[Denise]

I have only ever lurked... and this is my first post.
Tertia, you have been an inspiration to me for you continued on with percerverance, dedication, and with faith until you were granted the most wonderful gift x2.
I will be 40 in February... I have been off birthcontrol since I was 27.
My husband and I have UNEXPLAINED Infertility. I have had 2 IVF's and 2 FET's and to date no success. I have done acupuncture, chinese herbs, and every other natural method out there. I will be on to my next IVF in the New Year and I will continue until my dream, my most wanted gift from the Universe is a reality. To me age is only a chronological number and you are as young as your heart says you are.
If I had already been granted 2 gifts would I want a 3rd? I can't answer that... as I am still waiting for my first. Only you can decide if the 2 gifts you have are enough. Whatever you decide, remember to slow down and enjoy the roses while you continue your journey... because before you know it this time will be long in the past.... and you will never be able to enjoy it again once it is gone.

[Linda]

I would never tell you what to do, but since I have 3.5 year old twins from IVF and a surprise "bonus baby" who's 2 months old, I can relate. I decided to wait until my twins were 5 to make a permanent decision. If we didn't have a spontaneous pregnancy by then, I was shutting everything down.

I will point out, however, that having a singleton at this stage does not mean you get to "focus all your attention on ONE baby." It means you have to juggle THREE children. Yes, a singleton is much easier than twins, but I still have my 3-year-olds that need care and attention, too, and it's a circus around here.

Now that my youngest is here, I am thrilled, and it's fun to do everything (even the sleeplessness) all over again. It is not as consuming this time around and I worry so much less. Plus, a full-term (39 week, 6 day) baby is a BREEZE to take care of. However, I can see the appeal of having 2 kids the same age, not having to deal with different developmental stages, sleeping all night long . . . just moving into the stage of an older family and all the fun you get to do.

[Stacey]

Hi Tertia - I don't reply much, but I ALWAYS read to see how you are. You are a wonderful delight to read and I look forward to reading what you and the fam are up to.

I have been blessed with 4 absolutely perfect smelly, rambunctious, loud, obnoxious little boys. After the first two, I felt some sort of societal push to stop and enjoy my average sized family. But my heart told me otherwise, and my third one came into the world almost 4 years later, screaming with a headful of red wavy hair. I love him to PIECES.

Then 8 months later, I got the surprise of my life when I found out #4 was on the way. I cried. I mourned my 3rd baby's babyhood. I didn't think I could handle another one, as my hands (and I thought, my heart) were full. But, I felt a peace that all would be well. And it was. My 4th is a peaceful, happy, loving mix of joy and spice that I never would have planned... but I'm so glad someone else planned him for me, if you will. I didn't even realize my heart wasn't full until he arrived and I see now exactly what I felt a longing for all these years: my complete, full, chaotic, amazing family.

I honestly do not mourn the loss of any balance or any parts of myself. I've chosen to see my life and the components thereof as the blessing they are and not wonder otherwise.

What to do with the future of your family is up to you and Marko. I can't wait to see what you do choose and continue to enjoy the cyber-ride. You are a truly remarkable woman.

[Wendy]

I know, without a doubt, that I do not want to have any more children. It took me about 2 to 3 years after my youngest son was born to feel this - but nothing can change my mind.
My only advice is to think of what your daily life would be like with #3 - how would your children adapt? your husband? Rose?
I wish you luck in making your decision.

[Ally]

I'm having a similar dilemma, and my formerly trusty periods (still was a bitch conceiving my son) have officially gone wonky. I'm 37, and I keep thinking it must be too soon, but in my heart, I think I'm done. Still, I keep poking along, month to month, knowing an IUD would make my life easier and sex better, and yet, I've been waffling for a year and a half.

[lori]

Just a reader. I had two boys in early 30s and thought I was done. But as I got closer to 40, I decided I wanted a 3rd. My husband was NO WAY, but I pushed, pushed... And at 39 got pregnant with my little baby boy. I AM SO GLAD I DID IT AND PUSHED AND I WOULD NOT CHANGE A THING! My husband adores him, my 8 and 6-year olds love him and he is a joy, he is my dessert, my candy. YOU ONLY LIVE ONCE. Do it for YOU - it is your life. You will never regret having another child, but you would always regret not having one. The third child decision is prevalent among my friends. They have all struggled with it, and luckily all have had another. Don't give up Tertia. I have heard women who are done talk and they don't wonder about another.

[Emma]

I would say, search your heart and do what it tells you. There are no garuntees, but there never were. There are no more garuntees for a woman in her twenties beginning to think of becoming a mommy than there are for you. YOU just know the risks, and the statistics. You know anything can happen.

After our second child was born with Leukemia, and went through the horrors of chemo and bone marrow transplant it seems mad to want another. But I do. I feel afraid of what people might think - that they might judge I am risking all I have (which is two beautiful girls , one of which is a sweet inspirational cancer surivor). I am also 37 going on 38 soon... I am afraid but I wonder too what it would be like to love three. I have given myself a deadline, a deadline is a good way to tell yourself when the decision has been made for you - pick a date.

[Ruta]

One thought to add to all of the comments: the Mirena is not permanent or even long-term. Yes, it can stay in for 5 years. But it can also be removed at any point that you want it out. If you decide in 6 months or a year to give it that shot, it comes out, no problem.

I've had the Mirena for 2 months now and got it in part because I cannot rule out the possibility of #4 sometime in the future (am 36 now). Absolutely not now, our kids are too little (6, 4, 1) but maybe in a couple years, or maybe not. Mirena, IMO, is perfect for that. We decide, it pops out with no problem and no lingering effects. Of course, then there's the getting/staying pregnant part, but I'll leave that alone for now.

We're also batting around the bio vs. adopted issue as well -- our 6 yo is adopted, and given all of our difficulties, if we do this again, we may go the adoption route again. Husband is more open to adoption, is pretty set against another bio kid. Lots of soul-searching all around to be done. :-)