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Huge hugs to you both. I believe in "error on the side of caution". I have a child with a speech delay and sensory issues. He had an incident at school and has wanted to sleep with me again. I can just feel that he needs this as inconvienient as it is for DH and I.

I use the behaviorist at school for tips on getting my son to do things. We GENTLY use the principals of ABA to change his behavior. First we need to analyze what he is doing and then why is he doing it before we can change his behavior.

email me and I will tell you what I am doing and that it is working. Ask the child psyc about behavior modification. Its only downfall is that it takes time. It will not take the supposed 3 days of CIO but it does work.


Huge hugs to you both. I believe in "error on the side of caution". I have a child with a speech delay and sensory issues. He had an incident at school and has wanted to sleep with me again. I can just feel that he needs this as inconvienient as it is for DH and I.

I use the behaviorist at school for tips on getting my son to do things. We GENTLY use the principals of ABA to change his behavior. First we need to analyze what he is doing and then why is he doing it before we can change his behavior.

email me and I will tell you what I am doing and that it is working. Ask the child psyc about behavior modification. Its only downfall is that it takes time. It will not take the supposed 3 days of CIO but it does work.


I really think it's a stage. Two and three is just a bitch. But, if your instincts say have him checked over, then do it. For your own peace of mind if nothing else.

Really, people think you are being paranoid and need to be tough with him? I guess I am not surprised because people do tend to say that stuff, but -- well, he sounds distressed and upset to me too. I have no advice at all, but I suspect you are on exactly the right track with all the OT, etc. Our little guy (just the age of your two) goes to "school" once a week in a mixed class of kids w/"issues" & kids without, and several of his little-boy classmates are a match w/Adam -- and it's not considered odd that they are receiving quite a bit of intervention, OT etc. They too (and my guy) are "normal," happy little guys, they just are all having a rough time of it in the early years. Things like brushing, swinging, sleep issues, weighted blankets -- yeah, they're things we didn't know about years ago, but that doesn't make the kids that use them "abnormal" or anything. He's OK, all this help is probably just great for him, Marko's worries are normal -- I know you're all going to be ok.

Hey, don't be so hard on yourself. It won't do Adam any harm to see the OT, Paediatrician and the Psychologist. Maybe they all will tell you that he is quite normal and doing fine, so then you can stop worrying and just parent him in the way he seems to need. Maybe they will say that he could benefit from certain teaching methods or therapies, so then you can go ahead with those. Maybe he's just teething or getting a cold, in which case he'll be better in a week. In any case, you are doing the right thing, thinking so carefully over all the possibilities, getting professional advice, and then taking that advice. You're a great mother, and you understand your child's needs. I hope you can find a way to get some extra sleep a.s.a.p., and that things will be much better for all of you in a few days.
Best wishes,

[i][quote]OT on Monday, Paed on Tues, Child Psychologist on Wednesday[/quote][/i]
Please take Adam to an ENT. There are other less known sleep disorders, bedsides apnea. Rainbow is right, snoring is not normal for a child his age and is a symptom of sleep issues.

It does seem to be that some of it is behavioral. If Rose can put him to sleep without a peep, why are you having so much drama at bedtime? I have the same thing, with all of my sons. For us, the issue is me. I'm such an instant-reward kind of person that I love the immediate reaction my sons get from my comforting. There's a price though and sometimes I pull back, because I don't want to set my sons up for a lifetime of sleep issues. But that's me.

My friend had a child who wasn't talking by 2. Everyone said, no worries, Albert Einstein didn't talk until he was older than 2. My retort is, imagine all Einstein would have accomplished with intervention!! Maybe relativity was just the beginning.

Do what you think is right. We have more information these days.


Ummm... I'm afraid I'm not quite with you on that one. SID like in "Sudden Infant Death"? At the age of two and a half? I have never heard of a case of SID that occurred that late.

BTW: What would happen if Adam and Kate slept in the same room, to keep each other company? And what is different at night from when Adam goes to sleep in the afternoon? Does he maybe need more light? Or maybe some soft music to make up for the missing "daytime noise"?

I cannot for the life of me imagine that he needs you that urgently at night when he's doing fine as long as you're absent. If he really needed you (no substitute possible) wouldn't he be crying for you in the afternoons as well?

I don't know anything about the developmental/health concerns you have, but we found ourselves in a very similar spot, sleep-wise, with our daughter about 6 months ago (she was 18 months).

She just suddenly needed us more during the night again and I was at the end of my rope and really desperate for better sleep. Many people told us to get tough with the CIO, and we were about to go ahead with it despite our qualms (like Adam, I think she would have cried for hours). We were kind of waiting for a "good time" to do it (a set of days where we could afford to be zombies), and in the meantime kept just going into her room when she cried and reinforcing that we were there to take care of her ... and it just slowly got better without us ever going to the CIO again.

I really think that she had gotten into a cycle of being anxious about sleep, and the worse the sleep got the more tired and distressed I got and the more she perceived me to be pushing her away, so the more anxious she became and more unable to sleep independently, etc. And I think we broke the cycle by giving in to what she needed right then rather than pushing her harder.

Probably not a magical cure, but another data point to think about among all the "get tough" statements.

(SID=Sensory Integration Disorder, no?)

Tertia, I have a son on whom none of the traditional methods worked; when we tried CIO, he screamed until 4am, then we called our pediatrician who told us to give it up and that it only works for 95% of kids (jeez, tell us that beforehand next time!), then we got him out of the crib and held him and he continued crying for another 90 minutes. So THAT sucked.

Here is how I solved his sleep issues: I told him if he stayed in his bed all night until the sun came up he could have candy. Except for 2 or 3 nights when he's been ill, we haven't heard a peep out of him at night since then. (And no, we're not still giving him candy - we just needed to break the cycle, it seemed.) My kid just responds better to bribes than negative consequences, it seems.

I don't mention that in public too often because it freaks some people out, but just in case it's helpful...

I don't know Adam as well as you do. I'm inclined to believe that he is a normal child though. We all have issues. Do we really need a label for them? Adam may be more sensitive to the world around him but do you really believe that's why he isn't going to sleep at night? I highly doubt it. You said yourself Rose doesn't have trouble getting him down for a nap. He only has issues getting to sleep when you are around. Obviously your behaviour is part of the problem. It sounds Adam, much like my son, wants to be as close to mother as possible. It's evident to me that you love him very much and he loves you very much. It appears to me that because you love him so much you are very sensitive to his wants. Needs are different than wants. Adam doesn't need to sleep with you. He's perfectly capable of sleeping alone. He doesn't physically need you to sleep with him. He wants you there but he could sleep without you.

You are his life coach! Like any good coach it's up to you to give him the skills he needs to accomplish a task. You have decided that these sleeping arrangements are NOT working for you. It's apparent that it's causing a problem for your family. As the coach you need to help Adam find some self soothing techniques so that ALL of you can get some sleep.

I don't think you should lock or gate him in his room. I don't think he should or will cry for three hours.

I think the best time to talk to Adam about sleeping arrangements is during the day when he's alert and in a good mood. Offer him a new comfort - a special blanket, a flash light, etc. Make it very clear that he'll have to sleep in his own bed alone. After his bedtime routine, tuck him in and leave the room. When he emerges, put him in back. Try not to get emotional. Don't talk to him or rationalize it to him. Just calmly walk him back to his bed and place him there. He'll probably get out several (dozen) times but once he realizes you mean business he will stop getting up and find a new way to comfort himself. I really think you may not be the best person to do this. Maybe Marko/Grandma/Rose would be a better person to put him back in the room. You have to be really consistant and I think at this point you might be too emotional/exhausted to be effective.

Even if Adam does have issues, what difference will it make re: sleeping arrangements? None! No matter what may or may not be going on with Adam, these arrangements are NOT WORKING. Period. Your still going to have to come up with a strategy to get Adam sleeping soundly in his room while you sleep in yours.

I hope that doesn't come across as bitchy as it sounds - it's hard to be so frank online because you can't hear my tone.

I totally, TOTALLY understand all the anxiety around the parenting thing...needing to be the BEST mother,BEST wife, best blogger, etc etc and on the flip side, all the excuses + justification regarding sleeping issues.

Most probably the sleep thing is the #1 issue to discuss, get a serious plan formulated and resolve for all your sakes, especially for Adam( not to mention the marraige...!sorry!)It was the most difficult thing in my first marraige and with my son, who is now 11. He has never slept well, ever.

I should have helped him better. I know now that young kids need a good night's sleep and we love them enough to give them every opportunity in life, however hard initially. We have to trust that we love them enough to help them get a good night's uninterrupted sleep, it's a lifelong fundamental skill they need to learn in order to thrive throughout their lives.

I learned my lesson well though because the consequences were pretty extreme... and my twins now are good sleepers, and there are times when I want to just run into their rooms and help them get back to sleep( and there are times when that is 100% necessary)but when they need a little time to settle down and be alloweed to learn to put themselves to sleep is the best tool we can give them, even if it kills US.

The whole trying to be perfect thing an issue I had to deal with as well, now I realise it's impossible and have relaxed quite a lot.. the amount of time and energy around that whole issue vs. the outcome is crazy makeing!!

Anyway, this is my 2c worth..... take or leave it, but wishing you good luck and lots of zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz's very, very soon.
Hang in + know you're not alone!!!

ps: As an aside, is it possible for Rose to put Adam to bed for 2 weeks and Marko to get up and put him back to bed at night for that long as well( you will have to think about suitable compensation for the poor chap) ---even if you go and sleep in the garage/Mom so you can't hear or be reached? It takes about that long to break a sleep habit and instill another, if I recall. Our therapist even wanted us to drug our son to help him over the 2 week hurdle when he was little...I am really feeling for you, I remember those zombie days like yesterday.

OMGoodness....If I could find the delete button I would to erase my post, it sounds like an asshole wrote it.. I am too close to this issue to talk about it with any sense of being detatched and I tried, but it sounds bloody awful. sorry.

I have no kids, so I have nothing to base this on, but if your gut tells you something is wrong, have him checked. Trust your instincts. If your gut is screaming at you that something is wrong, please don't feel that you are being overly paranoid.

I don't know.. he kind of sounds like a normal 2 year old to me. My daugher also fought night time sleep, for the lONGEST time! Naps, no problem. Night time ( with the same routein, etc) was horrible. We did CIO. 3 hours sometimes. Never unattended, I'd go in every 10 minutes or so to pat, lay back down, etc. I didn't just let her cry all alone. But after, oh, a MONTH of this crap with no sleeping, she finally got it. She cried less and less, soon not crying at all, and if she woke in the night I could hand her a sippy of water and she'd go right back to sleep. But if I'd allowed it I'd be sleeping in her room on a mattress just like you're doing.

Remember this first.

You are a loving, giving mother. You have instincts about your children. You know your babies better than anyone. You have to do what feels right to you. If that means sleeping with Adam for awhile, then that's what you need to do. Don't let anyone make you feel guilty for your decision. Bottom line is, none of us is in your situation, we're not there. You are. Just because something works for someone else or another child doesn't make it a perfect fit for your child or your situation.

I do feel for you. I've done the sleepless nights, night after night, and it truly sucks and you believe it will never end. It will end. Is there not a way you can work something out with M to help you. I kow you say Adam only wants you, but once he's fallen asleep, will he know if it's you or Marko there? Then at least, you can get a good nights sleep.

You're in my thoughts.....Hang in there.


I havent read all the comments yet but I just wanted to get my two cents worth in .Tertia always remember mom knows best.I dont care what other people say,if you feel there is a problem get it checked out.If it makes us look neurotic,tough.My daughter had bad pains in her leg and I was told growing pains...i insisted on xray and luckily nothing was wrong but I sure sleep better at night!I also had the problem of my daughter coming to my bed each night once she was in her "big bed".Its was really tough as I am a light sleeper so I just could not have her in the bed with me.Every time (and I mean EVERY time) she came to my bed I got up and took her back to her bed ,kissing and telling her I love her but she needs to stay in her bed.It went from about 6 times a night to about once a night after one week and now she sleeps through...every night.I just kept telling her that she was welcome in my bed once the sun comes up (morning time!)so now when she wakes in the morning she comes for her morning "visit".Make a HUGE fuss when he gets it right!I wish you so much luck on this issue because i have been there and know it is not easy!With my first daughter i left her in teh cot to cry herself to sleep and this worked well with her but she did not cry for three hours,i agree with you 100% that it is too long to leave a child crying!Go with your heart Tertia everyone else is not his mother!

You do what you feel comfortable with. Period. Who gives a crap what others think/do/say. Honestly, what gets you through is what gets you through. You acknowledge that it's not working. Find something that does. You will not even care about this in about two years. It will seem like a joke in the past of your mind.

Please realize that I say this with the compassion of a devoted mother, not a chastising bitch. I slept on the floor/in the bed with my son for MONTHS. Difference was I was ok with it (my husband not so much, but I needed my boy to sleep!!). I have finally gotten my son diagnosed with a developmental delay, which OMG explains a lot of things, and I don't regret bending over backwards to get some sleep around here. He still doesn't sleep through the night, but he doesn't need me to sleep with him anymore. You will make it.

Ah,I forgot to ask if he has a night light?Both my girls could not sleep without dim night lights.I have just found a wonderful globe that goes into a normal lamp but dims to 4 different brightnesses with each click of the normal lamp switch.Its brilliant!

You need to do what you need to do. If that is seeing specialists, so be it. You *must* be able to sleep at night knowing that you've done your best. Here is how I always thought of it - if something *is* wrong, and intervention *can* help, I'd kick myself for years if I listened to grandma and dad and aunties who told me I was just a stress case. It turns out my kid did indeed need some help. I'm sure her issues would have eventually become glaringly apparent to everyone, but at first it was just me who saw them. And I entertained the possibility that in my sleep-deprived irrational state I was seeing problems that didn't exist. BUT I needed, for my sanity, to know that I was doing everything I could. And that involved getting experts that knew more about these things than I.

And I second the ENT suggestion. That is one that should be ruled out.


So many doctors will throw a diagnosis out there, but what does that really mean? Are you going to medicate him? If not, what other choice do you have than behavioral changes?

I know you want to "be sure", but the thing is, with kids you are never sure. And, you may not like to hear it, but if you constantly take your child to the doctor something IS going to start going wrong. I remember a young girl I once counseled who was convinced she was "mental", because her mother had always taken her to doctors, listing out her problems, etc. You know what the problem was? Her mom refused to discipline the girl, and thought that by taking her to doctor after doctor she could get through life without ever having solid boundaries as everyone would feel sorry for her, PLUS the mom then didn't have to address the true problem!

That is not a good situation!

My problem with today's medical realm is that far too many doctors are willing to just throw diagnosis after diagnosis out there. Perhaps Adam has a valid problem, but look at the probability. He's in that terrible 2-3 range where he is making the transition from toddler to little boy. Think of the overload that must be; it's as bad as becoming a teenager! Solid foods, potty training, "big kid" toys, language explosion - these things are a lot to take in, and if not taught how to manage it all, yeah, it can be overwhelming!

I am certainly not saying that he doesn't need medical attention/advice. I'm not there on a daily basis. But I do think that even IF you receive a diagnosis, you need to weigh that carefully and make sure it truly applies. Many, many basic behavioral issues can be misdiagnosed as serious conditions. Bottom line: parenting does not get any easier, so if you cannot gain control of the situation when he is 2, 3, and 4 years old, what in the world do you think you'll do when he's 15?

I really think you have to do what you think is the best. But I am amazed that for some people it's "it's you, you have to get tough." It is not always about control.

There could be SO MANY reasons he stays up/gets up with you. If Rose hasn't sleep all night with him lately you can't say that it's her touch. Maybe he gets all excited to see you because you are his mother. Maybe he holds it together with others and falls apart with you, for the same reason. I'm just tossing this out there 'cause I do not like the black and white thinking.

Well, I would certainly check in with the ped and the child psych, but clearly there is an element of him "playing you" at work here. He goes to sleep fine when you aren't there - you have all the answer you need there and you wrote it yourself. i would get rid of the other bed in his room. He won't expect you to sleep there and you won't be tempted to GO to sleep there. WHen my DD wakes in the night I take her back to her room and sit next to her bed - on the floor. Sometimess for 2 minutes, sometimes for 15. I never had this issue with my twins, thank God. But even if he has "issues" - that is no reason why he can't sleep in his own bed, in his own room. But I also agree with the person who said this age is a bitch. Yikes is it ever.

Tertia, STOP. Stop listening to everyone else and listen to your instincts. You are the mother here, you know what is best for him, even if it sounds crazy.

This is a major problem with blogging. You get sooooo many well-meaning critiques that you don't know what to listen to. Listen to your heart. We don't know Adam. You do. If you think something is wrong, take him to any doctor you feel you need to. Either it's a stage and he'll grow out of it and no harm will be done by doing too much (because doctors wouldn't approve their methods if they could hurt him, I don't believe that, and he's too young to realize you worry maybe too much), or something will be found and you'll know where to go from there.

The base line is, none of us are in that twin bed with you in the night. None of us are listening to him scream for hours on end. None of us are seeing how intense he is. And we cannot grasp just how bad it might be without being there.

You have to do what you think is best, and it's clear to me that you think consulting doctors is best. If you weren't, you'd be getting bitched at for not doing enough, so GO! Listen to your mommy mind.

I can't say a thing about the sleeping issues, as we have good sleepers for now, but I do know that intense kids often save their emotion for those they most trust. My N is like that. He's never had a single tantrum when I've been away. It's NOT because I'm waek or a softie - it's because he can let it out with me, and he does. So don't beat yourself up if you can't get him down and Rose can - it can be a sign of attachment with intense kids. I hope it gets easier for you soon - you're a good mom.

Get him checked out with as many specialists as you feel you need... then, afterwards, if they all say he is fine you know what you need to do.
You need to do what i did. Do not EVER go to them when they wake up unless they are sick or in jeopardy of hurting themselves. Mine sleep in total darkness happily because it is all they know. It has always been that way for them. I put plastic doorknob child-proofing thingy's on the inside so that they are virtually locked in (can't hurt themselves in their room at all).
Have let them CIO numerous times on various occasions and it ALWAYS works with minimal pain for all involved (including the most recent removal of Samantha's Binky which only took 3 nights).
He doesn't need you at night if he sleeps fine with Rose during the day. You need to do this thing now and do what we are supposed to do... help them to be the best children they can be, not enable them to manipulate us.
I know this sounds tough, but, really, my children are totally loved, well cared for and happily sleep adjusted.
My very dear friend has your exact problem with her almost 3 year old boy, but, hers is even worse b/c he pukes himself from sobbing so hard if she leaves him at night (he also goes down lickety split for their nanny during the day and anyone else, for that matter!). She agrees with me that she is the one causing the problem, but, won't do anything about it. I think that (secretly) she likes the idea of being so "needed" by her child. I wonder if deep down inside, you get the same feeling? There is something nice/crappy about kids ONLY wanting mommy to do for them. My daughter now will only let me put her in/out of her carseat, hold her hand to walk in the parking lot, help her down the stairs, etc. Not the Nanny (whom she loves and adores), not her Grandpa (whom she loves and adores), not anybody at this moment except for "MOMMY! MOMMY! MOMMY!". I have to say it is quite fucking annoying... but, at the same time i like the initial feeling when she does it of being the ONLY one in the universe who can make her happy when she gets like this.
I hear this stage passes quickly.
Thank god**

Good luck!

What is Rose's opinion on this?

Go with your gut feeling of course. Good mothers do.

That said you HAVE to get some freaking sleep my dear. Make sure you ask the experts about that one!

In many ways, I'm exactly the same way when it comes to my non-sleeping son.

I will say that we are both at our worst when we haven't slept enough: I am broody and emotional, and he is a fussier child (doesn't eat or play the same).

And the more tired I get, the harder it is for me to "get tough" and let him cry, or follow our routine, or whatever. Yet when I do and he sleeps, we invariably get back to ourselves the next day. That doesn't make it any easier to do.

(This isn't assvice--The Boy and Adam are totally different people--just wanted to share my experience.)

Hang in there.

Have you talked to a sleep consultant? That's a big thing in the U.S. (well, by big thing, I have 2-3 friends of 20-30 with kids who have used it). The sleep consultant evaluates you and the kid and helps come up with strategies to help him (and you) get more sleep. Might be worth a shot at this stage of desperation and sleep deprivation.

some more assvice from me....when my boys resist going to bed to the point I actually start to think they may really need to be with me, I let them get their blankets and pillow and lay down on the couch or the floor while I sit in my chair and watch boring grownup TV or play on the computer. They don't usually both do this on the same night, and I just leave whichever one is on the couch there when I go to bed. When they were smaller I would carry them to their own bed, but they are too heavy now. Sometimes the younger one insists on sitting on my lap, which I tolerate as long as he sits still and doesn't jab me or thrash around. He's really too big for it to be comfortable for me for more than a few minutes. I don't remember if you've ever said why you don't rock him to sleep or let him fall asleep on the couch or somewhere other than his bed. I worried about setting up a pattern where they couldn't fall asleep on their own in their own beds, but it hasn't happened. 99% of the time they go to bed on their own with no difficulty. It could also be that we moved to a new house and their bedroom is right off the room where I watch TV and use the computer, so I'm actually just right outside their door anyway.

My dear tertia, please dont worry so, i know its hard not to but take one thing at a time. First and foremost get some sleep. when you have had a good rest, you can decide what really needs to be done.
Yes i agree something is wrong but i suspect its not something that requires a pshycologist, OT and a paed. I think he needs to be checked up by the paed for having a poor appetite. The rest can wait. I am feeling for you and i am feeling for Adam, surely he is not creating such a fuss for no reason but dont jump to conclusions. I really agree with Marko on this one. Please take his advice.

Have you looked at Dr. Weissbluth's book "Healthy Sleep Habits, Happy Child"? If not - you should. So many of the issues that he is having during the "day" could be a direct result of his inability to sleep properly at night.

My 13 year old son has sensory issues, allergies and was an awful sleeper until about 3.5. He sleeps great now. This, too, shall pass, it really will.

It's ok for him to need his mom, and he may or may not have a medical reason for it. He is secure in the knowledge that you are there when he needs you. Is is little still, and won't be for very long. It's ok to meet his needs.

In the meantime, turn the clock around so you can't see how many times you are waking up. It was helpful for me to have the toddler's bed a little lower than mine, it kept them from kicking me but I was still right there. You could also put a sleeping bag on the floor near your bed and he can come in if he needs to, of you sleep better in there. I like white noise in the bedroom, like the sound of waves, and it masks the sound of snoring somewhat.

All 3 of mine co-slept as babies, then off and on until they were 3 or so. They are all good sleepers now, and put themselves to bed. They probably would if I'd trained them to sleep at an early age as well. Kids eventually feed themselves, pee in the potty, sleep all night and wipe their own behinds. Some kids need us more than others do.

I agree that you need to listen to your inner mommy voice... Don't let internet wisdom make you doubt whatever you feel you need to do for your babies, nor wisdom from well meaning friends. Do what's right for your family.

Hi Tertia,
first I have not read through the comments so this may have already been mentioned but... what happens at home at night when you are away for work? I know that you travel from time to time. Does Adam settle down OK or does he carry on like a pork chop for hours on end?
I am figuring( from the other side of the world, so perhaps not very accurately) that this is manipulation. Two and a half year olds are famous for it. I went through it with both of my children at about the same age. In the end I went and stayed a couple of nights at my Mum's house( and took one child with me) whilst dear darling hubby 'broke' (awful word but fits the situation) the habit.
You need to get some sleep my dear, otherwise this will seem like you are trying to climb mount Everest
Good luck with however you choose to handle it, and don't worry too much you will make your self sick

hey tertia, adam needs you to teach him that going to sleep, and sleeping, without you is fine. at the moment, your response to him is reinforcing his own anxieties - and to a kid, if mum thinks its a worry, then it IS a worry. your anxiety is feeding his, and setting up patterns for the future that he doesnt need.

you all need sleep, especially him. being awake and distressed is just too hard on all of you. you may need to get someone else to put him to bed, and to respond to him in the night, telling him that mummy has to sleep as well, and that other people can soothe him if you aren't there. if you died tomorrow, he has to learn to deal without you. sounds cruel and hard, but we all want our kids to cope with the world - sometimes we make it so they only cope if we are around, and that is even crueler.

why am i saying this? i had serious separation issues with my own mother (after my baby brother was stillborn). at 46, i am STILL being told when i am cold, tired, not coping etc - and its bloody horrible. i did the same to my kids, after my second daughter died from sids, and i had a couple of miscarriages. believe you me, the guilt is huge when my 25 year old daughter struggles to cope with ordinary stress, and i know that i was the one that taught her she couldnt cope without me - so finally i am saying (and living what i am saying) that i know she has the resources to cope and manage, and that while i support her, she is in charge of her destiny.

adam needs learn to self-soothe, supported by a mother and father (and others) who tell him with word and action that he can do it. you need to believe it as well - and to act as though you believe it until you finally do!

however, do get him checked physically first - make sure he is ok - altho, as others have pointed out - he sleeps in the day, he sleeps for other people, so it is probably a dynamic between the two of you. then you will need to figure outa way not to feed the anxiety beast.

you can do it. you are the mommy, and you DO know best what he needs. hours and hours of uninterrupted dreamy sleep and a mother who trusts him to survive without her watching him every single second of the day. hard as hell to do, but better for you all.

i wish i could hug you right now, and share a cup of tea with you.

I remember I resisted CIO for the longest time and when we finally did it, she cried for over 3 hours before I finally went in and got her. (My husband did go in at regular intervals, but we figured out REALLY quickly that if I went in and then went out again, it just made things much worse.) So, I don't know how long she would have cried for had I just let her be. After that experience, I just felt like I didn't have it in me to ever do that again.

What finally changed my mind was that I realized I was being a bad mother during the day because of the extended sleep deprivation. Not abusive or anything like that, but I just didn't have energy or patience to do anything. I remember having the thought that at this point, my daughter would be better off with someone else as her caregiver because I wasn't able to do anything with her other than meet her basic needs, and most of the time that was in an exhausted manner. I wasn't being me around her (or around anyone else for that matter, including my husband) and I wasn't able to experience the world with her in the way that I wanted to. So that's when I decided I at least had to give CIO a chance. Now, I know it doesn't work for every kid, but I realized I didn't know if it would work for my kid until I really gave it a true shot, and if it did work that the benefit would greatly outweigh the short term feelings of anguish.

Of course it was hard. It took over a month before she would go to bed without crying. (The intense crying lasted about two weeks.) But it worked splendidly. She is a different child and I am a different mom. She is such an incredibly happy baby now, whereas before she was always labeled a "difficult" and "spirited" child. I have literally had people tell me they can't believe she is the same child. And I'm different too: I have so much fun with her everyday and look so forward to seeing her every morning.

You're the mom and ultimately you get the final say. But if you actually would like to try CIO but are feeling a lot of guilt and anguish, think about the improvement in your quality of life. If it works, it is so, so worth it, I promise.

Tertia, have you thought about taking two weeks off from the internet, simply to concentrate on your family? Seems to the casual observer that you're wearing yourself out, and trying to do too much. It is lovely to come here each day to read about your life, but lately, you sound absolutely miserable about everything. Maybe it's time to take a breath, and focus on the basic priorities. I imagine Marko has said something similar, from your comments about "the talk".

Be gentle with yourself, but realise you cannot do everything all the time. You're shortchanging yourself, your husband, and your family. Might sound harsh, but what if it all falls apart? Taking some time now may prevent that.

I really hope things get better for you very soon, and you can be happy again.

Does he have a nightlight? Have you asked him about it outside of bedtime? Particularly "What's different between bedtime and a nap?" I know he doesn't have all the words yet, but he might be able to give you a better clue of what's going on if you ask him what the difference is when he's not all stressed out about bedtime.

Like everyone else said, see the doctors. The peace of mind will be worth it.

Well, I haven't read the entire page of comments, but for what it's worth, my son had issues too. He was sleeping fine until he got sick for about 2-3 days, and then it was all over. He was back awake all night every night. By about the third night, I could take no more. We tried sleeping with him in our bed, but he's too mobile at night for that to work. Besides, he never really sleeps, just kicks daddy in the kidneys and plays with my hair. My pediatrician recommended giving him a dose of benadryl or nighttime cough syrup before bed. As much as I didn't want to drug him, I needed the sleep. I think we gave him meds for 2 nights, and by the third night he was right back to where he was before. Not that it will work, but it might be worth a shot. If he realizes that he can fall asleep without you and that when he wakes up you're still there, then he might get over the whole sleep issue. However, my son is now being evaluated for autism (loss of speech, head banging, no eye contact, etc) and it certainly sounds like whatever it is, is definitely sensory. Especially the screaming. Now my son is not a screamer for hours on end, thank god that ended with the colic, but that is part of the sensory issues with autism and SID. Talk to your ped and tell them everything and let them make the decision as to what's up. Sounds to me like definite SID and if so, then do whatever you have to do to make everything bearable for him. If all it means is a weighted blanket. You used to have a camera on them while they slept, correct? If so, perhaps plug it back in and show him that you can see him. Or, reverse it, so he can see you. So then all he has to do is roll over and see you. Maybe that will comfort him enough to sleep without you. Certainly might help out if he knows that you can see him from your room (or that he can see you from his). Might be worth a shot. Hoping you get some sleep soon!

Best of luck to you Tertia, this is a real pickle. I think you are doing a wonderful job and you are such a sensitive caring mother. Adam obviously loves you very very much!

When we transitioned our daughter to her big bed from the crib my husband had to lay with her every night for about a YEAR for her to fall asleep. Half those nights she'd end up getting up 5-6 times and we'd have to put her back to bed. Most of the time we'd cave and let her sleep with one of us in our bed while the other of us went to sleep in her bed (anything for SLEEP!). We were doing everything "wrong" but it was the only way we were sleeping at all.

Once she was 3 she was old enough to understand she needed to stay put in her bed. One of us still had to sit with her until she fell asleep, but she stayed in her bed all night.

Now she's almost 6 and goes to bed willingly and stays in bed all night. It was a phase, we did what we had to do, and it passed.

Hang in there, it is SO tough. Think of the toast you can make on Adam's wedding day "it doesn't seem like that long ago all he needed was his Mommy....". You'll laugh at these days and there will be a part of you that wonders where that little boy went that needed you so much. Sigh.


If I had a cent for every time I thought "if only I trusted my inner voice", I'd ... ok not be rich, but I'd have a lot of cents. Trust yourself. Listen to your instincts. Forget about what you think everyone else is thinking. You know. And I hope you get some sleep soon, somehow.

FYI - Slate.com has an article today with some information/ideas about ways to deal with kids who won't sleep. Maybe it'll be helpful?

Tertia, my sixth has SID. When she started therapy, it was horrible. She ran from the therapist, cired whenever she came near, and wanted nothing to do with her. After a year of therapy, she ran to her and hugged her whenever the therapist came into view. Therapy can and does work for SID kids.

I've got a hubby who says that same things that Marko does, but after this past year, he sees what a great thing it was to put her in therapy.

Her sleep was rotten, absolutely horrible. Slowly, slowly, it got better. We have a white noise machine in her room and that has helped, along with the weighted blanket. One thing that I found key for her was making certain she has enough exercise. We also started bedtime early - dinner at 5, followed by bath, book, toothbrushing and then joint compression/brushing right before bed. It took a long while, but she does sleep well now.

You are the mom, you know what is best for your kid. If you want to chat SID issues, I'd love to talk.

Moms know best! Trust your instincts. Having him checked out is not going to do any harm. The idea of what kind of school environment will be best for him from the psychologist sounds like a wonderful idea. Every mom should do that for thier kids since so few kids actually learn well in a traditional setting. I hope nothing is wrong but I also hope you can get some support in getting the sleep issues taken care of.

Trust your instincts, if he needs you, he needs you. A part of it I think is just being a boy. My son is 2 years old and has just started sleeping through the night. He still occasionally gets up every now and then. According to my friends who have boys, they have the same problem (one of my friends has a 5 year old who still gets up).

It'll work itself out one way or another, we'll just be red-eyed in the process.

Tertia - I agree with the "going with your instincts". You are going a great job with twice the amount of work than most of us have. Adam clearly loves you and gets comfort from having you there. You will figure out the rest as you go along - and soon I hope. :)

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