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(Sorry posted this accidentally in yesterday's comments)

Tertia, your love for your children comes across loud and clear, we all know that and it is fantastic to see!

Absolutely nobody is perfect, nor are they perfect parents, children, husbands, wives or friends. (Or commenters ha!).

While you may do something one way, I'll do it another and someone else will do it yet another. Doesn't make any of us wrong, or more right than the others.

With regards to your post, I think you were trying to explain the magnitude of your love for your kids. And it was fun and whimsical.

However after re-reading Angela's comment that started all this, er, 'healthy debate', I have to say I thought she was polite and 'perhaps' had a point. I say perhaps because it was true what she said, but the context of your post didn't warrant it (if that makes sense). So it would have been a valid point if you'd said "so I left the kids in the bath and skipped off to the shops".

We all do things we know would be frowned on by others (not saying that you did in this instance) and this has all come too soon after you'd opened your heart and soul up to commenters about Adam.

Nobody is kicking you when you are down.

Chin up Tertia, you are brave to write so openly and honestly about your life, I certainly appreciate it.

Louise.

I am sorry folks can be such shits... so why, pray tell, give them so much energy? They will, after all, always choose to be so contrary.

I think you are a great writer, and a bloody good mother. I love your Adam and Kate stories!

I do have to agree with a comment above about history repeating. You post, most love what you say. One person posts something vaguely provocative. A few people wade in to your defence and it gets a bit nasty. You post about how mean people are and how hard blogging is and how you want to quit and then hundreds post saying "please don't change, please don't stop blogging". This has happened many times now. I think if we just took the negatives as valid comments we might not agree with and move on then the world would be a happy place.

One other thing, do you remember a discussion about whether or not a person should tell a parent that there might be something wrong with their child? You said you really appreciated someone suggesting Adam might have sensory issues. And you said you felt you should tell a friend that her child might have issues because it was better to slightly offend than risk the child not getting help. I completely, utterly disagreed with this. As a parent of a special needs child I am so sick of well meaning people telling me that he needs therapy when he is in 4 kinds of it. And I even understand parents who want to stick their heads in the ground a little longer and pretend that everything is OK. But I knew that you and everyone else who said they would say something said it out of concern for the child and I respected that. It was pointing out something that they thought the parent might not know.

That said, I loved your post about your kids and for the record I do leave mine briefly unattended. Keep blogging and try not to see "negative" comments as having any bearing on your parenting because really none of us out here knows you at all. We just like to think we do :)

I really do see both side here - I'm the type to get a bit defensive and feel like I'm getting nitpicked/kicked when I'm down and my knee jerk reaction is a bit of sarcastic humor, humor that often get misinterpreted. Sigh. I id feel like the original water safety comment was meant in a nice way but I also felt like "come on do you really think I don't know the risk and act accordingly?"

Hope this all blows over soon and that you never go beige.

Here in the US ;), I find you very funny!

For the record, this is a different Andrea than the person who commented earlier.
But I gotta say .... jeez.
My daughter is only an infant so I don't know how I will manage the toddler bathroom situation. I do know, however, that if someone had pointed out something about infant safety, however obvious, I would not have taken offense.
I am the type of person who sometimes hands out -- and also appreciates hearing this sort of "just in case you didn't know" advice. Why? Because every day, chidren of parents who are smart and intelligent and loving die for some dumb accident that could have been preventable. We are all fallible and we all stand to be reminded how we just can't be too cautious.
Tertia, I understand that this whole series of comments is coming on the heels of earlier posts where you felt a bit overwhelmed by the challenges of being a parent to a sensitive son, and I appreciate that any comment that even hints at bad parenting can be hurtful.
But, I don't think Angela meant it that way, and once again, I think you waaaay overreacted to some of the people who supported her.
In case you haven't figured this out already, you are never going to get 100 percent agreement from any post. You encourage people to express their opinions, but it certainly does not sound genuine by the way you lash out so hard at those who do.
I have no idea whether you need to be more attentive in the bathroom, but maybe, just maybe, you do. And it doesn't mean you are a bad parent. Just that you are a stressed and busy parent who is human.
Why do you always see the 5 - 10 % of comments that are ever so slightly critical and not the 90 % that constantly tell you how you are a great mom, goregous, wonderful, bla bla bla. Guess what? None of these people -- except maybe the ones who have met you -- really know whether you are a good mom, or not. Why do you seek so much validation from people in cyberspace?
As a fellow writer, I've posted before on this. Criticism, or contrary opinions come with the territory. And if you are smart, you will listen to them, assuming they are not below the belt.
Nothing Angela said was at all below the belt -- or even below the neckline! I wish I could say that for all your supporters who bullied her!

Oh and I also think -- in all due respect for the truly horrible time you had conceiving -- that it's time to stop using the infertility card.
Infertiles love their kids no more or less than people go get knocked up on their honeymoon. Parenthood is a whole new chapter.

Andrea. You're wrong about that. Parenting after infertility IS different.

Parenthood may be a new chapter, but that doesn't mean you magically forget the rest of the book. It stays with you and helps you form opinions and thoughts about your current situation regardless of how wonderful or not parenthood turns out to be.

If you are infertile I think you should be praised for how well you've come out the other side, but not everyone escapes intact. And if you're not infertile, I'd encourage you to take your hands away from the keyboard and refrain from speaking of things you know nothing about.

"...You've misled people recently too in letting them believe you've gotten mean feedback when in fact you didn't, it just wasn't total 100% agreement with what you hoped they would say..."

Yes.

Yes to the fact that children of loving, attentive parents die or are harmed in preventable accident. They loved their children just as much as you love yours.

Yes to the history repeating itself here on your blog.

How many times do you need dozens of strangers to tell you how fab you are? To use posts that were made out of nothing but concern as your jumping off point seems especially mean.

If you want a comments section that only allows positive feedback, then set that up. It's your blog.

Miscarriage, two years of treatment, made temporarily infertile by my doctors' stupid recommendations of cyst-causing clomid, I have spent entire weeks of my life crying. And, no, I don't think I love my daughter any more than my sister, who conceived the very day I miscarried!

Ha, ha I think this hilarious, how many more cans of worms will be opened on this topic.

I agree with Bad Foster Mom.

My husband is an adopted child and he was definitely raised differently, sometimes in bad ways and sometimes in good ways, more love less discipline, but he turned out rather fantastic. My mother in law (a social worker) has also confirmed this many times in things that she has said to me during my strugle to conceive (still struggling).

Once an infertile always an infertile, it becomes part of the grain of your fabric. So Tertia pull this card as many times as you like, you've earned the stripes.

Tertia,

I love you, I've read you for years, am a fellow long term IFer, but this was a bit out of character for you... By now you should be used to these kind of sideswipe posts from somebody who just doesn't quite get it, but meant well. The others said it better than I, but that's what 'Comment' sections often get used for, it happens all over the net...

Come on, it wasn't such a bad thing to say, just kind of dull and humorless... but to cause all this by coming on and doing the last two posts, feeding the fire?

I love you, but this was just kind of *mean* Tertia, it was. Just not like you. You've always been someone who keeps such a positive blog atmosphere going by being someone who is able to coast over those kinds of things. If I was Angela and came back and saw this I would be so full of hurt, pain and embarrassment. Yes, the original infraction was hers, if you want to label it as such, but the reaction? Way too much... unfairly too much... Feel like I've watched a bunch of mean girls ganging up on someone back in middle school.

You've been thru a lot in the last few weeks, and I know you'll get your equilibrium back...

long and faithful reader who hates beige...

Tertia,

I love you, I've read you for years, am a fellow long term IFer, but this was a bit out of character for you... By now you should be used to these kind of sideswipe posts from somebody who just doesn't quite get it, but meant well. The others said it better than I, but that's what 'Comment' sections often get used for, it happens all over the net...

Come on, it wasn't such a bad thing to say, just kind of dull and humorless... but to cause all this by coming on and doing the last two posts, feeding the fire?

I love you, but this was just kind of *mean* Tertia, it was. Just not like you. You've always been someone who keeps such a positive blog atmosphere going by being someone who is able to coast over those kinds of things. If I was Angela and came back and saw this I would be so full of hurt, pain and embarrassment. Yes, the original infraction was hers, if you want to label it as such, but the reaction? Way too much... unfairly too much... Feel like I've watched a bunch of mean girls ganging up on someone back in middle school.

You've been thru a lot in the last few weeks, and I know you'll get your equilibrium back...

long and faithful reader who hates beige...

ok there's too many comments to read, so here's my 2c worth:
love your blog
i love your humour
fuck the rest
cheerio!!

Hi Tertia,

I don't have much to add, I'm one of those infertiles who wonder if having children really is worth all the heart ache of infertility. But please don't stop blogging!!! You're a GREAT mom. You'll just have to try and ignore the insensitive comments that people spout. I also know that being infertile we have to deal with a lot of unsolicited advice, it comes with the territory, I really try to ignore them, and secretely wish I could punch their lights out. Some people just think they are the only ones who knows everthing, and everyone else needs to be converted to their way of thinking.
You're doing a great job!!!!

Storm in a tea cup.

Storm in a bathtub.

Tertia, your cue to laugh!!

(People get so intense)!!

K, cool. Heard it, got it. Have moved on. Everyone cool with that? xx

Yep. Cool with that. Tally-ho!

I just wanted to say, that you give us a will to live you give me hope and you tell it how it is!! thank you


I'm a regular reader but rarely comment. I don't have children and am not to the best of my knowledge infertile but I can easily recognise and perhaps even predicted Tertias response to Angela's and others' comments.

Imagine if you are somewhat down & emotional. You put a lot of time and effort into making something beautiful and special, for yourself and for those around you. You sit back and admire your work feeling a sense of pride. You put that on display and the second person to see it finds fault somewhere that you hadn't even noticed, and points that out to everyone? About any subject matter, but probably more so parenting, that hurts.

Water safety is important, but if people had concerns about Tertias attention to it there are other ways it could be brought up than in a comment that misses 99% that is right with the post and zooms in on the 1% that is unclear and could be construed as wrong. Tact & Sensitivity would have worked better.

Maybe you should just add one more line to your blog disclaimer. "In the event that you make a comment that I can get humour out of, be warned, I may just do so, irregardless of the topic." Its your blog. :-)

I don't have time to read all the comments, and I didn't read the comments on the other posts either, so I missed whatever was said.

I thought your post was funny, though, and that made me read back on the previous post to remember what you said. And I suppose whoever posted about water safety was actually just concerned.

In reading today's post, I realized that if you feel comfortable 7 steps away, they are your kids and you know them. Maybe they keep up a running commentary so you know they are okay. Ours don't. One will talk and the other is quietly doing his thing. We stay right there with them...I don't dare walk out of sight. They also squabble in the bath and since one twin is a lot bigger than the other, that could be dangerous. So we are right there. But that is what we need to do for OUR kids. Everyone has to figure out what they need to do, what they are comfortable with. I saved my baby brother when he fell into the pool when he was two...I still remember that awful feeling of watching him disappear under the water...that probably influences me too.

Anyway, there are probably less judgemental ways for someone to bring up concerns. But I've noticed that some people LIKE to be judgemental.

Great post, great comments.

I confess that there are parenting issues I don't blog about because I'm not sure how they'd be received so I admire the fact that you keep putting it out there.

BTW, Will we EVER get a blog update from Karen?

I'm American and have lived in Europe for the last 15 years. I think that Americans are *intensely* concerned about safety and security in all aspects of their lives....in a way that people from other countries cannot comprehend. When my American friends with children come to visit, they ask questions such as, "What is your fire escape route?" and "Does your son know your telephone number in case he gets lost?". They have tons of suggestions (unsolicited) as to how I can keep my family safer.

I'm not criticizing this - this is just my impression of the culture of American families today. I think their obsession with security is a reaction to the senseless brutality of everyday violence in the USA, catastrophes beyond their control and the knowledge that they are on their own to protect their families in every way. Their strategies to stay safe at all times are a way to try to gain control and have a sense of security. I think that their "public education", while it sounds preachy, comes from a real sense of trying to help.

Cross-cultural relationships are difficult because the people from a culture different from your own are going to react...differently. That's why it's so important to understand the background. Hope this helps a bit!

You know, I am a mother after infertility (5 IVF's, 2 miscarriages), and while I will never forget how much I longed for my children, and I still marvel at the fact of their existence, I do not believe that I love my children more than a fertile mom loves hers, and I have always found that notion to be offensive. I agree with Andrea on this point.

I think all parents love their children as much as it is possible to love. However hard or easy it was to have them. Will I ever forget the experience of infertility? No. But am I somehow a better or worse mother because of it. No. I am a mother. Imagine if you had gotten pregnant easily, and an infertile friend told you they were more careful with their children's safety, or that they loved their children somehow more because of their infertilty?

I LOVED your little joke about the little ones playing with spears and cooking dinner. You are a funny lady, Ms. Tertia. If you gave up blogging, I might not ever turn my computer on and get to work. Your my coffee, babe!

Don't let the turkeys get you down.

DISCLAIMER: "Don't let the Turkeys get you down" is an expression that was used by former President, Ronald Reagan in a note left for his successor, George H. W. Bush. By using this expression, I do not intend to imply that I am affiliated with the Republican party of the United States. I am simply attempting to bring a little humor into Tertia's day (or evening). In addition, by using the above mentioned phrase, I do not mean to single out or offend any previous, current or future posters to Tertia's blog, nor do I mean to offend any type of poultry, living or dead, nor anyone from or currently living in Turkey.

Dont y'all just love how Tertia can make a slight offense the theme of her blog for days running, and then, when she's really gotten people riled up, maybe silently realized that her critics had a POINT, she then swoops in and, no mea culpas, pronounces the conversation over?

And yes, I would have said this in a more polite/direct way, but you said you didn't want to hear it.

Legal mama, Amen and amen. I love my twins with my heart and soul, I am incredibly thankful that after years of infertility we got these two wonderful children. But, my mom loves me with all of her heart and soul, and my sister, and my brother...and she had not one wit of trouble conceiving any of us. I lean on her so much, she is the best mom, and teacher, I have ever met. At the end of the day, if I have half of her patience and skill, my kids will be ok.

gosh so many comments ...so much angst.
I enjoyed the bathtub post Tertia , it was cute, funny and full of delight and cheekiness.
I love the beautiful words you wrote about A & K .I wish I was as articulate.My IVF twins as dear to me as life itself. I know exactly what you mean.

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