Is this for real? V v scary!

Comments

[Julie]

OK... Now I am a Bible thumper... Totally believing in the Lord Jesus Christ... But THAT is a little far out for me. For one, it can't be totally Bible believing if it has a female pastor, as the Bible clearly states that women are not to teach men, and can't be pastors... With the talking in toungues thing, it sounds penticostal (sp?) to me...

And where I stand behind the president, I don't agree with worshiping him!!!! That is just wrong, and the Bible clearly states that as well...

Please, don't judge all believers by the acts of some radicals...

Julie

[Heather]

Frightening.

[Alison]

Surely that must be a hoax film.....

[Miranda]

Wow... I attend a Church of Christ, where I am able to come and go on Sundays as I please. John (the pastor) is happy to see me when I am there, and pleased to talk about religion and answer any questions I may have, and lets me know (by telling me so when I am back again) that I am missed when I am not.

At present I am very much in a learning stage of religion (had not ever been to church until last year, am now 20) and have already gathered that everyone believes different things, and practise thier faith differently... but that is just scary.

I wonder if these kids can give you another reason why abortion and gay marriage is bad other than "God says it is"....?

[Jennie]

fanatics no matter what name they use or who they follow are frightening.

[BoonzaierBabe]

I completely agree with Julie's post. I have been raised in a Christian environment and this documentary is so NOT an accurate portrayal of evangelizing children.

[Ute]

What else can one expect with other "christian" nonsense like, for instance, creationism on the rise?

Scary, yes. But not surprising.

[Jillian]

As a Catholic, most things are scary... but that is truly frightening.

[CariP]

As an evangelical Christian I wouldn't term it frightening, exactly. I think that it is a bit extreme, yes, but without seeing the whole film or knowing anything else about the camp, I reserve judgment. Fanatics on ALL sides do some crazy stuff.

The worshipping President Bush thing is just wrong, and I am a Bush supporter. HE would find it wrong too.

I think that evangelizing to youth is a good thing in general. Giving them a strong faith and helping them be on fire for the Lord is a good thing - it will help them through the teen years and early adulthood with a strong sense of morals and something to believe in. Hopefully they won't have to find their way "back" to faith as adults with their own children or when some tradgedy occurs in their lives. The faith will be there through it all.

[Nancy]

My husband walked past my compter at the part where they mention the christian rodeos- he asked wide-eyed, "does the cowboy have to convert the bull?" Now that's a christian pastime we'd like to see!

[wookie]

I think the liberal author interviewed pointed out WHY this is such a problem, or likely to be in the future.

"It's Us versus Them"

And Jesus preached tolerance, not us versus them. I think by and large all radical Christian movements have completely forgoten that in favour of "Us vs. Them" mentality. Who needs harmony, tolerance and peace when there are enough of us to quash the unbelievers? The unbelievers don't even matter, because they're unbelievers and going to hell anyway. It's actually this dichotomy that drove me right out of organized religion, period.

Yeah. So NOT what Jesus ever preached.

[giddy]

What I found most disturbing was the pastor saying that she wants the kids to be like those in Palestine, Israel, Pakistan......when as the previous commenter noted, us vs them was not the message of jesus. (And for that matter, even "jihad" in Islam just means "struggle," and many Muslim commentators believe that it refers to the internal struggles that all people have when determining what they believe and where to put their faith, and NOT to the us vs them struggle that more conservative Muslims make it out to be....)

So this particular woman? Going overboard. However, a lot of Christians who work with youth do a great job. (As do, I'm sure, a lot of people of other faiths as well--they're not ALL raising fanatics!!!)

[Louise]

Wow- I have grown up in "evangelical Christian" churches and have never seen anything like this. Definitely not the norm AT ALL.

It is obvious that the producer, who calls herself a "liberal feminist" went out of her way to find the weirdest group of Christians in the US- and she had to go to North Dakota to find these people! :-) Somehow I don't think that the 'vacation bible school' in my neighborhood would have made the cut for this video :-)

[Shanna]

I got dragged to a "retreat" with one of my friends back in Jr. High that was eerily familiar to that. I thought it was just a northern Minnesota thing but apparently it is all over.
I was not raised with any religion but was exposed to several through friends and family and what I gathered out of all of that was if you live your life and try to be the best person you can be and be kind to others then if there is a heaven you may have a chance to get there.
That is kind of scarey what that lady said about making these kids into warriors. Can't we just let kids be kids and instill in them some resposibility and teach them right from wrong and let them decide what they want to believe?

[jodie]

Wow, that was some serious happy clapping.

[MommyWannabe]

No, it's for real. And the woman who runs this camp is very proud of how it was portrayed.

And I have a lot of friends who went to Jesus Camp, who grew up in very religious families. The two I'm thinking of, specifically, described things as very, very similar to this video. They both turned out to be lesbians, by the way.

What's disturbing to me about this is that, while I don't have any problem with teenage church-going, so much of it takes lonely kids and makes Jesus their Invisible Friend. And invisible friends ain't healthy for anyone, darlin'.

[Polly]

I am a Christian and a deacon in my church (not that THAT gives credibility...but shows commitment, I guess) and I do think this is extreme.

#1) Worshipping ANYONE other than God/Jesus is totally anti-Biblical....that's right back there with the basics of Moses and the 10 Commandments. So the President Bush thing is absolutely horrifying to me....regardless of whether you like him or not, he is not God.

#2)The bit at the end where they say that this generation is being trained to bring Christ back....Jesus said we will not know. We will not bring him back; that's God's job. And creating 'circumstances' of chaos in the world will not do it.

#3) Us against them does not reflect a Biblical mentality or worldview. Jesus did not preach tolerance, per se (look at what happened when He crashed into the temple and turned out the money-changers--he was intolerant of them) but he preached LOVE for EVERYONE. Regardless of their sin. I think people forget that we are saved by Grace, not works, political beliefs, or anything else. Examples of Jesus' love for others fill the Gospel. Our pastor has always said you can "hate the sin" but you absolutely must "love the sinner." Us v. them is not loving the sinner at all.

#4) I did not see much evidence of this camp teaching God's Word. I saw evidence of teaching political beliefs. Oswald Chambers wrote that we have to look to God's word FIRST before we can form our views. These kids should be learning theology, in a simplified way, not politics. That is their choice when they are older.

I could go on and on but I will stop. Luckily it is me, the philosophy student in college, who saw this and not my sister, the theologian (who is going to divinity graduate school) because she would have five times as much to say!

....and as an aside, I always attended Christian summer camp as a kid and it was nothing like this....it was more like catching bugs and running around outside and doing arts and crafts and swimming...all of those activities were undergirded by lessons of faith and God....very different from this type of youth evangelizing.

[Tine]

I wasn't aware of this Jesus Camp business, but I guess I'm not surprised either. My lack of surprise doesn't mean I don't find it extremely scary. Especially because it's going on so close to me here in Minnesota.

Looks exactly like Christian version of Al-Qaeda to me. Neat. I'm sure Jesus would approve. (NOT!)

I'm a Christian but have almost nothing in common with these people. So let's not paint all Christians w/ the same brush, eh?

[cristy]

I've seen this before. There are places like that as I've been to one with a friend from school. I got through the afternoon and went straight home. Even at 9 I knew something was weird with this. Kids that age don't cry over something like that. That was the part that freaked me out.

Seems to me they're taking a page out of the bible where there will be those after Armageddon who will fight against Satan and they are the ones training for it. I don't know all the particulars, but I'm thinking those people were the ones that didn't go the first time because they didn't believe. So they're training to NOT believe and stay behind in the "army"?

[Molly]

Blog posts like this are always eye-opening for me... mostly because of the comments that are left and what you learn about your readers from those comments.

You have quite the interesting following, here... talk about diversity!

Personally, I agree that the film is frightening. But that's coming from a pro-choice lesbian who hasn't stepped foot in a church since the day I graduated from my Catholic high school (12 years of Catholic school...)and who can't even hear GW Bush's name without cringing.

[Danie'l]

All I can say is... what the fuck?!?!

[Northern Girl]

Very scary, I agree.

[Brandy]

That video was definitely interesting. I have to agree with Julie on one thing though - most "orthodox" christian's don't believe women can be pastors, as the Bible clearly states that woman are not to be above men. I don't agree that they can't teach men, as Jesus made it clear we are all to evangelize his word. That being said, I'm Pentecostal, I believe in speaking in tongues, and I believe in children speaking in tongues (plus a whole lot of other things that some people may find weird - although we are not snake handlers, thank you very much). I don't agree that children need to be radicals or in any way worshipping anything other than the Lord, and that most definitely includes President Bush. I think this camp is emphasizing the wrong message and it's a little scary in this day and age.

[ashpdx]

Yikes! Children worshipping Satan, aka President Bush.
V v scary.

[RainbowW]

Welcome to Texas.

[victoria]

I hate to say it, Tertia, but that brand of "Christianity" is very, very strong in our country. G.W. Bush seems to belong to that group and apparently thinks God wants troops in Iraq. These people are not rational. Which is fine, faith isn't supposed to be rational -- but when folks who have this kind of holy conviction start messing with politics and doing things like starting wars, they become v.v. dangerous.

[faith]

I find this sad. I was raised a Christian. There used to be a time in this country when being patriotic and being a Christian had NOTHING to do with whether you voted Republican or Democratic. There was plenty of evidence of Christian peaceniks and Christians with (for lack of a better word) socialist type agendas for the poor. Since Bush has been president, this whole thing of right wingers linking politcs to religion and patriotism has gotten way out of hand. And actually worshipping George Bush? Totally against the Bible-- no matter how you cut it. These things make me want to cry. It's scary, and I have no idea about how we'll ever put this insane way of thinking back into Pandora's Box. As of late, I've stopped going to "regular" Christian churches, and started attending silent, Quaker meetings instead, because they are more inclusive.

Faith

[Faith]

Oh...and by "this country" I meant the U.S.A.

[solei]

I had to stop that in the middle, it really made me sick. As far as your poster "Julie" saying that she disagreed because women aren't meant to teach men "because the bible says so" just goes to show how freaky the US has become. Pathetic and creepy.

[Suzie-Q.]

I had a physical reaction to that footage. I am a G & D Jewess, a card carrying Democrat and FLAMING liberal...BTW... and tonight just so happens to be our New Year and the beginning of our High Holy Days which culminates in 10 days in Yom Kippur (our day of Atonement). So, I am in a very introspective state of mind at the mo' and perhaps that accounts for my extreme reaction to what those freaks are doing to those poor children.
In law school, I took a course called, "Constitutional Law and Religion". I wrote my upperclass writing requirement (thesis) on "The Right of Parents to Deny Life Saving Medical Treatment to Their Children Based on Religion". The crux of the paper was that NO!!!!! Parents cannot do that no matter what their justification is b/c it is just WRONG. This footage reflects the same principal, only the parents of these children are inflicting emotional and moral harm to these children based on their religious beliefs by allowing them to become pawns in the religious movement of the most extreme religious fanatics we have in our country today and it is truly DANGEROUS. Not just scary.
THIS SHOULD BE A WAKE UP CALL FOR ALL OF US! Jews and Christians alike... Liberals and Conservatives alike.

This is just wrong. WRONG. WRONG.
I pity those children and I hate their parents. They are not teaching bibilical writings and teachings. They are teaching political divisiveness and intolerance.

Tertia, as always, you have chosen a marvelous topic which has spawned incredibly interesting conversation. And, yeah, i am always fascinated by who believes what here... hee hee!

You rock!!!!!!!

[siobhan]

Creepy, scary and very worrying.

[Robin from TLOL]

*shudder*

[Erin]

I feel like I have to speak up for North Dakota a little bit here. A few commenter seem to think that no such church exists in their neighborhood and that the producers had to go all the way to North Dakota to find these freaks. Are you so sure about that?

North Dakota is just a regular state with normal people trying to pay their bills and live life too. In reality, the vast majority of North Dakotans are moderate Lutherans and Catholics. Both our senators are Democrats. We have a very small evangelical population compared to say, the southern states.

I've seen dozens of documentaries highlighting scary religious sects in nearly every state, including New York, Florida, Georgia, Kansas, Missouri, Utah, Montana and Idaho.

Before you start assuming that only North Dakota could be hick enough to play host to such freaks, take a look in your local yellow pages. The group highlighted in the video was Assembly of God. I'm pretty sure you'll find at least one of their churches in your neighborhood.

'Tis true that our rural state is more condusive to hosting a lot of camps, because of the abundance of outdoor space; however, if you take a close look around you'll find this kind of scary shit happening in more than just North Dakota.

[Suzie-Q.]

Erin you are so right! I have met snake handlers in Florida and Polygamist pedophiles in Utah who marry and have sex with 13 year olds! If that's not freakish I don't know what is.

[Foster]

As a tattooed, multi-pierced, liberal, orthodox Christian who is married to a tattooed, pierced liberal elder of the church we attend (which is right across the street), I will say that I am v familiar w/ misconceptions regarding Christianity, so I cant say much about the film w/out actually seeing it. It did look v v weird, BUT it was also edited for the news piece, so..

What I really cant stand is how divisive every topic in the Church is. The "us vs. them" thing. I hate that ppl who arent Christian also toss that statement around w/out always knowing what they are talking about, either. OF COURSE the secular femenist liberal lady was going to say that. Well, yanno what? I often feel that the secular world makes PLENTY of its OWN attacks against Christian values, SO IT WORKS BOTH WAYS. I also find it sad that at the last session (elder) meeting, my pastor thought it would be awesome if my husband went to the next multi-church meeting b/c seeing a tattooed twentysomething stand up and spout orthodoxy might make a few ppl stop and think again. It is sad b/c too many ppl deviate from orthodoxy and from Jesus' message and come up w/ hateful reasons to not allow things when there are sound, nonhateful reasons to not allow them.

I think it is v v important to evangelize to children. I also totally agree with the pastor in the vid that part of the reason so many kids are seeking Jesus is b/c of our societys utter CRAP message of consumerism and monetary "success" and w/ the prevalence of broken homes. My own neighborhood, which has a v active youth ministry, is living proof of this. However, some of the ways that ppl go about evangelizing, I dont agree with, but I also dont agree with everyone elses parenting methods, either, so what are you gonna do?

[Tanya]

Erin, being a fellow former north dakotan, I agree with you completely. I spent 29 years of my life in North Dakota. I don't know these people and I don't agree with what they are teaching their children. It's beyond scary. Thanks for taking the time to educate others that North Dakota is not as isolated and weird as some would believe. We are normal, hard working people, that drink the same Starbucks coffee (ok, only once in a great while - it is spendy), shop at the same Walmart (not if I can avoid it), and eat and the same McDonalds (did you know nuggets are only $1 this week!!!).

[ari]

I saw this posted by someone else, and my first thought was, "What's the big deal?". I remember going to camps and seminars that were not unlike that one. Not quite as extreme, if I recall correctly. I was raised to understand that life is spiritual warfare against satan and as a Christian it was our duty and responsibility to fight the good fight in the name of the lord.

I went to an Assemblies of God church for most of my child/teenagehood.

I can't tell you the last time I attended church that wasn't out of a sense of duty toward my parents.

[Flicka]

Polly and Julie said everything I wanted to say and said it far better than I ever could, so I don't feel the need to repeat it all. I just want to reiterate that these extremists don't characterize us all...and much of what they are doing (speaking in tongues, women in the pastorate) is directly taught against in the Bible.

[alias weeping widow]

Jesus did not preach tolerance. He taught love.