What’s the difference between a dissenter and a troll, you ask?
It’s often not what you say, but the way you say it.
A dissenter is someone who disagrees with what I have to say, and they tell me so in no uncertain terms, but without attacking my character, being ugly or calling me names. Some of my best (blog) friends are dissenters*.
A troll is someone who appears to be unable to disagree without attacking. They seem to like to hit where it hurts, to find a vulnerable spot and to take an inordinate amount of pleasure in sticking the knife in. There is a very ugly side to a troll. Trolls do not like conversation, they like to attack, hit you where it hurts, and then run away.
It’s the difference between saying “I don’t agree with what you are doing, here is why..” vs “You are a terrible person for doing that, *I* would never do that, MY way is the only way, if you are not just like me then you must be BAD”.
I often wonder if the narrow-minded, closed world view of a troll is not an indication of their inherent paranoia that if they do not defend their own beliefs, their point of view, by attacking others with contemptuous indignation, that maybe, heaven forbid!, they might just find out that the alternative view point has merit, or ever worse that their way might not necessary be the best way. And where does that leave them… No moral high ground, adrift in a sea of equality, of multi cultural, multi facetted diversity. Must be really scary for someone who bases their sense of self worth on the assumption of superiority of belief.
Your way is the way that works for you, if it makes you happy, then I am happy for you. If you are a SAHM, a working out of the home mom, a breast feeder, a bottle feeder, a fertile or an infertile, if you think Botox is the Devils Spawn or you think it is fine for me, not for you thankyouverymuch, then good for you.
As I’ve said before, many times, the world would be an exceptionally boring place if we were all the same, with the same views, beliefs and opinions. Diversity is fantastic, lets celebrate our differences and welcome the opportunity to learn from each other. Lets do it in a way that welcomes healthy debate, intelligent conversation, and if not consensus at the end of the day, then an agreement to respectfully disagree.
As for my blog…. dissenters welcome – trolls not.
Oh, and lastly – dear Mollie, I might be an asshole, but I am YOUR asshole.
Smooch!
* My other blog friends are assholes, but in the nicest possible way.
*Applauding* Well said, Tertia!
Posted by: Jo | 25 September 2005 at 03:19 PM
t,
i just have to tell you how much i admire your viewpoint. i agree with you, but sometimes i have a lower tolerance for people being assholes(in the..more traditional sense, not the tertia sense) than you seem to.
i think its bloody fantastic that you've managed to share so much of yourself and had all these admirers...and you provoke thought, and thats what its all about, in the end,really.
Posted by: vanessa | 25 September 2005 at 03:21 PM
See, I'm a "professional" devils-advocate. Even if I disagree with you, I'll argue the other point of view, just for fun. But I try very VERY hard never to troll. If I find myself tempted to make a personal attack, I just turn off and walk away.
Posted by: wookie | 25 September 2005 at 04:20 PM
Opps... that's "even if I AGREE with you, I'll argue the other way, just for fun"
Posted by: wookie | 25 September 2005 at 04:21 PM
Is it still a troll if they aren't anonymous, but still a jerk? Like if they link to their real blog and email? I thought a true troll is an anonymous commenter that appears out of nowhere, then disappears into the night (for example, I'm thinking of that Holly chick on Cecily's site awhile back.)
Often I think that the "devil's advocates" (who can sometimes tend to be jerks, true) get unfairly labeled "trolls." Then everyone goes into attack mode and throws the f-bomb at them. This always irritates me. It completely changes the tone of the conversation.
Posted by: Ellen | 25 September 2005 at 04:38 PM
that does it. you are on my forever love list.
and i am a most assuredly the most adorable devil's advocate of all time.
just ask me dammit! PUHLEEEZZZZ ask me!!!
Posted by: b | 25 September 2005 at 05:33 PM
Well,
I would love to be considered a darling asshole!! I admire that you welcome intelligent dissent and still embrace them afterwards. You are such an open person T. A helluva lot more kind than I am. I think its time we get a K & A picture fix! ;-)
Take care and thanks for just being you.
Posted by: Blondie | 25 September 2005 at 05:50 PM
I don't know what you were getting flamed for but, if it's botox -- I've had it, it works great, and if you can afford it, why the Eff not? Just be advised: those needles do hurt. Also you feel this little *crunch* as the needle penetrates the fascia under the skin. Kind of gross. Not that bad though. And a little botox does NOT destroy all facial expression and you do NOT end up looking like some overdone freak. It just smoothes out a few wrinkles. Not a big deal.
Posted by: victoria | 25 September 2005 at 06:33 PM
Tertia, you old ho, you are a GODDESS. Smooooooooching your wrinkly brow.
Posted by: Menita | 25 September 2005 at 07:33 PM
I also thought Trolls were more like drive by shooters. They lurk and lie in wait until they can attack anonymously and then scamper off.
I think the repeat offenders on your blog are more Assholes in the strict sense of the word (*not Tertia's definition) than Trolls.
They are just mean people who suck and are not welcome here.
'Nuff said.
Tertia, love, let's move on...
no sense you wasting any more precious time on these blow-hards.
Posted by: Suzie-Q. | 25 September 2005 at 07:48 PM
yes, I agree......no more attention to the trolls....
Posted by: Laura | 25 September 2005 at 08:21 PM
I love the Tertia Assholes but can't stand the trolls. I have to admit that sometimes I want to vent my fury on the trolls but I've learnt to step away from the comments section. At first I thought I was just sticking up for a mate by defending Tertia, but about six months ago, I realised that trolls and other unwelcome creatures thrive on the attention and I was just making it work. So now I just keep my mouth shut. (And boy oh boy, is that hard work!)
Posted by: Rosemary | 25 September 2005 at 08:29 PM
One point of clarification: Botox is not the devil's spawn; my kid is.
Posted by: Orange | 25 September 2005 at 09:14 PM
Ohhhhhhhhhhh, I get it now. I was thinking you were talking about those little troll DOLLS with the goofy hair and all.
*slapping my forehead*
Posted by: Judy | 25 September 2005 at 09:22 PM
No wonder my panties don't fit.
Posted by: Mollie | 26 September 2005 at 01:40 AM
Tertia, you are amazing (not to mention G&D). Now you've even got me liking being called an asshole! Boy, this IF stuff takes one to all kinds of new experiences.
Posted by: Cathy | 26 September 2005 at 03:53 AM
Words I try to live by:
"Defend and Diminish".
If I have to defend my beliefs, my points, my decisions, the only person I diminish by doing this is myself. If I have to attack a blogger to make my point and defend myself, in so doing, I diminish myself and not the other person.
Tertia, you do not need to diminish yourself by defending yourself to your readers. Nor should your commenters diminish their opinions and points of view by defending them, and particularly in an attacking fashion.
This is a pretty abstract concept, and I apologize if I am not doing it justice in explaining it.
Tracey
Posted by: Tracey Dixon | 26 September 2005 at 05:38 AM
Suzie-Q, those are called assHATS ;o)
Posted by: Carrie Jo | 26 September 2005 at 05:45 AM
Wow..I've scanned the posts and sure, i saw some dissenters, but I must have missed the trolls.
Or the post you deleted was a doozy! And I missed it!
My opinion? You write a blog and you open yourself up to arseholes. But I'm sure you have a tough skin and don't give a flying fig what they think :)
Posted by: pepper | 26 September 2005 at 08:06 AM
Don't feed the trolls...
Posted by: Andy | 26 September 2005 at 09:12 AM
"Ohhhhhhhhhhh, I get it now. I was thinking you were talking about those little troll DOLLS with the goofy hair and all.
*slapping my forehead*"
Judy, ROFLMAO! You made my day. :)
Posted by: Dani | 26 September 2005 at 04:47 PM
So if a troll is someone who writes nastily in the way of disagreeing with you, what do you call someone who writes nastily in the way of agreeing with you/defending you? I'm talking in general. Cause I read those kinds of comments just as much as the trollish, unfortunately.
Posted by: Rivka | 26 September 2005 at 05:51 PM
The problem with trolls is that they must have the lowest self esteem, not to mention bad horrible lives to act the way they do. A dissenter may say they don't like something, but they aren't going to be rude every time. A troll? Keeps coming back and attacking you from every which angle. And personally, I'm sick of trolls.
Posted by: Sarcastic Journalist | 26 September 2005 at 06:35 PM
A dissenter I be. I be a dissenter. Not a troll, not a mole and not a lamenter.
-Prina
wfkids.com
Posted by: Prina Cork | 27 September 2005 at 02:10 AM
CarrieJo~
I'm just curious... What's the difference between an "assHAT" and an "assCLOWN"?
anybody?
;)
Posted by: Suzie-Q. | 27 September 2005 at 05:10 AM
Here are some helpful ass word definitions from Merlin's Lists of Five Things: http://www.5ives.com/archives/002995.php
Five ass-related words I think I use a lot
1. metric assload (n.) - a lot
2. asshat (n.) - willfully ignorant person
3. assy (adj.) - unacceptably low-quality
4. big-ass (adj.) - large
5. asstacular (adj.) - really bad
I will add this one
6. asshole - a vulgarity used by Tertia that gives her readers an oddly warm fuzzy feeling
Posted by: baby metropolis | 27 September 2005 at 08:28 PM