Husbands and helping or Paul vs Marko.

I’ve been meaning to write this post for a while, but it’s not an easy post to write.  Because I don’t want people to judge my husband or I.  I love my husband, he might not be perfect, but he is perfect for me.

So things haven’t turned out exactly as I hoped it might.  Many of you have made comments like ‘where is your husband??’ or ‘what is your husband doing in all of this?’  And I’ve been ignoring them on purpose.

I must admit, I am jealous of Julie, not because she is better looking than me (she isn’t), or because she is more intelligent than me (she isn’t), or even that Charlie is stronger / bigger / faster than Adam (he isn’t).  No I am jealous of Julie because of Paul.  The lucky asshole (that would be Julie) has one of those husbands who are totally involved in the day-to-day care of their child.  He feeds Charlie, he watches him, he even does a shift at night for goodness sake.  I don’t have one of those husbands.  Julie, the lucky tart, has one of those.  And by the sounds of things, a super dooper one at that.  In fact I don’t know what the hell Julie does all day except sit on her lazy fat ass and post nude pictures of her Lionel Richie ‘fro to the “Hairy Beaver” porn site.

My darling husband, whom I love dearly, is just not good with newborns.  Now before you all get up in arms and tell me what a useless fucker he is, let me say that I am ok with this.  Not every one can be good at every thing.  Why force him to do something that makes me him all anxious.  He just can’t handle crying babies, it upsets him. 

Now I can just see you sitting there spluttering in outrage.  “I don’t care if it makes him anxious, he HAS to help” you’ll be saying.  “They are his kids too” will be another.

I know all of these arguments.  I could be saying them too, but I don’t.  Because I know that his time will come, I know that without doubt.  He loves his kids, very much. When they are a bit sturdier he will be more involved.  He will spend lots of time with them then. 

He helps me in many other ways, he makes the bottles, he fills and fetches the bath, he cleans up the babies room afterwards, he will make me a sandwich, go to the shop for me etc.  He will even change a nappy or do a feed for me if I need him too, but he is just not good with them when they are yelling. 

And yes, sometimes I do wish I had one of those new age sensitive types who rubbed my belly when I was pg (he never did), who spoke to the unborn babies through the womb (are you crazy?? Him??).  That he would say to me “I’ll do a night shift for you”.  But that would be I would have to change him, and I don’t want to.  I love him just the way he is, I don’t want to upset the balance and get another version, I like the husband I have.

I don’t know if it is a South African male thing, but my father and his father were like that too.  I have never doubted my father loved me, I have never felt any negative effects of having a father who was not involved in my care as a newborn.  He was so involved with me as a child.  I am not surprised or disappointed, it is what I am used to.  It is just the way it is.  It doesn’t mean he loves them less.  And I suppose because I have Rose, I am ok with the situation.  I do have help.  I know if I absolutely needed him to do any thing he would, but I am not going to force him to do things that make him anxious. 

The only thing I worry about is that he is missing out on this time, but he assures me that he is ok, that his time will come.  And I really do believe him.

So that is where Marko is (zzzzz) when I say I am rocking a baby at 3 in the morning.  That is why I say I have to steal a quick five minutes to shower.  Because I do the crying baby shifts in our house.

The reason I didn’t want to post this is because I don’t want any one to think any thing horrible about my husband, he is a wonderful husband and a wonderful father.  This is how OUR family works. But I did want to post this in case there are others out there who face a similar situation, so that they needn’t feel alone.

Every one has their strengths and weaknesses, and that is ok.  We can’t all be good at every thing.  Remember, my husband might not be perfect, but he is perfect for ME.  I love him just the way he is.  Well except for the rich thing, I would like him to be richer.  That would be nice.  Maybe that small little change request could be slipped through.

So, do you have a Paul or a Marko?

Comments

[Addie]

I have a cross between a Paul and a Marko - he happily does some of everything, with the issue being that he usually needs to be asked to do so (i.e., the laundry piles are sitting in the middle of the floor for the fifth day in a row, or our baby is starting to cry in the bedroom and I am in the bathroom, and I have to say "can you get the baby?" or "could you put away laundry?"). He is always (or, almost always) happy to do so, and he too does countless other things around our house that I would never do, and I wouldn't change him for the world...but I'd be lying if I didn't say that occasionally I wished I didn't have to ask...I mean really, does he not see the laundry that he's stepping over every morning?

[chris]

I have a Marko.
But, he is AWESOME with older children. He made a coffee cake for breakfast this morning for the children because they asked him to, he is planning what he is going to cook for dinner tonight because he is going to let them eat in the tv room with a video, and is chasing our almost 2 yr old around the kitchen table playing some sort of game.
But I can count on one hand the number of diapers he has changed, and I don't need any hands to count the number of baby baths he has done ;-)

[Leah]

I had a Marko...for the first six or so months. But, now that our son is eleven months old, he is becoming more and more involved.

[Anna]

wow, I am the first to comment today!

As you are honest, I will be too. I don't have a Marko. I think I don't have a Paul either. I have a husband that is our kids' second mum (or even first).

He dresses, does nappies, bathes, cleans throw-ups, whipes butts, reads stories, brings to school, talks to teachers, gives medicine (am I forgetting something? just add it to the list). Besides that, he cooks, cleans the house, does laundry, irons, does all the grocery-shopping and washes the dishes. And gets up in the night for whatever reason, recently mainly to get our 15 month old out of her bed into ours, so I just pull up my t-shirt and she can nurse.

I go to work (full time), and come back again. And so does he, only at another time of day (in the evenings).

This is the way OUR family works, and I am fine with that (ofcourse) and fortunatly, he is too. I only hope he continues to like it this way, same as I hope you're staying happy the way your family works.

You know what, it doesn't matter who does what. As long as you both agree on it.

Love your most recent posts BTW, they sound more like YOU :).

[anna]

Blah, obviously missed my chance at being first :P

[Lisa V]

I have a Paul. In reality, he probably started out a Marko, but I beat the shit out of him, and turned him into Paul Plus.
He does everything I do, he just needs direction. Now don't try this at home, unless you are a domineering bitch like me.
My assvice, find something he loves about the babies that is required for a few minutes a day. It will help him feel close, bond and give him memories. My dad used to rock a sleeping baby, or at least quiet baby and read to them.

[angie]

I have a Paul plus...my husband works nights (11-7 or 12-8) and keeps the kids during the day while I am at work. don't ask me when he sleeps. I'm beginning to think he doesn't sleep at all. He bathes, feeds, dresses etc etc etc...also, he is the family cook (I can barely boil water)and he cleans like crazy. So, yes, I am totally spoiled. I feel guilty about it all the time, but, its just the way we work. One day, your Marko will be the most involved dad...and then maybe you can get a nap! :)

[Amber]

A Paul for me. Thank goodness.

But v glad to hear that your Marko works just perfect for you.

[JanineR]

Quoting Lisa "I have a Paul. In reality, he probably started out a Marko, but I beat the shit out of him, and turned him into Paul Plus.
He does everything I do, he just needs direction. Now don't try this at home, unless you are a domineering bitch like me."

Me too.

And there is no probably about it on my side. If I wanted to do it alone, I would've done it long before I met him.

[JenL]

I have a Paul/Marko combo, with the added complication of adult ADD.

Now, he's a loving and involved father, but he doesn't handle mystery crying v. well. Gets v. tense and frustrated quickly. And, unless I ask him (or tell him, or bark out orders at him, depending on the hormone levels) he just doesn't realize what needs to be done in some situations.

When we got married, he adapted v. well to fathering my older children, so I trust he'll grow into this role.

[Carmen]

OMG. Marko sounds just like my hubby. We have six kids, and I can count on one hand, with fingers left over, the number of diapers that he has changed. Of course, I was obstinant enough to use cloth, so what do I expect, eh?

He has never given a bath, I don't think. He is great with older kids, though - he plays like a champ with them. He sucks at doing the grunt work - but, that's what I'm here for.

Give it time, Tertia. I think little babies scare the shit out of the men sometimes. Men like to be able to do something, to be proactive, to fix whatever is wrong, and with an infant there is little that they can do. Also, there isn't any talk going on. Screaming, you better believe it.

Most of the screaming is from me, though. :)

[wendnoel]

OH yes,
I have a Marko whose name is Brian. And he is funny, witty, and lovable. He didn't do babies well. Never did a midnight feed, never wakes with them when they are ill. Doesn't change their clothes or bathe them, or do anything tedious. But now that my oldest is 5 - he is taking him to games, throwing balls with him, teaching him to ride a bike - fatherly things. It's o.k., I love him anyways.

[Mollie]

For the first, I had a wanna-be "Paul" but I was such a control freak, I tried to "Marko"-ize him because I didn't want him to do anything unless it was my way.

For the second, I gladly accepted all his contributions and they are many and varied. He loves the whole baby scene, and is an amazingly involved dad to our nuclear-powered 4-year-old son, too. Plus housework.

But know this: the sex? It's terrible. I've tried a couple of times to fix it, but no dice. What I lack in sexual chemistry and gratification, though, I make up for in vacuuming and child care.

[Brenda]

I had a cross between a Paul and a Marko. In the first couple of weeks he was a great help, he had one baby and I had one. A couple weeks after he went back to work he was of no help at all with the babies. But like you mentioned he helped tons in other areas. Making bottles every night, cleaning, buying groceries etc. I think he just started feeling like "he wasn't doing it right" as I was around the babies all day and knew what tricks to use to soothe them. I have to admit I might have been on his back a little telling him how to do things too as I hated hearing them cry!
Now at 2 years old he is amazing with them. I don't think the majority of men are "baby people" and I accepted that. Once they were able to actually do things he really started coming around. I think he just felt inadequate when he could never figure out what they wanted.

[Ally]

Mine is mostly a Paul, although sometimes his Marko alter-ego slips through. I'm pretty happy with how we work together though, and that's all that's important. You're right, every family has to find the system that works for them.

[Moxie]

I have a Paul. Who actually loved cloth diapers (he thought they were easier than disposibles). At the beginning we had a little trouble figuring out who was going to do what, but then we just started doing both (breastfeeding was me, though, and most diaper changes were him to balance out the nursing). Now that we have a preschooler, he does the majority of kidstuff when he's home, because all my son wants to do is wrestle and run around like a hooligan.

I don't think it sounds like Marko isn't involved. All the stuff he does--making bottles, cleaning the rooms, etc.-- is his way of helping. You need that support, too. Plenty of women have to do all that crap in addition to being the only ones who comfort crying babies.

[Lori]

Mine is totally a Paul. He does EVERYTHING w/the kids, and even happily agreed with me after years of the insanity that I call children, he wanted more (quite possibly a sadist...LOL!). He was the one keeping me positive through every chemical pg., and m/c, and PCOS...etc. and is now so great about keeping up w/all of my prenatal appts. and stuff. I wouldn't have it any other way!

If Marko is a perfect fit for you, then keep on truckin! You have to find a fit for you, b/c you know what Marko's good sides are, and they are great for you.

[kim]

My husband was very frustrated at first as I was, but he kept trying. Sometimes you need a break. He could try because he is missing it. Yes, it gets better, but what about now?

I know it is easier to just do it yourself. I do not doubt that he loves them richly. Soon, he will be perfect for the babies too.

[Nicole]

I have a Marko. However, my Marko is also the one to work long days to bring home the small amt of $$ teachers make so I can be a SAHM.

Dont' get me wrong, but he does do some work, just not as much as I'd sometimes like. Sometimes I have to ask him to do something, rather than him catch on that something needs to be done and do it.

Nicole

[Amy]

I'm pretty sure I have a Paul....but I'm talking out of my ass becuase we don't have any kids yet. He was great with our godson though, even when he was tiny so I'm hopeful.

But I would imagine that just about all of us had a Marko for a father. I think the whole men being expected to step up to the plate to help with a newborn thing is relatively new. I am sure as they get a little older and more animated he will find his place with them very easily. My dad always said he liked us better when we could reason a little. He wasn't so into the "cute crying lump" phase (his words). Anyway, he is the best dad in the world and there is no way I could possibly love him any more.

Of course the important thing is that you are okay with it. Fuck all what everyone else thinks.

[wix]

i've got a paul. he would be both mommy and daddy to CX if he could, i think. he is a much more sound sleeper than i am, though, so most of the time when CX (9.5 mos) cries overnight, i am the one to wake up.

NC actually works part-time and i work full-time, so he and CX spend most of their days together. i've sorted it so that i'm out of the house as little as possible, working 7-3 (they typically sleep until 9).

i agree with moxie--i don't think it sounds like marko is being no help at all. it sounds like marko is very aware of what his strengths and limitations are. forcing anyone outside of those boundaries for too long of a time is usually a recipe for disaster. if y'all have struck a balance, none among us have any room to be anything other than happy for you.

[Liz]

I have a Paul, and am thankful.

However, I'm thrilled that you have a Marko - because if you didn't? You wouldn't have a Kate or an Adam, and that would be a terrible thing.

[DMouse]

I will have a Marko, no doubt about it. But that is ok. He is good at other stuff.

I have to say, all the S Africans I know here (I work in London, UK) with children are all Marko's too. They claim it is cultural.

[Laura]

I second Addie's comment above: my husband is a Paul/Marko cross (a Parko? a Maul?). No kids here, but same story. He'll do anything I ask, but I have to ask. Every. Time. It's been a great learning experience for me, because I am a knee-jerk people-pleaser who doesn't like to ask for things for myself. But he could care less for the intrinsic delight of a clean living space, so if I want help I've had to learn to say "Could you please take out the trash because it's important to me!" (not literally, but you get the idea)

[Rhonda]

You are v. v. smart to accept Marko's strengths and weaknesses. He sounds like a fantastic help in his own way.

My daughter is almost 5 at this point, but if I remember correctly my husband was a ...Parko. Crying babies upset him, but fortunately/unfortunately ours would stop crying if held (I say 'un' because it meant she always had to be held for those first few months), and given that he was great about holding her so I could have my hands free. and then she would get hungry (we demand-fed)...and then it would be my turn.

His big waterloo? He didn't/doesn't do well with sleep deprivation. At the time I didn't understand why he did so extremely poorly with even the slightest sleep deprivation, but then we found out that he has sleep apnea (obstructive *and* central, it now looks like), so even with 8+ hours of sleep he wasn't getting proper rest. Add a baby to the mix, and he was wrecked.

...I remember the time our baby and I both had nasty colds (so much crying and little sleep the night before), and he was being his wonderful supportive self and picking up Thai takeout on the way home from work...and I guess he had a little microsleep while pulling into our driveway, because he crashed into the garage door! (He and the car weren't hurt, but the door was sort of totalled, though not in a way the average observer could tell from outside. We wanted a new one anyway, though, so it was OK.)

[blackbird]

Aha! am I the only one (she says fearing she is much older than the rest of you)who had a Paul who aged into a Marko? My K started out a Paul -- actually he started out a John Lennon as he worked freelance and spent every waking moment with our first. I trudged back to work and he lovingly tended his boy. Second baby did not arrive for six more years and our lives had changed--a lot. He wanted to do a lot for this baby but, frankly, he was busy. I thought we were done with babies/children when he announced 4 years later that he wished for another. And by the time Youngest arrived -- he was Marko. Marko all over. When I needed more help (as he was traveling to Cape Town) he hired it. I suppose he filled in here and there with Youngest, but I distinctly remember him being annoyed by his crying and soothing him whilst holding his cell phone on the opposite side of his head.
I like him both ways tho...so in that I am wealthy.

[Kris]

I think, from remembering how he was with his daughter when we were first dating, that I have a mostly Paul.

He'll be gone most of the time, so I think he'll be a little obsessed when the baby is born, and he'll be trying to do everything for the baby when he's home.

He already does all the housework, the laundry, etc, though I've had to start doing that since he's been gone.

No matter what, I think your's mine, and hers all all wonderful daddies.

Well, I'll see about mine in May, but I got to watch the test drive with his daughter.

[ellen]

I have a Paul AND a Marko...he was great with the kids when they were babies...much more comfortable with the screaming than I am. Much more relaxed. But when I was pg, he wanted no part of in utero bonding...he said it made him "nervous".

I think many men don't get into the whole baby thing till they get a little something in return...a smile, a coo, etc. If you are ok, that is all that matters! Besides a lot of men won't even make bottles or change nappies (love that word).

[Lisa]

I absolutely have a Marko, and I'm just like you with my passionate defense of him. He's a great guy, absolutely stellar in so many areas, but kids seriously freak him out. We don't have any yet but seeing him hold babies is hilarious, he literally holds them under their arms with two hands as far away from his body as possible, all with a look of abject terror on his face. It will be interesting to see what happens when we DO have children. But don't feel like you're alone!

[Sarah]

I have a Paul but I was expecting him to be a Marko. He was never around babies while growing up. But right there in the delivery room he snatched up our son figured it out. I was raised by a Marko so I know it can work but I'm so glad that our kids have Paul!

[Malone]

Wow - you really do read your comments. Thanks for the entry. I have a Marko - as you know. I hoped he would become more Paul-like after the birth - but I knew deep down he would not. I have, now that my daughter is 5 weeks, accepted that I am the parent now. He will be great later - I have accepted it. In addition to ages 2-4, after I left him w/Kate to go to the grocery, he also agreed to do puberty.

I may win in the end!

[Audrey]

I'm so glad someone finally brought up the Paul vs. Marko debate! My wonderful, too-good-to-be-true hubby was definitely a Marko at first. To his credit, he really tried with our baby, but the crying was just too much. There was one night in particular that he was christened a Marko. I was finally trying to get some sleep and he was on Daddy Duty, but baby kept crying, and crying, and crying. But then, in my hazy half-sleep, I heard him exclaim, "Shut up, punk. You're crying like a little bitch." Now honestly, before anyone judges, you should know that there are certain things said in the wake of a new baby, things that usually cannot be remembered later on. I was MUCH more amused by this than I was mad. I just got up and went back on Mommy Duty. And then, a few months later, my Marko metamorphosed into a Paul. He still doesn't remember saying those things. I don't think I'll tell our son.

[Alana]

I have a Parko.

[katie]

I was very, very worried when I first gave birth. My husband slept right through the sounds of baby cries and even ignored looks (pleas) for help. Not much changed for about a year. When that child began to speak, I lost her. I lost her to her father. They are buds. If she is out of control, I look at him, and he handles it. Only he has the power to reason with this child. Every dad is different. My dad was affectionate but very self involved. I still love him for all he is. In this day and age fathers are expected to do alot more than they used to. Some of them just want the old contract back. You know, a cigar, a sit in the waiting room, no diapers, no baths, etc....

Thanks for pointing this out to others, and don't feel bad for the Pauls out there. I bet they are terrible in bed!

[Trish]

I have a Paul, but I think he was forced into being that way...

His first wife was a piece of crap (hey! she still is!) and didn't take care of their son (hey! she still doesn't!) so my hubby had to dive on in and do it. I mean- SOMEONE has to feed the baby. SOMEONE has to take care of the baby. So he learned he had to sink or swim and he chose to swim.

But to each their own, sunshine :) Marko is perfect for you and my hubby is perfect for me!

[Dana]

I have a Paul. Actually, I have a better-than-Paul, because he's MINE. He does everything I do for our baby girl (with the exception of lactating - he has to actually make a bottle instead of just whipping out a boob, but he'd do that if he could, I've no doubt) AND did the same when our three year old son was a baby. He has never had a period where he needed to warm up to the situation - he has always thought, as I have, that each parent is 50% of the whole and should do 50% of the work. He takes both kids so I can nap, he bathes our son, he does ALL the cooking, half the cleaning, puts laundry away (I wash it, we both fold it), he cleans our son's room, he plays with our son, he rocks our daughter, and he still finds time to run to the store or to rub my shoulders. Plus, he often REFUSES my offers to take time for himself, saying that would be selfish.

In fact, just now reading this blog, he was pretty disgusted that the Markos of the world exist. He said "I don't care if you don't like crying babies - grow up and be an adult."

Yup, I've got one of those. Yay for me!

[Carol]

I have a Paul, both figuratively and literally. My husband, Paul, is one of those dads who trades off nights with me so I can get a good night's sleep while he deals with children who don't yet understand that when the sun is down, they should be too. When he comes home from work every weekday, he takes the kids 50 percent of the time (not by the stopwatch but by estimation) until their bedtime. He watches them on weekends as much as I do. He feels that my day is at least as hard as his, even though he's the one bringing home the bacon.

And the weird thing is that I feel TOTALLY GUILTY about it, because no one else I know who is a stay-at-home mom has a husband who does this. I wonder if I'm getting off too easy or have it too cushy. I've spent a lot of time feeling guilty about this, not because I think it's unfair in principle, but because there is some nagging voice inside my head that says that other women can handle all the home responsibilites, so why can't I? I don't *think* that I'm spoiled, but I *feel* that I am.

Is it fair for a stay-at-home mom to take the night shift every night, and to take the kids more during the day? I don't think so, but I'm not really sure.

[Stefanie]

You're so NOT alone. I have a Marko - but his name is Tim. I don't know if it's because I just didn't trust him to do things they way I wanted him too, or if his mamma raised him to be lazy. But he slept through the nights shifts. I layed my colicy, screaming, redfaced daughter right by Tim's head one night - and he didn't flinch.

Actually, I really don't have a Marko b/c I don't think my dh ever fixed a bottle. He did changed a few diapers (a very few, but a few).

But I wouldn't changed a thing either - except maybe he could have done more diapers to compensate!

[Rebecca]

Tertia... don't worry about what people think. You love your husband, and you know he loves you and your beautiful children. You love what you have and it works for you guys. That's all that really matters.

Most people pass judgement based on their own insecurity anyway.

Embrace what you have, cherish it and know that the happiness of your family is all that really matters.

[Lily]

Wait--- he gets you sandwiches? your husband is awesome!!!!

My Dad was at the start of a five year surgical residency (read: LIVING at the hospital) when I was born.

I love my Dad. We have a great relationship. It doesn't matter to me in the least that I probably spent a total of three or four waking hours per week with him throughout most of my infancy.

He'll catch up later. Most people have a preference for a certain phase- babies, toddlers, older kids, and yes even teenagers. During one of those periods, I'm sure he'll step right in and love it.

I don't expect my husband to wake up in the middle of the night when our baby is born- ever. I doubt it will happen more than a handful of times, and I'm ok with that, because I know he works very hard, he loves me, and he will be there for us forever.

[Kate]

I have a Marko. Once my kiddo was able to do more than lay there and cry, did hubby start getting more involved. Now that kiddo is 4, and well able to play and interact with dad, the 2 are inseperable. The only regret I have is that kiddo won't go to bed for dad (and its the only thing he won't do), because I have -always- been the one to put him down.

[karla]

My husband is the same way, and that is fine with me. If I really need him to help he is right there, but mostly he just plays fetch (warms bottles, brings mommy drinks, and takes care of the older one) Also the fact that whenever he tries, I hover over his shoulder so much, it rattles him. He was the same way with the first, but when he turned 2 or 3 daddy pretty much took over and I like it just fine. When Christian is old enough that dad isn't afraid of breaking him, he, like big brother Russ will be following dad everywhere he goes. It works just fine for us. Don't compare Marko to anyone but Marko.My opinion is that the best thing a daddy can do is keep a mommy happy. There is a saying in the south. "If mama ain't happy ain't nobody happy." and it sounds like you are pretty happy to me! Marko sounds like a keeper!

[Nicole]

My husband's brother is a Paul-he feeds, bathes, rocks, trims nails, puts to bed, you name it, he does it - joyfully. So I was kind of thinking that I would also have a Paul.

After our first was born, I quickly discovered I had a Marko. Once I got over the initial surprise, I discovered that I'm fine with it for the most part. Occassionally I fall into feeling like a martyr, but I've made a habit of keeping a mental tally of ALL that he DOES do for the family (which in truth is a very lengthy list - lots of things I would never think of like changing the furnace filter.) And for whatever interest he lacked in the baby stage, he has more than made up for in later years. He is their playmates now, they sit around and dream up imaginative stories, or rough-house, or can't wait to go to the hardware store with daddy and help him fix whatever. And he's great with them on that level. He still, doesn't keep track with the mundane daily tasks, like bathing, vitamins, toothbrushing, school, bedtime, etc., but that's ok because he is so important in other areas. Plus, to be honest, I'm just not that into the imaginative play that the kids like, and he is. So in a way, our strengths and weaknesses sort of complement each other.

[Brandy]

I have a Paul when it comes to the kids. Now he does not do the clothes, wash dishes, cook, put toys up or wash bottles. But he spends every minute he can with the kids when he is not working. he does not do anything with his friends on the weekends, but no house work either. He helps at night on the weekend when he is not working. He is a great dad. I am sure anyone who has a Marko will do more when the kids get older. My paul happens to like the baby stage, but I know many of men who don't.

[Nicole]

Ooooh, one more thought to add about my Marko-style husband. Probably the thing that makes the most difference to me is that I know how much my husband is aware of and appreciates all that I do. It is no secret amongst family & friends that I do the lion's share of work regarding the kids. In fact, he makes a point to tell others (when I'm in earshot) what an amazing job I do and that the family and house would fall to pieces if I wasn't in charge. For me, it's nice to hear that.

Plus, now that the kids are bigger for Christmas he gives me a coupon for me to use to take a 4-6 day vacation with my girlfriends, sans the kids. When I returned last spring from "mommy's vacation", he'd even cleaned the house - wow!!!!

[Jessica]

I'm pretty sure I have a Marko (no kids yet). I was also raised by a Marko (seriously freaked out by infants/small children, great with older ones). I turned out ok. :)

[Julie]

"Don't feel bad for the Pauls out there. I bet they are terrible in bed!"

"He was pretty disgusted that the Markos of the world exist."

NICE.

[Christine K]

I have a wanna-be Marko who was gradually forced into a semi-Paul. I think the majority of men are totally freaked out by newborns. They didn't have the physical connection to these kids that moms who carried them had. It's like this totally helpless, wrinkly, weird looking creature is handed to them and they have NO IDEA what on earth to do. Add to that, new moms somehow figure it out quicker (in general), so we look like pros and they happily back out of the fray.

Mine still talks about the horror of the first two months and will openly admit that he didn't really start liking our son until he "started doing stuff". And at nearly 3, they are best buddies. I've left the two of them alone for the weekend several times (sometimes for work and sometimes to visit out of state friends) and they do beautifully.

I remember those early days though when the baby would cry and we'd both lie there pretending not to hear, hoping the other one would eventually get up and take care of things. If I had just nursed him fifteen minutes earlier, my phenomenal stubborn streak would come out and by golly he was getting up and helping. Considering how Marko-ish he really wanted to be, I'm pretty impressed with how much help I've gotten out of him in the early days!

Sounds like you're handling things fine the way they are. I worry about when you have to go back to work though. That was when things got very ugly at our house.

[Lila]

I have a super-Paul. My husband was a perfect uncle before we had kids, so one of the reasons I fell in love with him was his ability to take babies seriously. He was great with them when they were tiny and is still great now that the oldest is taller than him!

I still melt when I see him picking up babies he likes - he is simply a perfect baby-loving man. The best proof: it makes no difference whether I or my husband take the children to the doctor.

BTW, here in Israel many fathers are Pauls. Israelis, especially kibbutzniks, are very warm, involved fathers. One of the first sights that caught my heart when I came here was seeing fathers with babies over their shoulders having baby-terminology talk in front of the kibbutz shop.

It's a culture thing, too. And if your Marko is a loving husband and supports you the way that's okay for you and him - where is the problem? As you said, nobody is fit for every function in life. And why force him into a job that makes him nervous if you don't have to?

BTW: my husband says the whole pg thing made him nervous, too, especially with the first. It's difficult for them, poor things. I never expected him to feel what I feel - that's impossible. But as soon as birth was under way he became a highly involved super abba.

I guess there are women who hate this whole baby mess, too. But our culture does not tolerate it at all. I wonder how they get along when they have babies - where they get support from.

[Yatima]

I have a Paul but I AM a Marko. Crying babies wig me, and much as I adore my kid, I really like leaving her with the nanny and going to work. Yes indeedy, I am the world's worst mother :-)

[Heather]

My daughter is now 4 years old, but when she was a newborn, he was a Marko. It wasn't that he didn't like screaming babies. He just doesn't wake up to anything in the middle of the night. Even now, when Phoebe wakes up in the wee hours she comes to me in the middle of the night. Tom maybe got to change a few diapers, liked to help bathe her (she loved baths), maybe a bottle once or twice (I nursed her for 7 months, so bottles were at day care or when I went to get my hair done). But he has had his moments when she got older. He had to carry her in a reverse cradle hold every night from three months until about 6 months while I made dinner, because she would get cranky and only liked his big arms on her little belly. My skinny arms just didn't cut it. She is also now a daddy's girl and he is a big softie when it comes to most things she wants.

And yes, I agree whatever works for your family is right for you guys. That goes along with work or not work, nanny or day care or no help at all. Whatever it takes to get your family through the days happy and healthy.

[Greta]

OK - think of it this way....how long are they infants??? How long are they NOT infants? I've been anxiously waiting all weekend for those gorgeous family pictures you promised from the wedding!!

[Cris]

I have a "Paul" now, with our second child, but with our first I had a "Marko". Though my DH is a "Marko" during my pg. He wouldn't be caught DEAD talking to my pregnant belly...nor was he into rubbing it.

[Stacey]

I have neither, and it's the best. :D

Just don't forget to ask for help, or it will start to bug you, and eventually you'll turn into the anxious one. ;)

[LPF]

Well, first off, good for you for knowing what makes you happy. Every marriage is different and you would probably drive Julie's Paul up a tree and she would send Marko screaming in a matter of hours. Now, if you and Julie ever decided to switch sides, I'm sure it would be sweet, sweet love. ;) Sorry, just amusing myself over here.

Anyway... I have a Maul (that just sounds wrong). He is very involved with Miss Pink's care and in fact when we were first home from the hospital he did far more for her than I did. He handles bath time by himself—I just come in at the end as towel girl—and regularly puts her down for the night. He makes formula and feeds her probably at least once a day.

BUT, it is on his timetable. He works very hard—which allows me to stay home and freelance—so I try and be sensitive to his deadlines, but it drives me crazy that he will make blanket statements like "I have a ton to get done this weekend, so I can't help out much." because it's not like I don't have shit to do! And in terms of other things around the house, other than emptying the garbage and the dishwasher, that's pretty much left to me. Of course, again, I'm not working full-time, so it does balance out.

And the crying thing has definitely changed over time. When she was first born he would lose his patience with her crying long, long before I ever did. At four months, she rarely has massive crying jags, so it doesn't come up.

And, Julie, if you read this, I'm sure Paul is scorching hot in bed!

[Peggy]

A Marko here too. He came around when they got older. But they still wanted Mommy for comfort

[Rachelle]

I have a Marko, but my Marko might do less than yours, because mine doesn't work, but doesn't do much to help, either. He pretends to help - i.e. looks after the baby while I go out to do an errand. Only then I get a phone call within the hour saying, "Help, I don't know what to do." Or, he'll say he'll put him to sleep, but then say after 5 mins, "I think he needs his mummy."

He is actually good at getting our son to sleep. But he clearly has more energy than me because when I am dead to the world at the end of the day, he goes to visit his friends. I am maybe not as okay with this as you are. I expected him to be a good house-husband, so this has been quite a letdown. On the other hand, he is very loving and affectionate towards his son, and I loooove seeing that. And, he gets better and better as our son gets older, but he is still pretty hopeless and doing things on his own, totally alone. He keeps saying he wants to do more, but I don't believe him.

[Becki]

Mine's pretty much a Paul. He is a great dad, although when our son was a newborn he would burst into tears whenever my husband laughed or sneezed. My husband thought the kid hated him.

Don't worry about us judging Marko. You love him, we love you, therefore we love him.

And beware of this phenomenon, in about a year or so, after you've changed millions of dirty diapers and done hundreds of night shifts: Marko will walk in the room and Adam and Kate will beam and exult like the sun is rising for the first time; you'll walk in the room and they'll be like, "Oh, the chambermaid is here again."

[Robyn]

I would have to say I have a Marko, but when I nag him enough, he becomes a Paul temporarily, for a few hours maybe.

I don't like nagging too much however.

I do believe once my baby is older, he will turn into a Paul, or maybe its just wishful thinking.

[Katie]

I have a Marko. Which is great in its own way. There are things with bub that he does great, perfect even but somethings he runs straight to me with (like when the baby keeps screaming until she is red in the face its find mummy time). I love my husband and I never expected him to be perfect, because I'm not either.
He's right for you and thats what counts really.

[Lisa2]

I have a Parko, my hubby doesn't usually do anything unless I ask him and even then it's not without me having to ask him more then once.I am a SAHM mom so normally I don't mind this but there are the days when I have to make him because I need a break. Hopefully when my 15 month old is older he'll be able to handle it better. But he loves his little punkin with all his heart!!!

[Mandi]

I have to tell you that I have been reading your blog a long time and greatly admire you. You are an awesome mommy. Now on the topic. My dad was never one to get involved until we were starting to get "personalities" he said. It was hard for him to feel as if he was bonding until we would actually respond to his talking to us with a smile or look at him when he said our names. And my dad is wonderful and every bit an emotionally involved father. When my daughter was born 11 years ago - he would hold her but kind of at arm's length. But it doesn't mean he didn't love his grand daughter. When she started smiling and making faces and tooting on him while he held her - that is when they started bonding. You are right Marko will have his time and he will be wonderful to his children!

[Julie]

I have a mostly Marko....

My hubby did take night time feedings for me, when he had the next day off (he gets up at 3 a.m., so on those nights I did them all.) But since our kids (4 of them) were all sleeping through by 10 to 12 weeks, I didn't need him too much there. BUT... My hubby doesn't do crying babies either! LOL! He will bathe the older kids, but is scared to bathe an infant. He will change an older baby/child, but won't an infant, because they are so floppy.... But it worked for us, because I am a baby hog! LOL!

[2mommies]

I guess I felt the need to post as the parent who didn't give birth. I will proudly say I am a Paul...peraps a P+ :)
When my partner gave birth, I caught our son (certainly not the hard part). I do admit, that first night that he lay between us, I didn't even wake to his cries. However, we ended up arguing about who would get up with him at night...she was so concerned I'd be tired at work. Since he nursed (never took a bottle) I did everything to help out and always did bath duty. When I was going back to work 2 weeks after he was born, my partner realized she had yet to change 1 diaper! She's gone back to work now and I am the SAHM. Perhaps it's different with 2 mommies...I'd love to hear from some dads...are there any lurking here?

[Margaritamomma]

I have a Parko. During my pg's he was v. v. sweet and did the rubbing and talking to the belly. But newborns freaked him out. He couldn't grasp any cues. So, that made it even harder because if he couldn't grasp the cues he couldn't solve the problems. Now, my children are 1 and 3 and I have to say that I think he is a better parent than I.

So, there is hope. You are in the right place too, Tertia. You've accepted this. Doesn't mean you can't complain or feel a tinge of jealousy for other versions out there. But accepting it is better than fighting to change it.

God, you rock!

[Terri]

I had a Marko here until the kids were able to sit up on their own and then the "I can take care of a baby" switch was flicked and by golly, he could change a diaper. My hubster was NOT good with crying babies. He still isn't. When our youngest (19 months) cries, I can still see hubster start to twitch and see the look of "OH MY GOD" in his eyes.

But when they are cute and amusing, Hubster is all over them.

I love the type of Father he is. I wouldn't change him for anything.

[spitefulbitch]

I had a Marko Minus. I deadened myself to the situation and decided it was "fine" because I very very much wanted to have an intact family for our children. After 15 years I decided I was actually doing our kids a disservice by sticking it out, and divorced. The kids now flourish because they are in a happy home with a happy mom. They are old enough now to see his true colors with their own eyes and unfortunately don't have a close relationship with him. If I had to do it again, I would be more assertive about insisting on a Paul Plus type of parenting partnership.

[gkk]

Another Marko here. With #1 we fought tooth and nail over it until dd was about 8 months old and all of a sudden he turned into a Paul. Once a baby is old enough to move around, "play" and demonstrate some emotion other than pissed off and cranky my husband laps it up.

When #2 arrived hubby reverted to his Marko ways and the fights started again. They only went on for a couple of months this time because I finally accepted newborns are just not his thing. He did pick up a lot of the slack with dd#1 in this time though, so that helped. Now dd#2 is 8 months, voila, bye bye Marko and hello Paul.

Hang in there.

[e]

Sorry, didn't have time to read all the other comments, but I'll second all those who say they started with a Marko, and beat him into a Paul.
My husband wouldn't ever dare say he's doing things in the house 'to help me' if he wishes to keep his goolies. And he's no less manly (for the time being anyway), and damn sight more useful than he was before his reeducation.
But you have to get them early (definitely in the first few months).

[Neety]

I know this is going to sound terrible, but what a shit of a husband! I'd trade him in for a better version. He sounds like a 1950's distant husband/father thing. They went out of style in 76. I know you didn't want to make him sound bad, and I know you try to justify his crapness by saying it's all ok, but he just sounds like he's buggering off because it's easier. It's like a guy that doesn't help you with the housework because he's "just not good at it". What a crock of shit. He's just your typical 1950's husband. Does he also think it's ok to screw his secretary when things get a bit chaotic at home? Hope not.
Sorry, don't want to sound like a bitch but...agghhhh.
And the fact he never patted your belly when you were pregnant...how horrid! Does he even show affection? Does he have emotions at all? Or does he just make money, buy things and come home to sleep?
Oh my god, thank god my other half is from a different generation completely.
Then again, there's a different type of guy out there for everyone, and you chose him for a reason.

[Andrea]

We don't have the babies yet (maybe never will) but I reckon I'm the Marko and my DH is the Paul (no we're not gay). My DH is the one who wants to continue to slog down the IF road - he's the one who comes to all of the appointments with me, asks all the questions, pays all the money etc. etc. etc. and..... he'd make a great Dad. I'm sure I would make a capable caring kinda Mum - but would probably really hit my straps when the kid turned 10 and could be taken out for some serious shopping and a latte or five! Hell I could even have them drinking G&T by that time (LOL).

[Jinx]

I can sympathise with the not being good with crying babies bit - nor am I! And I don't think badly of your hubby - BUT from the sound of your blog, you have been finding it very tough (and it is, I know as I have twins but I also have a lot of hired help so I have had it relatively easy). But given you don't have enough ooutside help, it would be nice if you could count on your husband to help you with the night shifts occasionally so you can get some decent rest. Even if he finds it all a struggle. Let's face it, it is a struggle for you too but you get on with it. Maybe if he just fed one while you fed the other sometimes, so you can at least have some company in the night and get to bed a bit sooner. I know it's tough on husbands as they DO need to sleep if they are also working full-time but hey - he's in on this too and should be doing it to help YOU even if he finds it hard. Not passing judgement as my husband is not great with screaming babies either and is lucky that we had a live-in maternity nurse for 8 weeks so the twins were sleeping through the night by the time she left and neither of us had to do night shifts (so we get the joint worst parenting award) - but it does mean we have always had good 'quality' time with the babies as we are not tired and run down and grumpy during the day, so hey, I'll take the award. Who knows what mine would have been like if he ever had to get up at night to help - probably a Marko who THINKS he's a Paul..... Don't want to criticize Marko, he sounds like a lovely guy - but since you're always so outspoken on your blog, perhaps you won't mind a slightly outspoken and honest response: I do think Marko is being a little bit selfish/thoughtless... OK he's not good with screaming babies but YOU need him right now - OK he makes a sandwich etc. But you really are finding it hard at night, and I think it sounds like you really could do with him a bit more then. Just my rambling thoughts. Hope you don't mind me saying so.

[Tricia]

I have a Marko.

[Jan]

I have great difficulty listening to stories of men who completely drop their half of the responsibility when it comes to newborn care because they don't like the smell of dirty diapers or can't stand listening to the baby cry, or whatever. Because we women like the smell of dirty diapers so much better? Because we just adore the sound of a shrieking newborn?

Believe me, I'm not telling you that he's a jerk or a bad husband or that you should leave him or any ridiculous crap like that. It's just that personally -- PERSONALLY -- I would not sit back and wait several years until my children were older and doing more interesting things and out of diapers and less difficult to take care of, before expecting my husband to fulfill certain child care responsibilities.

No, it is not fair to you, as a newly postpartum mother handling twins, to expect you to take care of every night feeding, to expect you to take care of the babies whenever they cry, to expect you to handle the bulk of newborn care. Children have two parents for a reason. Personally, and I only ever had one baby at a time, it never felt like two parents was even enough. I always thought that the extended-family-living-in-a-giant-clan model of child raising made the most sense.

I suffered from postpartum depression -- not severe, but not pleasant, either -- with both my children, and if my husband had dropped all the responsibility for their care in my lap and refused to help, on the grounds that he didn't care for crying babies, I honestly would have probably wound up in a psychiatric hospital.

He doesn't have to like crying babies or be the world's best daddy, but he should pitch in with a nighttime feed from time to time, he should take care of his share of the diapers, and he should do it because he's a father and that's what fathers do. There are many aspects of parenthood that are not pleasant or enjoyable but we do them anyway because we love our children and spouses and want to take care of them and not have them go stark raving mad (spouses) or drive our spouses stark raving mad (children).

And for the record, I have neither a Marko or a Paul; I have a Keith, and he is incomparable. (Although not perfect, of course.)

[Cindy]

Katie:
I would think the opposite is true about Pauls in bed. They are definitely more sensitive to a woman's needs and looking to please. You were way off with that comment.

Cindy
(the wife of a "paul")

[Cindy]

(Just strictly talking about Pauls)

[Amanda8]

I have one of those!!! My husband is excellent with my 2.5 year old daughter, and has been great with her since she was about a year old. However, he cannot abide the screaming fits of my 8 month old. When he was a newborn, it hurt my feelings and upset me. Now, however, I accept it. He has yet to be alone with the two of them for more than 1.5 hours. He does bathe, feed, and put the older child to bed regularly, go to the store, run errands, and anything else I ask him to do. I don't think it makes him a bad husband or father. I just think we all have our strengths and weaknesses, and so I deal. I do get mad in the middle of the night sometimes though, when he is sleeping away and I am up with the screamer!

[Lindsay]

I have a Marko. A good friend gave me a piece of advice when I was pregnant that came very true. If I was going to be very busy with the baby, it was Tom's job to take care of me. That worked for us! I only skimmed your comments but I don't think that Marko is as terrible as other's have described. You said that it works for you and that's all that is important. Marko sounds like he is doing a great job of taking care of you:-) It does make it harder that you have 2 babies and I hope that Marko will "step up" very soon. My son is 10 months and he is very much 'daddy's boy' because my husband is a get down on the floor playmate and my son eats it up! I still manage more of the day to day things but I'm another baby hog! My husband accuses me of being a micromanager! Good luck.

[katie]

Come now, Julie, turn about is fair play!

[Jen]

I definitely have a Marko. Although no babies yet, I know that if we eventually get one, I will be the hands on one at the beginning. But I also know that he will be a wonderful father once that first stage is through. And I wouldn't change him with anyone else in the world

[groovyjen]

I have a Paul. (What's with all the Pauls are no good in bed comments? Sheesh! If no help with kids = great lover, there wouldn't have been any complaints from women in the 50's, would there? I'm just saying. And, yes, thank you for asking, my Paul is wonderful in that arena. : ) )

This might just be assvice, but here are some thoughts that might make your Marko more comfortable.

1. Ask for his opinion on a baby related matter - and then follow his suggestion. Perhaps one of the babies if fussy. You might ask if you think Adam has gas or just needs a nap. I think sometimes Dads feel incompetent and intimidated by baby care, so they just avoid it. I think many new Moms don't have a clue either, but they jump in with both feet anyway. Keep asking his suggestions. Obviously, if you do this in a patronizing way he will catch on. When his suggestions work he will feel more confident. Even the fact that you are asking his opinion will help him to become more involved.

2. Trial by fire. Leave him alone with one or both babies for at least an hour or two (maybe just one baby for starters). I promise he won't kill them. Don't leave a detailed checklist for him. Go over some things in a general way, but leave stuff for him to explore. I promise he will have a renewed appreciation for all that you do. Plus this will be a good opportunity for some baby bonding.

3. Realize, when it comes to babies, that there is no one "right" way to do it. This is sort of a follow up to number #1. When he starts to become more comfortable with the kiddos, he will start to take the initative on some things. You might not like the way he does things. Unless your kiddos are in serious harm - bite your tongue. A big part of allowing your Marko to become more of a Paul involves giving up control. This might be difficult (I still find myself biting my tongue), but you can do it.

Good luck!

[Amy]

I am quite amazed to read here in the comments list of so many women who are fine with their husbands being lazy and uncooperative at home. How do you do it?
I must say I don't have it in me to work myself to a standstill just so that hubby can have a nice life. I mean, what about me?
I honestly didn't think there were so many modern women still out there who prefer Markos. God knows, I wouldn't be able to live with one.

Tertia, I used the metaphor of Marko here as you portrayed him in your post. Don't know him at all. I admire your strength.

[katie]

O.k. Gotta comment Amy. Didn't say husband was lazy. Just said that MOTHERHOOD was not for him. He does tons around the house. Just not bathing a child or diapers very much. Please, let's not get judgemental. And the joke about sex was just that guys. We know you all have sexpots for husbands.

[j]

I have a Paul plus. I think my husband is like Anna's husband. He does everything for the kids, and I think he does more than I do. He changes diapers, gives baths, talks to the doctor, reads books, everything. He has given our kids way more baths than I have. He takes care of all three while I work late or on weekends a lot. The greatest thing he does now is he takes all three kids into the shower with him, and bathes them all at once. We have a big double-sized stall shower, and he takes our 3.5 year old, and our 14-month old twin girls all in with him. The girls crawl around on the floor playing with toys, and my husband and son pretend that the shower is a rocket ship, my husband is the captain, my son is the navigator, and the girls are aliens they picked up in outer space. It is so adorable, I couldn't possibly do it credit. And he washes all their little parts and their hair while they are playing. While this whole family bathing thing is going on, I am taking a bath, shaving my legs, and reading a book on the other side of the apartment. How unbelievable is that? But I'm not bragging. I feel a bit guilty about it, like I am not a good enough mother sometimes. And for a long time, my son really preferred my husband over me, which was sometimes rather embarassing.

But we have our roles. He never buys them clothes or toys or equipment or any of the things they need to exist, unless I tell him to, and when he dresses them, it is frightening. I take them to virtually all of their doctor's appointments, etc. And sometimes he gets a little full of himself for being such a great father. He once said to me "well, you've never taken care of all three of them by yourself." I said "oh, you're right, except for the 7 months I was home on maternity leave, nursing the two babies, I've never taken care of them by myself." He did feel like a bit of an ass after that comment. He "forgot" that whole maternity leave, babies in the NICU for 6 weeks thing.

I think your are right not to worry about how Marko is now. A lot of men are not really that into their kids until they become much more interactive. A good friend of mine was so bored with his kid until he got bigger. Now that his son is two, he takes care of him all the time, and plays with him for hours, and takes him on outings, etc. and just plain adores him. He just didn't get the whole infant thing. You'll be fine. But don't let him get away with it for too long.

[stephanie wendelken]

No kids, so I have no idear, myself. But my brother in law is definately a Marko. I've watched him with all three of my sister's babies- won't go near them. More than happy to let me, my mom, his mom/dad...anyone else hold the baby. Now that his eldest is 4, he's much more involved-with her and her middle brother...but still barely held Andrew, the baby. He's gotten involved as they've started walking.

However, this Marko does the cooking, shopping, vaccuuming- so he definately does his share to take care of the fam as a whole. He just doesn't do itty bitty kids.

So Amy, that's how it works for most people, I think. Reading the comments, sounds like it balances out in the end, even if in that area of life (small babies) they aren't there.

[susan]

I have a Paul wannabe. Meaning, if I ever am lucky enough to get pregnant and have a child, he wants to be involved in every tiny step of the way. Only problem is, this freaks me out.

I feel guilty when this guy does the laundry (I never seem to get around to it before he just jumps in and does it). I mean, I love to cook, so I cook and he does the dishes. It's hard for me to sit and read or something while he does the dishes but he feels it's an equal distribution of labour (spelling just for you T, I'm American); I cook, he does dishes. To have both of us in there trying to do the dishes would just be too crowded. So I've learned to let him pitch in.

I hope I can do the same with a baby. I'm such a control freak about some things that I'm not sure I can sleep peacefully away while he does one night time feed. We plan to bf but also pump so the baby gets used to the bottle allowing me a little bit of freedom and so Ed can be more involved in the feeding and care of the babe. It'll be a hard struggle with my guilty conscience to stay sleeping while he gets up with a crying baby, knowing that he has to get up and go to work the next morning while I won't have to (for a while at least).

[Pazel]

My husband thinks he's a Paul, but he's more of a Marko.

He was scared of the newborn phase. He didn't know what to do and since I did all the breastfeeding he felt there wasn't much he could do. That's not to say that he did nothing because he would do an occassional late night diaper change, but then the baby was back in my arms.

When she got older, he got more comfortable. He says he likes her sturdy, when you can throw them over your shoulder and not be afraid of hurting them.

Because of my school, he's been watching her alone two nights a week and sometimes a day on the weekend since she's been three. They have their own rituals and games.

We're about to go through the baby stage again in about a month. I know that he will be a lot more helpful in playing with our daughter than helping with the newborn son.

They're bigger a lot longer than they're small babies, so the men can definately catch up. This is not to say that I was cool with him not being so involved, but I can't change him. I reserve the right to complain and bitch about it, but I am glad he's a lot more involved as they get older.

[Bobbi]

I have to say, I have a Paul, but only because I expect it from him, and with the way our family works (I work second shift and he works first), he really had no choice in the matter.

I do want to say though, don't let Marko get away with too much, or you may resent him after a while. Try some of the things that groovy Jen suggested above. Get out of the house for an hour or 2 leaving the babes with Marko, if nothing else, to go grocery shopping. Because NONE of us enjoy screaming babies, and your sanity demands it. And Marko and the babies (who are gorgeous by the way) will be fine for an hour. Men are like children - they will take advantage of just as much as we let them get away with....

That said, good for you for recognizing what works for your family! It's tough to do, with so many ideas as to what's the "right" thing to do. If everyone could take a month or 2 and just get straight what works for THEIR family instead of worrying about what the right thing is, we'd all be happier families.

Good luck to you - you are doing a terrific job!

Bobbi

[cori]

I have a Paul who was forced to be a Marko by his first wife with his oldest daughter and who is thrilled that I like having a Paul around.

[Catharina]

I don't have any children and I am not married, I just wanted to say that I liked the general message of your post: Love people for who they are. If you try and change them, they are not the person you fell in love with. Too many people get stuck on the things that bother them about their partner and they completely overlook all the good sides about them. I mean hey, nobody is perfect! You and Marko sound like a great team.

[reenie]

I have a Paul. And then some if it's possible. In fact I feel like a lazy slob because he does everything. He takes care of the babe, the dishes, the laundry, the garbage...well I guess I take care of the checkbook. And I took care of the pregnancy and birth. But I still think I'm getting the better part of the deal here.
I don't think badly of Marko. I have no leg to stand on there.

[Mandy]

I think I have a Parko.

My husband does rub my belly - but didn't start until I was 7 months pregnant, well after I was showing. I wondered if he might ever talk to the baby and he started that about the same time.

But, he freely admits he's not looking forward to diapers and I can see the hesitation at the thought of having to regularly change them. He also will be the one to get up early in the morning to leave for the office and I'm hoping to breastfeed, so that will most likely mean that you and I will be typing one handed while our husbands snore.

I too like the idea of him saying "I'll go get the baby, change his/her diaper and then bring baby to you to feed" but it isn't going to happen.

Instead he will do the laundry, wash dishes and make me a sandwhich. He'll play with the baby while I cook dinner. Things like that.

And I'm ok with that, I understand where you're coming from.

[cathy b]

Groovyjen said it really well.

My guy was a little Marko-ish in the beginning, but he changed a lot.

I think that a certain type of person tends to be afraid to try to do something they aren't already good at. (In lots of areas, not just babies or people skills--for instance, learning a foreign language when they are around people who already know how to do it well, or skateboarding if all the other kids have already learned it.) It's always the really smart, slightly competitive people who are like this. They want to be good at something, and fear failure. "Failure" when taking care of a fragile little baby that you've been wanting forever is a pretty scary thing. So they bow out and mumble stuff about not being comfortable or good at it, although they will get the sandwiches.

The way my guy got past it was that I recognized that about him and realized I was just going to have to ditch the house and leave them alone together. It scared the hell out of me, and I totally ignored how much it scared him, but after a few weeks it worked like magic. (And he was the one who pioneered the charming "standing baby diaper change" that worked for both of our active boys who fought laying down once they could stand. He would stand them up in a corner of our bathtub with a few toys on the edge to occupy them, then he'd just rinse them down. Having a lower-half shower several times a day meant we saved on lots of wipes and they never got rashes.) I doubt he even remembers how nervous he was toward our first son in the beginning. Now, with infant nephews and nieces he just scoops them up and will hold them for hours.

It will be trickier for you with two babes at the same time, though--maybe you can leave him with just one? It needs to be enough time that he'll have to rely on his own instincts and learn on his own--probably 2-4 hours, at least a couple times a week. I took a part-time job that we needed at the time. Taking a class would be good, too. But if you have a nanny, you have to find ways for both of you to be gone at the same time--that's trickier.

Oh--and I'd not be real open about "why" you think you need to leave him. Because if you say you're "leaving for his own good" you are putting a measure of control on him, putting you in a pedantic role, which is not what you want if you need him to learn to be your equal in parenting. Learning the foreign language of being a parent happens by immersion. You learned how to care for them on your own, and he needs to do that, too. Remember that movie "Three Men and a Baby?" A person becomes good at something by doing it, making a few mistakes, then trying another way.

All those "used to be Marko" types who changed once the babe was smiling or talking or mobile happened because THAT was the point each mommy let go and the dads had time to get to know the kids on their own for the first time.

[cathy b]

Groovyjen said it really well.

My guy was a little Marko-ish in the beginning, but he changed a lot.

I think that a certain type of person tends to be afraid to try to do something they aren't already good at. (In lots of areas, not just babies or people skills--for instance, learning a foreign language when they are around people who already know how to do it well, or skateboarding if all the other kids have already learned it.) It's always the really smart, slightly competitive people who are like this. They want to be good at something, and fear failure. "Failure" when taking care of a fragile little baby that you've been wanting forever is a pretty scary thing. So they bow out and mumble stuff about not being comfortable or good at it, although they will get the sandwiches.

The way my guy got past it was that I recognized that about him and realized I was just going to have to ditch the house and leave them alone together. It scared the hell out of me, and I totally ignored how much it scared him, but after a few weeks it worked like magic. (And he was the one who pioneered the charming "standing baby diaper change" that worked for both of our active boys who fought laying down once they could stand. He would stand them up in a corner of our bathtub with a few toys on the edge to occupy them, then he'd just rinse them down. Having a lower-half shower several times a day meant we saved on lots of wipes and they never got rashes.) I doubt he even remembers how nervous he was toward our first son in the beginning. Now, with infant nephews and nieces he just scoops them up and will hold them for hours.

It will be trickier for you with two babes at the same time, though--maybe you can leave him with just one? It needs to be enough time that he'll have to rely on his own instincts and learn on his own--probably 2-4 hours, at least a couple times a week. I took a part-time job that we needed at the time. Taking a class would be good, too. But if you have a nanny, you have to find ways for both of you to be gone at the same time--that's trickier.

Oh--and I'd not be real open about "why" you think you need to leave him. Because if you say you're "leaving for his own good" you are putting a measure of control on him, putting you in a pedantic role, which is not what you want if you need him to learn to be your equal in parenting. Learning the foreign language of being a parent happens by immersion. You learned how to care for them on your own, and he needs to do that, too. Remember that movie "Three Men and a Baby?" A person becomes good at something by doing it, making a few mistakes, then trying another way.

All those "used to be Marko" types who changed once the babe was smiling or talking or mobile happened because THAT was the point each mommy let go and the dads had time to get to know the kids on their own for the first time.

[cathy b]

Oh crap, that was really long and somehow I posted it twice. I don't remember hitting the post button more than once, but I must have. Sorry.

[-A-]

I have a Paul. My husband was always good about pitching in and helping when I needed it. He did all he could with our daughter, and still does.

I'm sure that Marko is a great dad, and the number of diapers changed never did determine how good a father a man is.

[LisaC]

At newborn time, I had a Marko who had Paulness thrust upon him. I had a horrible postpartum complication wherein I lost the use of my arms for a couple of weeks. I could support my daughter enough to nurse her, but that was about it. Sure, her screaming made him anxious, but he was forced to deal with it because he had, you know, FUNCTIONING ARMS.

There are two ways to quell anxiety: avoiding the situation that makes you anxious and facing it. It took only a few days of facing it before he lost his anxiety completely. As awful as that complication was, I think it was the best thing that could have happened. If we ever manage to produce a second child, I know I'll be able to count on him from day one.

[Tulip]

My husband definitely took a hands-off approach to our triplets (and that's putting it nicely). He helped only the absolute barest minimum possible, and with a nasty, SOB attitude as a bonus. He was rough with the babies, worse with me, and made it clear he was not cut out for newborn care. So I completely cut him out of the loop as far as any mandatory or expected childcare duties somewhere between 8 & 10 weeks. He wasn't helping, anyway, and I was scared for the children.

So his involvement with them was nothing more than a few minutes each day, usually in passing as he went on about his life. But you know what? *I* was happier, the babies were happier, and he was happier. That made for a better relationship between him & the babies. Not that he worked at a relationship with them, and not that he still didn't scare them with his tone of voice. But at least I didn't have to worry about him accidentally hurting them or something. Was this fair to me? Hell no! But I did it for the babies' sakes and have no regrets.

As time went on & the babies became more interactive, he got better & better with them. By one year of age he was almost a doting father. Now that they are 26-months he adores the kids. He still could spend more time with them, but I know better than to ask him to give more than he's able to give.

Some people, men or women makes no difference, just don't have "it" inside them to do certain things. If you push them, they'll snap, sometimes with disasterous results. Anyone remember Andrea Yates? She was pushed, and look what happened. Men are not immune to the jangling of nerves due to a crying baby, and considering how strong men are and how they can "snap" and do stupid, impulsive, violent things, I think it's unwise to push them in this instance. As much as it isn't politically correct, I say if a man is incapable of caring for an infant, or demonstrates an extreme unwillingness or inablity to do so, he should NOT be pushed to do it.

Each family has to do what works for them. As long as the babies are lovingly cared for, who gives a **** who takes care of them or how fair the childcare duties are split up? It's no one's business but that family's.

[Jan]

Just a note: Andrea Yates had postpartum psychosis, which is somewhat different from just being "pushed".

I'm going to chime with everyone else and say I really like Groovyjen's comments, too. Those are good suggestions for anyone, I think, whether your husband is gung-ho for child care or not.

[Nicole]

Wow - some of these latter comments are interesting.

In response to Amy and anyone else who thinks 'Marko' style fathering = uncooperative and lazy. For the record, my 'Marko' is neither. If I ask for help, he does it. And he works his ass off and not just at his job; he takes care of all the pets, all the yardwork, all the car & house maintenance, he spends a couple wks every summer chopping, splitting, & stacking 5+ cords of wood, he cleans the chimney and the rain gutters, changes the tires on both cars in the fall & spring, he dusts, does laundry and over 50% of the cooking. And that is probably just touching the surface. So, just because he isn't changing as many diapers as I do, or bathing and tucking the kids in doesn't mean he just sits around waiting for me to bring him a drink. Maybe our mix of work-sharing sounds a bit old-fashioned to some of you b/c 90% of the child-rearing is done by me, but hey, there are different strokes for different folks.

And as for references to *modern* women vs. 1950s style husbands; if all 1950s style parenting was so awful, then shouldn't all women have jobs outside the home? Maybe I'm just being paranoid here, but if you completely diminish the role of the father from prior generations, do we also demean the role of the stay-at-home mom?