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Your babies are damn lucky to have you miss Tertia!

Some people don't say to themselves what is in their brain on the tip of their tongue before putting it out there for everyone to hear, do they?

Remember, we all know your children are actually SO worth it that you have are working outside of the home for their betterment of their futures. How awesome a commitment is that?

Tertia=favorite career mom.

When will we, as women, stop trying to one-up each other?

I mean WTF? We are ALL trying to do the best we can for those that we love. And we all have good things in life and shit things in life.

We really need to eliminate the > and < thoughts from our vocabularies, don't we?


In defense of SAHM's and their insensitive comments--probably someone, somewhere has made this woman feel "less than" for not making career a top priority. So she feels defensive from the get-go. I understand why that comment struck a nerve with you and it WAS insensitive--all I'm saying is, that comment wasn't really directed at you so much as it was designed to protect her from being seen as a loser in the eyes of a world that really doesn't value stay-at-home moms--a world that glorifies career ambition and financial success. It would be good to find a response that defuses rather than ignites the old battle between the two groups--one that affirms that your choice does not denigrate hers and her choice does not denigrate yours.

I feel the same rising rage when I hear a career woman who is a mother make an offhand comment to a group like, "I'm not going to stay home and let my mind go to mush/waste my education/waste my talents, and I want to teach my children that women are capable of doing BETTER in life, etc." I mean, what kind of crap is that? As if I have a mind of mush, am wasting my education and talents, and that I am too stupid to do "better" with my life than take care of kids? (This is all presuming I ever get children to stay home for--as yet, that scenario is hypothetical so I just get all worked up over the mere possibility that they are insulting the future me.) :-)

Anyway, don't take it personally, because it wasn't meant that way. But it was insensitive and it would be great if you could find a way to make her see that in the future, she should probably think before she speaks.

What a dick. Can only assume she is massively insecure and in need of reassurance about staying at home to say such a rude thing.

Wessel - words from the wise! i absolutely didn't think of that, you are probably right. I was just so stung by what she said. And she probably hit a nerve for me.

I don't think it matters what you decide about you children, somebody will have a bloody opinion!!
To work, to stay at home or to breast feed or not, oh and not to forget cloth versus disposable nappies! Then theres the do you dress them alike? ( I have girlie twins) bright colours on newborns?.....I could go on!!!
Just do what is the right thing for you and your family and sod the rest!
PS I'm 42, so while usually irritating sadly no longer young! sigh

i love you! maybe its coz i can actually imagine they way you talk since we have the same accent. I dont know, but i get your humour. its brilliant!

stupid woman!

**meant SAHM is stupid, not you.

But I spoze you can be too sometimes, in an asshole kinda way.


Hi Tertia! We don't see enough of you on invisions, come bring your gorgeous and divine self over more! I am a sahm and while I'm shocked someone would say to that I wonder if she was covering for herself . I often feel a bit inadequate when talking to working moms that they think "oh, she JUST stays home". I don't know that they actually feel that way but, I sometimes feel that they do. Maybe she was trying to justify it thinking that oh, this lady is a good mom and has a great job and I'm just the mom? Did that make any sense? Regardless it was rude. We're all moms, I wish we could band together and realize we're all trying to raise our children, the next generation, together!

time to close the italics

I tend to agree with the above posters.....I'm sure the lady didn't mean it in a rude way but was covering for herself. I am a SAHM and proud of it, and most of the time don't feel the need to "defend" my decision, but sometimes in the presence of many "working" mothers (because aren't we ALL working mothers :) I do feel like I "just" stay at home. Especially when I see the new cars and new houses and then come home in my old car to my old house. And maybe it's because I had more of a choice, I didn't HAVE to work, I didn't HAVE to stay at home. I don't know. But I can see both sides!

Now I wonder if my post is going to be in italics too......I have no idea how to turn that off! Love reading your blog......

Don't let it bother you - it was probably an offhand comment that just came across badly. I have been a working mom and a sahm, and there are ups and downs to both. As a working mom I felt like I wasn't there enough for my kids. As a sahm, I am not contributing to the money, of which there is never enough, and I am not using my degree which I worked very hard for. It is a trade off either way!

If you're getting pop-ups, you should switch to Firefox/Mozilla. Works great.

People can be pretty stupid huh? I just yesterday put my 18 month old son in a daycare center (my sister had been watching him) and he is having a very hard time with the transition. When I was telling a coworker about it she actually said to me "well maybe you should think twice about why you had a child in the first place if you were just going to let other people raise him" Anyways I know you should just ignore people like that but its so hard sometimes. I think you are a great mom and those adorable little kids are lucky to have you!

Woohoo and I stopped the italics!! :)

I disagree..

I think she totally meant it in a snide way, because she felt inadequate while you and wine drinker were talking about working. Its a typical mommy drive-by, I'd have way more respect if she had contributed to the conversation in an intelligent way, I mean why be insecure about a few mates chatting about working, when in all honesty she could have probably added alot to the conversation. Why is it that we treat each other like that, that moment was a great opportunity to meet to new friends, who knows if she had made the effort she could have seen another way to parent...

sorry I'm a lot less forgiving then the posters above, probably because as a working woman its happened to me to many times to count!


T - the whole debate is unsolvable, IMO. Someone is always going to be ticked off at the "other" side. Having been in both places, I really try hard not to step on any toes. It doesn't always work, though.

I give you kudos for NOT saying anything - not the time or place. She (catty SAHM girl) isn't worth it.

I've done just about every mothering gig: career, home career, and SAH and here's what I think:

Every mother struggles with that decision. Even when she doesn't have a lot of options, or ANY options, deep down I believe that we all wonder if we are doing the right thing for our children. When you are among women who have made the same decision as you (like the fellow wine drinker) you get implied validation for your decision which = less pressure and anxiety. When you are the odd mom out (for example the SAHM in your story) then you are by virtue of not receiving implied validation searching for justification.

One should strive to find that without the asshat comments, but hey, each side of the fence has plenty of asshatedness to go around.

I've been both a victim of the mommy-drive-by and an (inadvertant, really) perpetrator. It's such a sensitive thing really...and very difficult not to be an asshat when you let your guard down. Because really, we all want to hear how our decision is the most G&D decision anyone could make and v. rarely do we get that.

Wow, I'm rambling.

I have a pop-up blocker and still got it. This time, however, am happy to report nothing popped.

t the end of the day that discussion is truly useless bcs SAHM often feel frustrated and antagonised even if they know they're doing the right thing for them, even more so if they wished they could work but that's not PC; and working mothers also feel guitly and antagonised, especially if they really do love not caring for the babies all the time. So everyone has a hard time w outside snide remarks and self-doubt and criticism.

But that woman was a bloody cow, sorry. Regardless of where you are in life, and how much grief you're being given bcs of it, if your self-aggrandising strategy is walking over someone else's choices so as to make yours shine purer - you're a bloody cow/wanker and deserve to be soundly smacked across the mouth. Go for the shins Dahling, Southern Europe supports you! And Wessel is a better person than I am.

As a SAHM, I apologize on behalf of her...I think she sounds like the insecure type too.

She was telling it to herself more than you. Or, as Oprah says, "hurt people hurt people."

I know I am not as G&D as you are Tertia, and this is totally off topic, but I want to be able to say "Bloody Hell" and not sound like a Yankee freak doing it.

You are too cool for words.

And don't let the turkeys get you down. Sounds to me like she was already in defense mode being a SAHM talking to two WOHMs.

Bloody hell. (see it doesn't sound the same)

Tertia, I know you didn't want to turn this into a SAHM vs working outside the home debate, but...I never really know what to say when I am told by a new mother that they have decided not to return to their job. I usually reply, "you lucky devil" I, myself, am not a lucky devil and I have to go back to work in 2 months. Then again, I am lucky enough to have a great job to go back to. My employer stresses the importance of family and I take great comfort in that. It doesn't mean that I am not going to spend the first few weeks back feeling horrible (read - having a good cry in the washroom periodically). When I sit and think about it, sometimes it feels that this is a "grass is greener" type of situation. There are days when I can't wait to go back to work, and days, like today, when I think they will have to drag me back, kicking and screaming.

I think the revolting applies perfectly to that woman *yuck* she needs to get her head out of her arse (from a SAH-home educating-mum). Maybe she's been bashed for her choices in the past, but its still a pretty stupid thing to say. Insecure people are so hard to deal with.

I also noted that your readers are disgustingly young *jealous*.

Tertia, I use WOHM vs. WAHM because when people hear that I "work" (putting in quotes because don't we all) they assume I go to another location and work there. I don't, and that makes my experience of both working and mothering way different from that of moms who work at another location. I guess it probably doesn't really matter, but it's about context really. I can't, for example, commiserate about having to leave my kids for the whole day. But I can commiserate about toolish bosses and underfunded projects, etc.

That mom was just dumb. I wish you'd said something like "I decided my children were worth eating and having a roof over their heads."

Well said, Wessel.

Ditto many of the posters above re: insecurity.

I hate mommy drive-bys. Do we need a couple verses of Kum ba ya or something? I try to rise about these sort of comments, but I don't always succeed.

I feel that so much energy is wasted sniping at other mothers. Why don't we spend that energy looking outward? Why do we allow ourselves to feel the burden of parenting guilt? (Anybody know of a father who felt hideously guilty for going back to work? Anyone?) We should be concentrating on making our world friendlier for all moms and families, regardless of their situations and choices.

Another minor gripe. Yes, I work and my paycheck contributes to our household. But, we could survive on just DH's paycheck. I work because I enjoy working. If that makes me a bad mommy, so be it.

That was completely sucky.

I've had the "If you wanted a child, you should have stayed home with her" comment several times over the past two years. My dd is 2 1/2 and she's in a small in home daycare. I'm 24 and a nursing student - people loooooove to point out how much she "misses me" and how much we're not going to be "bonded" properly. I've started carrying a steak knife to stab people with when they piss me off!!

I don't know if it's the location I live in or the people I associate with, but I've never had the sense that anyone would be sanctimonious about being a SAHM. Most of the time, I think, we assume that a person is a SAHM if they have found a way to afford it and isn't if they haven't. Period. I don't buy into the "you'll find a way if your kids mean something to you". Sometimes, it's simply not economically viable.

Given your ability to provide two people caring for your children in the home while you're at work, I'd say you've no reason to feel bad. I personally worry about how daycare will affect my children. Seems to me all I hear about are horror stories involving sending your wonderful well-behaved child in and getting a swearing, kicking, hitting monster back.

But that's my particular demon.

Moxie, I laughed when I read your comment: I decided my children were worth eating. I know I am taking it out of context, and you meant something else entirely, but I have nothing intelligent to bring to this discussion this morning. Thanks for the laugh, though.

Agree with Sherry about Mozilla. No one should use Internet Explorer as is evil.

I am getting pop-ups too - and I already have the google toolbar installed with its pop-up blocker active...

I have smoke coming out my ears, Tertia. But I won't hijack your blog to vent.

Just one question though: why aren't FATHERS who work "out of the home" accused of excessive materialism and overweening ambition when they choose to develop many facets of themselves?

Tertia, it's your super-cool new toys that are causing the pop-ups, I think.

Think of it this way - so many of your readers are younger because you are gorgeous and divine and that is completely ageless.

Honey, you are a BABE IN THE WOODS. I'm a startling 39 years old. Yesterday I went to the OB/Gyn and as I was rattling on about my various aches and pains she asked me when was the last time I had my cholesterol checked. I quite sheepishly told her that it had been about 7 years, and that it had been a tad high at that point, but my ratios were so good that it wasn't a concern. Anyway, her reply was "Well, I think we need to check it. YOU'RE GETTING TO AN AGE WHERE WE NEED TO KEEP AN EYE ON THESE THINGS (emphasis mine). So she gave me that lab order, which I promptly took to my car and slammed into the glove compartment. I've been giving my glove compartment a stiff middle finger pretty regularly since then, and it's pissing off the other drivers.

Now pardon me, but I must go pick up medications and I seem to have misplaced my cane.

You feel old?

I'm a freaking GRANDMA! Do you hear me? A granny, nana, meemaw, nanny, old fucking crone!


I even have gray hair- till my wonderful stylist covers it up for me!

I'm old... old... old...

Yes, I'm getting popups suddenly on your blog, too. Hate those things. Must be from one of your new features.

I remember when I had my son one of my friends I guess she would be a SAHM. She's working now but before she would be like "I didn't go back to work until my son was 6 monthes". That USED TO PISS ME OFF like ok sorry I didn't get fired and am now depending on unemployment checks, food stamps, and her mother. Yeah I went back to work as soon as my six weeks were up.. But you know what who else is going to put food on the table. I would love to go to tot and mommy classes or go to the gym to get this darn baby fat off But I can't!!! I need to survive. So the next time somebody makes a rude comment to anyone whether it's SAHM to WOHM or WOHM to SAHM stuff it!! It's nobodies business if a woman chooses to go back to work or if a woman decides she does not want to. Why do we have to FORCE our insecurities or snideness to others.

That woman ? Stupid insensitive bitch! I wish you could have said it.

I can't even tell you the comments that both my husband and I have gotten about both of us working and the kid being at daycare all day. (I have an incredibly demanding job, too, I'm a litigation attorney in a firm dominated by men with stay at home wives). Like when I told a SAHM that my daughter was in daycare all day she said, "How's that working out" in a snide voice. (given, she did apologize immediately).
Unfortuneatly, that will not be the last comment made to you. I think she wasn't thinking (like the woman who made the comment to me) -- I definately think she didn't mean that your kids aren't worth it. although that's totally how it came across.

My browser (Apple's Safari) has a built-in pop-up blocker. I think your guest book has Evil Ways of Circumventing Pop-Up Blockers. My assvice? I'd chuck the guest book, and then I'd track down that broad and kick her in the shins.

I stay at home with my kid and do a little freelance work because I am too fucking lazy to work full-time (and we can afford to get by on my husband's income, and my work lends itself nicely to freelancing). Now, I realize that "too fucking lazy to work" is not a description of every SAHM, but it pretty well describes me. So there.

The whole SAHM, WOHM thing cannot be resolved. Ever.

People will feel the need to defend their own decisions/choices. And it will come off as snarky to the listeners on the other side.

We all just have to keep in mind that, what we choose is OUR OWN DECISION and we are all entitled to whichever way we want to go. And that is the best for OUR OWN family, at that particular period of time. Without any need to defend/attack...

Some who stay at home are SO self righteous. Some who go to work are V. defensive. You don't have to be PC with me, Tertia. You are a working goddess. I am a domestic goddess. From now on WG and DG for short. Witty comeback for witch friend of a friend would have been..."Well, my children AREN'T worth it, the worthless little buggers!". Tongue in cheek, of course.

Yes, those self-righteous bitches are really annoying.

They always act like it was a choice for everyone and "by golly you're just selfish if you don't make the same choice, what the heck is wrong with you!?" Well, here's a news flash for the self-righteous, some of us don't have a choice!

I am blessed, blessed I tell you with a work from home job, but it's not for everyone and they aren't that easy to find so...so there! LOL! Plus I have a wonderful husband who loves me and our children but who does not have a whole lot of earning power, so I'm the primary bread-winner round these parts...and yes, I'm okay with that!

Re: Google, I have that and I even have it set to allow pop-ups for this site, but I'm not getting any? Go figure...

Re: Age, I hate to sound like a cliche, but age for me is all about attitude. I'm 41.5, I still like punk rock, hate W and secretly enjoy my children's fart noise contests. I just love the way they laugh when they do that, it's such a wonderful sound!

Anyway, I'm not getting any younger, but I feel better about myself every year and when I try looking at the world through my children's eyes, I still feel that sense of wonder and amazement at the universe! Or maybe I'm just way too in touch with my inner child! ;)

Geez, that was a long comment, sorry to hijack your blog, T! But I have to add that when I posted, I got one pop up. Not too bad though.

Also, LOVING THE CLOCK! That's so cool, thanks for adding it!

Hmm. The other day, someone asked me what I "do." Of course, I felt like saying, I take lots of pills in anticipation of shooting myself up, inspect my cervical fluid frequently and help my husband jack off into a little plastic cup.

Instead, I said, "well right now, I'm not working in anticipation of our fertility procedures." Because, I quit my job right before I found out we'd have to be going through IVF (who says timing is everything?!). And who is going to hire someone who needs to be at the clinic's beck and call ("yes, I know I was gone for 3 hours yesterday, but I need to be late today, too") all so I can hopefully leave your company for many, many months while on maternity leave. Which, of course means, if I come back, you probably think I'll be taking time off all the time to take care of my kids. Which means, even if you DO hire me, you're not going to have a lot of faith in my commitment, anyway.

The interesting thing is, I felt REALLY self-conscious and unworthy saying I was "just" a homemaker. So I can kinda feel for the stupid nit that said the moronic comment to T & FWD. I think Wessel may have hit the nail on the head.

I really, really hope to be able to stay home if, please G-d, our IVF is successful. I really, really hope I remember conversations like this and make sure I don't say stupid nit things.

Oh man, i overheard an insane comment about being a SAHM yesterday at the park. This woman was telling her friend that she made her husband promise her before she would marry him that she would "Never have to leave her babies with a daycare or a babysitter. Ever" and that later, when he was dying, she told Satan "You can't destroy my family and take my children by making me go back to work".
I just sat there thinking- "Wow, I've never heard someone refer to working outside the home as Satan's work". And then I thought her children were probably going to grow up to be serial killers.

Man!! You know, I TRULY don't care about your (whoever is reading this) very personal decision whether to work or not, but for me...Call it PARANOIA!! I did divorce law for many years. I saw women getting dumped after gaining a few pounds and having to try to find a job without a college degree and no recent experience and living in the hell of poverty.

There is nothing that would EVER make me depend on a man to support me after that!!

*No I know that would never happen to you, gentle reader
*No I do not imply that all men are like that, my man is a dream, but I have seen women sobbing that they never ever expected this too many times

awww your little buggers are soooo damn cute.

I'm not usually a poster, just a reader and lurker, but thought I'd add my bit to this...

"My children are worth it" What exactly does that mean? "I am such a stellar unbelievable person and my children are privileged to spend so much time with me, learn from me, soaking in my light and essence--no one else has anything to offer that could even compare to me." Get over yourself.

Plus, I've always wondered, are people who take this stance also saying that they are raising their daughters to raise more children, rather than to be scientists, physicians, landscapers, teachers, or law makers? Are you teaching the belief that your children can EITHER have a family OR have a career, but not both?

I'm a newbie. What is G&D?

Gorgeous and divine, dahhhhling.

I find that women that take that 'tude, on either side of the argument, there's a lot more to the [rude] comment than meets the eye - there's insecurity b/c dh is a loser who's never worked, or fear b/c she's never had a job or seomthing. One of dh's friend's wives takes that attitude b/c she is so insecure that dh spends 8+ hours a day w/ largely single attractive women. She builds herself up at any opp by dissing working moms.

So I'd consider the source and forget it.

Since I wasn't there, I can't truly form an opinion. I too work, and I enjoy the time away to be honest. I do beleive one could go insane spending 24/7 with their children(I almost went insane having my parents home all the time). I think that saying "My children are worth it" To me says "It is worth it to me to stay home and have less money" which is most definitely a personal choice. I prefer spending a bit of time away and having more money, than staying home broke having to cook and clean all day. Totally commend the women who have the patience to be 24/7 moms/housekeepers, I certainly do not, and I'd seriously get fired if I were the housekeeper, I don't do so well with that one.

You know, it's just hard being a woman sometimes. There are never enough bathrooms, and it's always a competition about something. I am lucky enough to have the choice to stay at home. I don't feel that there's a thing wrong with moms working. That might be my choice in a year or two.

But some of my SAHM friends speak in hushed tones about moms who work, how much they're missing, how good it would be for their kids if they were home. I really feel like so many moms need to justify their situation, and many do it by tearing down others. I wish people could just be supportive of others instead of feeling it's a zero sum game.

My Kennedy (5.5 months) can be very loud too! She yells when she talks!

By the way, I think that Adam looks a lot like Marko. I think the babies look very different from eachother, yet they look similar enough that you can tell they are brother and sister.

You're doing a good job. The snide comment is her problem and her issue. Don't waste your time worrying about it.

I'm with you - to me work is not staying home with my children- it is what I do and get paid for. Staying home is when I am at home.

The "chatting" sounds so cute - may we expect sound files to appear on the site now? Please?

Wow.. her kids are worth staying home with and 'sadly' yours aren't. Bad Tertia, bad! ;)) Yours being so darned cute and all too..

Happy Mom = Happy Babies, and damn it if I don't wish I hadn't gone to back work sooner.

BTW I agree with Sherry. Go with (free) Firefox for NO POPUPS and faster surfing!

I think the babes look more alike in the recent pictures. Plus, they are making the exact same expressions in some of the pictures! How cool is that? :) Love the new poll.

First on the pop-ups. Use firefox, it blocks everything. I don't get pop-up when I come here or any other blogs.
Second on the woman's commend, I agree she made it due to her own insecurity. Intentionaly or not, still rude. Just because she might have got "bashed" by someone else, didn't give her the right to do it to someone. Especailly if she has been on the receiving end of those commends, she should have been more sensitive, isntead of dishing it out to someone else.

loving ur blog lately... even more than usual!

I'd just like to say that I too can say "bloody hell" without sounding like a dick!

Welcome to one of the little known facts about motherhood. It's a lose/lose situation. Stay at home with your children and you're sponging off your partner. Go to work and you're depriving your children of their mother. Stay at home and you do nothing but sit on your bum all day and watch soap operas. Go to work and wonder why it was you bothered having children...btw, I'm quoting, not saying this myself.
Stay home and let the bills mount up, accept second class health care and second class education for your children or go to work and go mental trying to be a wife AND a mother AND a homemaker AND an employee and somewhere in that be a person as well.
Like I said, it's a lose/lose situation.
I've just hit a compromise...working three days instead of full time, and being solely a mum on the remaining four. With any luck my hair will stop falling out, my kids mother will start smiling again and my husband will get his wife back. With any luck.
Ignore Ms. Worth It...wasting time on people like her is a waste. I'd like to see her the day that she has to eat her words and trust me, the day will come.

When I was getting ready to go back to work (reluctantly) after my second child my neighbour told me she would rather chew off her own arm than leave her children to go back to work. I felt wonderful!

I have been told I could afford to stay at home if we bought a smaller house, older cars, if I cleaned the house myself etc. I always answer that we live off my husband's wage and are saving mine to buy a holiday home! Complete lie of course but I love to see their jaws dropping!

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