Close in age – my experience

My sister Mel and I are 2.5 years apart, and we have always been Best Friends.  From little. We even lived together when we left home and have always been close.  Which made it even harder to bear when infertility came between us. It shouldn’t have, but it did. My fault. 

But we are close again. Even now, at 37 and 35, and even though our lives are so completely totally different (she = SAHM, happy clapper Bible quoter / me = working mom, swearing, drinking sinner) she is one of my best friends.  I have a group of three girlfriends, close friends who do lunch and dinners together, and she is one of those three.  She is friends with my friends. So for us the age gap thing worked out really well.

 I have another sister, Nina, who is 6 years younger than I am. We’ve only become ‘friends’ in later years.  We have always loved each other etc, but six years is a lot when you are a teenager. We have a lot more in common now, since become mothers.  I’ve often wondered how it felt for her, coming along a few years after, when my sister and I were already so close.  Did she feel outside of that pairing*? How did it make her feel?  She reads my blog but never comments.  Perhaps she might share how that felt for her?

 Then I have a little brother, Paul (who I guess, at 25, is not that ‘little’ anymore).  Paul and I have always had a very special bond, in spite of our 12 year age gap. I am extremely close to my brother. Maybe because we have the “drinking / swearing” thing in common ;-)

 So I guess the age gap thing can work out either way.

 Funny, when I read what a few people said about the family / parents having influence over whether siblings are close or not, I initially balked at the idea.  My initial reaction was “no, that is unfair to put the ‘blame’ on the parents if the siblings aren’t close”, but then I thought about our family, and how my parents were really strong on close family ties.  And I wonder how much of our current closeness is because of my parents influence, and how close we would be without it?  Siblings, what is your view?

When it comes to sibling relationships, how much is due to external influences (parents etc) and how much is due to intrinsic personality differences (or similarities)?

 I hope my kids are close one day.  Well, if Adam gets over biting his sister and Kate stops stealing Adam’s toys, they might have a chance.

 * Which is one of the reasons I am scared to have another child, I’d worry if the next child would feel as if they were on the outside of an existing pairing, or wont that happen? Gee, this sibling stuff is complex! I think we should discuss birth order next, and whether it has shaped who you are.  Short answer = YES!

Comments

[Judy]

This discussion reflects a lot of nature/nurture beliefs I think. My boys are 5.5 years apart and are almost inseparable (right now, the school bus is what separates them most of the time!). It didn't just happen that they are close. We do things as a family. We eat together, we play games together, we all talk together. I would like to think that their closeness is a reflection on our close bond as a family. It has been that way from Day One.

So, yes, I think it has a lot to do with how you are raised and the values your parents instill in you.

As for another sibling for Adam and Kate, I can see your concern. It is simply hard on any group of three at a young age. Someone is going to be the odd man out...when my older son's friends come over to play, we either have to have just one friend or several friends, but never two. Someone always gets their feelings hurt or feels left out when we have a trio.

[jenny]

I do think parents influence how close children are. My mom left my dad when I was 17, my brothers were 11 and 9. We became even closer after that because I took over the "mom" role. I still do in fact, my brothers even call me on mothers day. If that hadn't happened, I'm not sure we'd be as close as we are.

[soralis]

Can't comment on the sibiling thing as I am an only child (which I do not like at all... you can never win a fight against your parents when growing up!! :) ). I do believe the closeness would have something to do with personality and a little to do with family upbringing but what do I know!

As we are 'trying' again I often wonder what will happen if we only have one this time. I worry that the next one will feel 'left out'. I will be interested to see your post on birth order!

Take care

[Pink]

I definitely think the parents have a role in influencing their children's future relationship. My in-laws--while amazing, wonderful people--put a lot of pressure on their kids to succeed academically and, as a result, there is still a lot of competitiveness among them to this day. I know it makes my MIL sad, but I sometimes wish she could see the role that she and my FIL played in it.

Due to multiple divorces, my brothers and I didn't grow up together for a number of years, which definitely influenced our relationship. They lived with my dad in his swinging single days and were much closer to him than I ever was.

One of the reasons I want to have a second is so that Miss P can experience the sibling bond (which, when good, is amazing). I just hope we don't repeat the mistakes of our parents.

[jen]

Back to sibling relations - this is a book I am reading at the moment, very interesting indeed, about how to get your siblings to 'get along' better:

http://www.amazon.com/Siblings-Without-Rivalry-Children-Together/dp/0380799006/sr=8-1/qid=1158669700/ref=pd_bbs_1/102-7367625-3726562?ie=UTF8&s=books

Birth order, eh? Definitely makes a difference. My mum, husband and I are all oldest children, which is partly why we get on so well. We approach circumstances in a very similar way. We had a 'situation' where my M-i-L was throwing a bit of a paddy, and the three of us watched her in amazement that a grown person could act like that. She is the youngest of 5, and has always thrown paddies to get her way - as oldest kids we wouldn;t even dare!

I know that's a gross generalisation, but I do see character traits that run in oldest or youngest - or indeed 'middle' kids. This is a great book that explains how people learn to behave within their 'place' in the family order:

http://www.amazon.com/Families-Survive-Them-Robin-Skynner/dp/0195204662/sr=1-1/qid=1158670074/ref=pd_bbs_1/102-7367625-3726562?ie=UTF8&s=books

[Nina- The youngest Sibling- the one who never comments]

Bloody hell, I feel like the pressure is on now. You see this is why I never comment. I have sat here for about an hour writing and re-writing my stupid comment. Fuckity fuck fuck.
Yes I did feel "left out" about the bond that you and Mellie have/ had. But never really felt too affected about it cause I know that at the end of the day I am the favourite! You sound like a psychologist in your blog entry, has mom said something to you?

P.S. I think you should do an entry on how we all have the same upbringing and same parents but we are all so hugely different, but still all fiercly protective of one another. You dont get more different than the four of us.

P.P.S How come my child was not asked to be part of the wedding service??? Whats wrong with Lily-Rose? Is she not good enough? I'll remember this!

[Ricky-Bobby]

So let me get this right your folks had 3 girls and then had a wonderful son, That must have been hard cause they clearly wanted a boy! That must have tough on you girls with him being the favourite child, plus having seen pictures, he was very clearly the popular one...

Must have made you girls close knowing that he was the favourite.

Also i am sure you got it wrong and he would love to have all of his nieces and nephews involved in his wedding, but proberly just asked if you guys wanted a night off from the kids to let your hair down to drink and be merry with him and his beautiful fiance. ( I am guessing ovbiously)

Just a thought....

[Sami]

I'm a youngest. My husband is an only. We make quite the pair.

My oldest sibling is 16 years older than me. My next oldest sibling is 15 years older than me, and the closest sibling is 9 years older than me. Yes I was a bit of a shock. My sister is 9 years older than me and the two brothers are older than us. I'm not sure if it's because we are closer in age or if it's because we're female but I'm definitely closer to her than I am to my brothers. There's some book by a christian other (no I'm not a bible thumper) but I think it's called Birth Order or something or other... and it was really quite interesting and how it played out and what the personalities of them were etc. He also did a book called Sex Begins in the Kitchen.

[Fiona]

My brothers and I were all two years apart, but we went to boarding school. We lived in an area where there was a school up until Year 7 and then nothing. So at 12 years of age, we each headed off to school in the city. It didn't affect the relationship each of us have with our parents at all. I think perhaps this was even strengthened, as we didn't go through any adolescent rebellion with them - it was all with the school. But I think we missed out on growing up together. My brothers were 10 and 8 when I left, and that was the last time we ever lived together full time. From then on, we only spent holidays together, which were 3 times a year. I absolutely love my brothers, but I'm often hit with the realization that I don't know them terribley well, and we don't have a huge vocabulary of shared experiences.
Hence my kids are NOT going to boarding school. We will damn well pack up and move if that ever becomes our only option!

[wealhtheow]

My brother and I are not particularly close, although we get along well. I don't think this has anything to do with my parents--we always spent a lot of time together as a family. But my brother and I have very different personalities. I also wonder if we would have been close if we hadn't been so close in age (18 months). We were very competitive with each other when we were kids.

[Mel]

Me here. The darling best sister. I think birth order does have an influence on sibling relationships and gaps are clearly important in planning your kids. (although planning shmamming alot of the time)
Like everything else, age gaps have pros and cons. My 1st and middle child are 6 years apart and one a boy, the younger a girl. They do not play or connect very much yet the last one is a girl and 8 years younger than him but by far, his favourite. Personalities have a big part to play and so does parent involvement and encouragement. Eating together as a family is major and I can't wait till we can do that every night. Having silly little family traditions and just hanging out.
Having kids very close together means the older never has enough baby time and expected to grow up too quickly. Having a 6 year gap was awesome in the respect that Daniel had all my attention and we will always be close. Rebeka just 2 when Sofia born and suffered because of it and my baby gets an extended babyhood because their is no little cutie to come after her.
I agree with the parents who say 3 is definately a crowd. Someone is always left out as was poor Nina for a long time.
As for that wedding thing......... I never stated my critters had to be part of the wedding, just be there! Fartbags!!!
Lucky single children without azzhole siblings!
Mel (Mom & Dad's favourite!)

[Keri]

My brother and I are 2 years and 10 months apart. Since we are both deaf, a lot of people are surprised to find out that we are not close at all. Most deaf children in a family with hearing parents tend to be close. I think it had a lot to do with how my parents raised us. Now that I think about it, I feel like my parents raised TWO "only childs."

I grew up attending public schools while my brother grew up at a residential deaf school (though he did not stay in the dorms until later years since the school was nearby). Then I went to boarding school and later, college. Also, when we fought, my parents tended to believe anything that my (younger) brother said and always punished me for "being old enough to know better." Even if my brother was lying through his teeth and his crying was fake. That led me to resent him.

Now that we both are older (27 and 24), the distance is far too great to close in. The only good thing that came out of this is that I now know what NOT to do with my children and will do everything in my power to foster family closeness and healthy sibling relations.

[Sarah, Goon Squad Sarah]

I am an oldest (I have a younger brother) and I've always been bossy. I still am.

That being said, Ian is my older twin (by two minutes) and Claudia bosses all of us around. Maybe it's a girl thing.

[Miranda]

Amen to that Keri, I've wound up resenting my youngest brother who was constantly believed over myself and my older-younger brother, even when he was lying as I was "old enough to know better" (Although now he has realised that lying won't get him anywhere and he is getting his just desserts (6 weeks in juvenile remand))

I think its a lot to do with the parenting the kids receive. I don't think the life-stages thing comes into play until they're older. Just my two cents there...

[R]

quoting Nina: "we all have the same upbringing and same parents but we are all so hugely different, but still all fiercly protective of one another. You dont get more different than the four of us."

that could have been written about my husband's family! 4 very different siblings and 4 completely different personalities and lives.

I'm an only so I'm always the one on the outside looking in on this stuff.

[jane]

I have an older brother (5 yrs older) and a younger brother (1 1/2 years) and although we are semi close we aren't best friends. I think it's the boy/girl thing rather than anything else. From a young age I had lots of girl friends (next door neighbors) that I played with and my brothers were the same.

It may be different with my trio since they are in so much and special needs. It may be awhile before they have outside friends to being together will probably help foster a close relationship.

It's nice to have siblings and close family. I always wished I had a sister to share with (brothers are NOT the same!!) But all in all I had a great family and great siblings and great friends!

[Brandy]

Not much input here. I am an only child and wanted it like that while growing up. I didn't want to share anything. I have a half-brother that is 3 years younger than me and a half-sister that is 6 years young than me. Even though we never lived together or got to see each other much (due to my father which is a whole different story), I was VERY protective of them. I am still like that about my brother. I love them dearly and wish we were closer. I do believe parents play a big role. For example, my husband has a sister that is 5 years younger than him. She was born with a birth defect. His parents spent a lot of time with her because of her surgeries, therapy, dr appts, etc... My husband was left out for a while. They never got along until she gave birth to our wonderful niece and we had our children. Now they get along so well and they are friends. Well, that might not be a very good example but it shows how home life that makes things turn out.

[Audrey]

Short(ish) Answer: My sister and I are twenty-one months apart and even now, at twenty-five and twenty-three, we still don't get along that well. My mom and her sister are ten months apart ("Irish twins"), and they REALLY don't get along; maybe their example is why my sister and I are not close. I think that more things than age and birth order play into how close sibilings are.

[patricia]

My brother and I are 2 years apart. We have zero in common. We are neither friends, nor enemies. We are just very, very different personalities. And I hate to say it, but we are on very different intellectual levels so it's hard to find a meeting of he minds. I do believe that more than anything, closeness depends on the personalities involved. There are lots of other factors. i.e. divorce, age gap, etc, but in the end it seems to boil down to 'can we relate to each other?'

That being said, I think that when you have a genetic bond you are more likely to have a similar disposition and personality. Adoption does bring in different gene pools, and different predispositions. of course. But we are not related to our friends and we just get along with them, even it they are ten years older or younger.

[whitney]

That is one reason I haven't had another child yet--my two are so close, that I'd be afraid a third child would be excluded. Then I would feel like I'd have to have a fourth, to give the third one a playmate, and I'm NOT having four children!! Just not for me!

[Lisa]

I have a sister who is about 2.6 years younger than me, and we're not close (though we've been getting closer lately). We're still in our 20's though, and we're very very different, so maybe as we get older we'll get closer? I really hope so. But we're so different, and have always kind of battled, even since we were little.

And my brother is 7 years younger and we're so alike. I feel like we've lived the same life, just 7 years apart. We even look like male/female versions of each other. Now that he's older we call each other with our problems, but mostly I give him advice since I didn't have a big brother or sister to help me.

So I really think it depends on the temperament of the children. My family has always been very close (though I live 3,000 miles away from them, which makes it easier, hehe) and I never go more than a week without talking to all of them. So I really think it depends on the personalities of the kids.

[Lydia]

This is a question that consumes my thoughts at times, because the age gap between my theoretical child(ren) grows every month. My daughter is four. We thought our kids would be 2.5 to 3.5 years apart; we thought that would be perfect. Then that sneaky bastard Secondary Unexplained Infertility came in and blew our desires and plans to bits. All I know comes out of my own experience with my sister: We are fourteen years apart in age, almost a lifetime. Also we didn't grow up together, as we have different mothers and grew up on opposite sides of the US. However, when sister finally came to where we were, I was six and she was 19. We have had a really wonderful and unique relationship ever since. We don't have years of sibling rivalry or bitterness or anything to come between our intrinsic compatibility as people, so we are very close and trust each other completely. But neither do we have all those delightful childhood memories and alliances that make up a very important part of the sibling relationship. So, we are oddballs, but I love her more than almost anyone else in this world, besides my husband and daughter. She has been there for me through every shitty thing I've been through, and every amazing thing, she advised me on things that my mother couldn't, and she never judges or criticizes me. I would certainly have liked to grow up with her, but really, I wouldn't have it any other way.

[Emma]

My brother (30) is 19 months younger than I am (32 now...). My mom got pregnant only a couple of months after she had me, but she miscarried at five months pregnant. If she'd carried this first boy to full term, he would have been my brother. But then I wouldn't have had thís brother, who is very precious to me.

My parents had their own shop, so the two of us were forced to spend a lot of time together. We were never friends though, fought all the time, basically until I left home when I turned 18. Now that he's married and all, we really get along well.

Then there is my little sister (26 now)... When I cried, she cried; wherever I went, she was there. Albeit having our own rooms, we shared beds voluntarily for years! But then I left for university when she was only 12, so I missed out on a lot (bad) things happening in her teen years. She eventually turned to my brother and although they had their fair share of heated arguments, they really spent (and still spend) a lot of time together just hanging out and going to bars and stuff. It doesn't help that they live in the same city, and I don't.

I've always been the bossy big sister. That's in my genes I guess, but my parents only added to that by always saying "the older the wiser" to me. It must be great to be twins: no parent can ever say that you :-)

The funny thing is that although I'm not best friends with my siblings (and I see them only once a month or so), I love them unconditionally and do things for them (financially, time wise) that I don't think I'll ever do for my best friends. Someone here called it "fiercely protective" and that's exactly what it feels like. There's a bond between us that is so natural and right: I feel safe being around them.

*turns on daydream mode* If I had anyting to chose for my not-yet-existing-children-but-hopefully-there-in-the-near-future, I'd have them two years apart. And all boys. Four of them :-)

[LaurieC]

I have 3. The 2 younger are close in age and the older one is much older, 4 year gap between she and my 2nd. I don't think she feels left out, because as the older she is off at school and doing other things. We'll see how it goes as they get older, I suppose. I try to be fair to them all and give them all equal attention. It's hard, for sure, but I really try not to play favorites.

[MIM]

T,

I have siblings but have never met them, so I can't answer your question. I can tell you, however, that YOU'RE my kind of sibling! Drinking, sinning, swearing, working ... yeah, I hear that.

[SheilaC]

I don't believe that "three is a crowd" necessarily. Our triplets often play together, or they pair up while one is interested in something different. The pairings change all the time, so one child is not regularly excluded. They each have their own personalities, and certainly compete for parental attention, to be first, and so on. But not more than I and my siblings did growing up. It's not a built-in conflict just because there are 3 of them.

In fact, I know some twin moms who say the fighting is much less when a friend comes over to play, so there are 3. And I have found that we have more conflict and competition when a friend comes over to play, because all 3 of my kids want to play with him/her at once. It's better if we invite two or three friends, to make 5 or 6 playmates, than a group of 4.

So every family can be different, and personalities and parental guidance are important in mitigating sibling conflict, at least in the early years. "Siblings without rivalry" is a good book to help parents think about these issues, and it's an old standard so probably in most public libraries.

So don't be afraid to have another child, just because you've heard "3 is a crowd", or similar worries about being outnumbered by your children.

[debi]

i too come from a very close family, so i love hearing about yours as it reminds me of mine. i have three brothers: B is 18 mo. older than me, J is 3 yrs younger, S is 7 years younger. i have a different but close relationship with each. B and i went to school together and always got along though we weren't great friends or anything. in our teens we got closer as he'd tell me about his girl troubles and look out for me. J and i have always been great friends. he was the one i played with most. S was the little one that i looked out for. he now lives with us, so that's been changing our relationship a bit :)

we currently all live in the same (small) town and see each other all the time. i get along really well with my two SILs as well.

i think our closeness is due to the fact that we moved a lot as kids and grew accustomed to finding support and stability in our family rather than in our friends. B and i have also spent the last 9 years (i'm 27 now) without our parents around, with J and S coming to join us over this time, so we've learnt to look out for each other.

so, i think parental influence and the general growing-up situation make a big difference on family closeness. also, re- three-somes fight: when we fought as kids, it was usually three against one. but, it was never all the boys against me. i was always in the winning crowd. :)

[lt]

I think, like most things, that it's a combination of nature and nurture. I--like many of the commenters above--have a neutral relationship with my brother. We are very different, and while we love each other a lot I would not say that we are close. What's interesting is that we are both very close to our parents and always have been, just not to each other. In fact, a family therpaist once told my parents that my brother and I would be closer if we had more reason to be allies *against* our parents. I think our love for our parents in some ways made us be competitive with each other. I can't really think what my parents ever did to foster that competitiveness, so maybe it was just how our personalities developed. I'll have to ask my mom about that. I'm sure she's obsessed over it many times, because she'd like us kids (at 30 and 33, are we still the "kids"?) to get along a little better. It's frankly one of the regrets of my life too.

[Boonzaierbabe]

I know that for my husband, his sister being 6 years older than him was never a problem. In a way, he saw her as a second mom and so never really had a sibling rivalry of sorts with her. however, my brother is only 4 years older than me and we are very NOT close. Partly bcz my mom never really stopped the bullying, thinking it was just normal sibling rivalry.

[jo]

My brother is one of three boys. He is the youngest and is seven years younger than the rest. They have no relationship and do not even talk. His brothers never had any time for him and used to play cruel jokes on him when they were teenagers. Mind you that could just be because they are assholes and not because of the age difference.

I am an only child and boy does that make me insecure when I am not the centre of attention. It is scarey when you realise just how much that affects you when you are "not inlcuded".

[jo]

Okay obviously I need to stop having a glass of whine as I write this.

Eh hem - my husband is one of three boys......

[Rosetta]

I agree that parents have a great deal of impact on closeness between siblings. My Mom and Dad divorced when I was 10 and my sister 8 - my Mom was devastated by the divorce and completely unable to support any relationship we wanted to have with our Dad - I chose to stick by him, and my younger sister felt responsible to protect our Mom and stuck by her, and the Mom/Sis versus Me/Dad dynamic has lasted for 20 years. There are other issues at hand that affect the situation - my Mom's ongoing untreated mental illness, my sister's addiction problems, my anger problems, my Dad's emotional withdrawal - but lots of families have these issues and the siblings manage to remain close. So much energy was put into "whose side are you on" over the years, instead of "we're a family and we're all on each other's side," - it's incredibly difficult to repair.
Therapists I've had over the years have indicated that this break down - older sibling goes with Dad in a divorce and the younger sibling sticks with Mom - is very, very common. I saw that movie The Squid and The Whale earlier this year and the similarities took my breath away.