He is coming in with me or we are not going there

 I overhead a snippet on the radio the other day about children of a young age being in the opposite sex change rooms / locker rooms at a gym. Some people were obviously complaining about it and someone phoned in to say that at one of the biggest gyms in South Africa they had a rule that stated that children 3 and over were not permitted in the opposite sex change rooms.  What? So you are supposed to send your 3 year old son into the men’s change rooms on his own?  There is no way on God’s green earth that I would ever send Adam into a bathroom / toilet / change room on his own, no way.  Call me paranoid, but there are far too many perverted fuck ups around for me to send my three year old child in on his own.  No, he will have to come with, or we will have to not go there any more.

 I just can’t believe this.  To me it seems completely wrong.  I really, really can’t understand why anyone would be offended by a three year old boy seeing your boobs or vagina or whatever it is you are flashing in the change room.  Must we sexualize every thing? 

 I’m probably supremely naïve. Perhaps 3 or 4 year old boys think sexual thoughts when they see a saggy pair of boobs in the gym change rooms.  I find it very hard to believe, but what do I know?  I have no experience with 3 or 4 year old boys. Perhaps it is because I am totally unshy about nudity and the human body that I think this way.  All I know is that there is no way that in 11 months time I would send my boy into the men’s change rooms on his own. No fucking way. I’d rather go in there with him and risk seeing some hairy old men with floppy dicks than sending into the arms of some waiting pervert.

 I am actually amazed that anyone would have a problem with a three year old being in the change rooms.  Actually, to be honest, I am horrified that people would rather send the young child into the men’s change room unaccompanied than have them see some naked flesh. But that is just me.

 Am I missing something? Tell me if I am.  I know I am a super dooper paranoid mom. I know I am way less conservative than most and perhaps I am not reflecting what ‘normal’ people would think.  Would you feel uncomfortable if a four year old boy had to see you naked in the change room?  Would you send your four year old boy unaccompanied into the men’s change rooms? When do they become too old to be in the opposite sex change rooms?  

 

Comments

[Lisa]

My youngest son is 9, and I still make him go into the restroom with me if 1) alone (Big Brother or Dad isn't with us), and 2) if we're in a strange place. I take him in the handicapped stall so we have more room; I certainly don't let him wander around gaping while I go.

Here in our town, like movie theaters or stores, I'll let him go into the men's room alone, but I stand right outside the door.

[Debbie Stothert]

You are not paranoid. When my son was younger he always came in with me. Right up until he was about 6 I think, and after that we didn't go for a while because I wouldn't allow him to go into mens changing rooms alone. We only went anywhere where we had to be parted in changing rooms if his dad came along from the age of 6 - 9 and then after that his friends usually came too. I was always scared when he went into mens loos too because from about 6 or 7 he didn't WANT to come in the ladies with me. Too embarrassed, and so I had to stand outside the mens, feeling really scared that some horrible man was watching him. Once, at the local hospital when we were visiting his gran, he went into the mens and was gone so long I was almost ready to push my way in. I eventually asked a kindly looking gent going in if he could look out for him. My son stormed out very embarrassed and said indignantly, "Mum!! I was having a POO!"

[Nicole]

Nope definitely not paranoid. Your instincts are right on. Here in the US, there are sadly plenty of incidents where the child is harmed when sent into a bathroom or locker room on their own. No child under the age of 7 (in my mind of course) should be set off anywhere alone. Good for you for following your instincts!

[Aurelia]

This happens regularly here, and various city officials have gotten around it by building some family changerooms/washrooms. They do eventually have rules about the single sex changerooms where the kids can't come in after the age of 6, which is still to young for my comfort.
I make my kids use the family washroom, or come in the womens. Thank God for stalls. Stick to your guns Tertia...you are completely right here.

[Lynn]

Tertia,

I totally agree with you. We have similar rules here in Canada. I would also never feel comfortable sending my young children into a change room by themselves.

That being said, my husband often takes our children to the pool and some days I just don't feel like going. In that case, he takes both our son and daughter into the men's change room. It has gotten to the point where he has become very uncomfortable doing that. He said that a lot of the blatantly walk around and shower naked (many walking around with erections). He said that one young man the other day was fondling himself in the shower, all the time while my husband was trying to wash my daughter's hair. Obviously this isn't something we want to expose her too.

You would think that when young children are in the change room that the men could try to be a little more discrete.

Just my take,

Lynn
mum to Jeremy (6) and Eden (4)

[Fiona Monahan]

Hi Tertia, my first time posting but I read every day, love your blog. Anyway to the point. I live in Ireland which I always assumed was extremely conservative but in the gym we attend the cut off for using the opposite gender changing rooms is 8 years which I am fairly comfortable with. There is NO WAY I would have left my son into a changing room alone at three years of age. Even at 8 I was nervous but I was lucky because he has a brother 2 years younger so they used to go in together so he never had to go in alone. I do remember asking one of the lifegaurds on reception to check on them one time when I thought they were gone too long. long winded way of saying I completely agree with you

[Tiffany]

Hell no. No way I'd send my son unaccompanied into a men's room at 3, 4, or even 5! Until he can sit on the commode without his feet dangling off the floor, dad's either going to go in with him, he'll hold it until he gets home, or else we'll seek out one of those "family" rooms that are becoming more common in public places.

On the flip side, because I'm pretty conservative, I don't know if I'd feel comfortable taking my boy into a room where there are naked women about. A bathroom where everyone is in stalls is one thing, but I don't know if I'd take him into a locker room. For all I know, he could be perfectly comfortable with that and not ever think sexually about what he's seeing, but because his ma is so flippin' inhibited, I'd probably shield him from that.

[Lisa]

I think the whole discussion is ridiculous. A child's safety trumps any feelings of embarrassment or self conciousness any prudish woman might feel if a little boy sees her naked in the locker room. What is the big deal with nakedness anyway? Who cares. We all have the same parts.

[Becky]

I'm with you, Tertia. My son is 4 and no way, no how is he going ANYWHERE alone.

And I'd be especially worried for anyone, child or adult, to be in that locker room Lynn describes. Men walking around with erections??? Is this a locker room or a 'bath house'??? EWWWWW>

[Stephanie]

I'm with you, T. I'm WAY more uncomfortable with a small boy going alone into the men's than I am with him watching me change. Even if he was precocious and was looking/talking to me about what he was seeing, I wouldn't think anything of it.
Cutoff age is hard. from a child safety point, 12 is what comes into my head. But from a female point of view, I can see where that age might be uncomfortable for some women. It doesn't bother me, personally-they may be old enough to look and think of it, but they are also old enough to be taught to deal with it appropriately.

[sparklykatt]

Nope, I don't think you are missing anything at all. There isn't a chance in hell I'd let my four year old in a restroom or locker room by himself.

I would think the majority of people would think that I was an unfit mother if I did that.

[Nikki]

Our gym has a family dressing room in addition to the men's and women's. It works out nicely.

[Judy]

My older son is 7.5. This is the first year I've let him go into a restroom on his own, but I sit and watch the door for a bit before he's allowed to go in, and I wait outside while he's in there.

As far as changing rooms, like at the pool or something, he'll be able to go through the men's room IF he's with a group of other boys his age and older (we usually go with friends). Otherwise, he'll be with me. No way am I allowing a 7 year old to go through a changing room by himself. NO.WAY.

[Melanie]

I think that would be illegal here in Maryland (east coast US). State law says you have to be 8 years old to be unsupervised. You have to be 13 years old to count as old enough to "supervise" someone younger than 8. This means you can't leave a young child in the car while you go into a store, leave your child home alone, etc. Reference: http://www.lawlib.state.md.us/UnattendedChildren.html

[mary ann]

When I was a child, slightly younger boys in the changing room made me really uncomfortable.

My sister and I were allowed to ride the public bus or our bikes together to the swimming pool when we were nine and ten (we were both on year-round swim teams alongside of lessons by then), and anytime we saw a boy older than probably three or four in the changing room, it made us really uncomfortable. You know, "What if he goes to our school?" etc.

I can even remember asking my friends with little brothers if their moms were the sort who brought the boy into the locker room before accepting an invitation to go swimming with them. It made me that uncomfortable.

However, as an adult, I can see the reason why you wouldn't send a small child into the locker room alone, and a five year old boy seeing me in a locker room wouldn't bother me in the slightest. But when I was eight or ten or just developing, it made me really uncomfortable.

[mary ann]

When I was a child, slightly younger boys in the changing room made me really uncomfortable.

My sister and I were allowed to ride the public bus or our bikes together to the swimming pool when we were nine and ten (we were both on year-round swim teams alongside of lessons by then), and anytime we saw a boy older than probably three or four in the changing room, it made us really uncomfortable. You know, "What if he goes to our school?" etc.

I can even remember asking my friends with little brothers if their moms were the sort who brought the boy into the locker room before accepting an invitation to go swimming with them. It made me that uncomfortable.

However, as an adult, I can see the reason why you wouldn't send a small child into the locker room alone, and a five year old boy seeing me in a locker room wouldn't bother me in the slightest. But when I was eight or ten or just developing, it made me really uncomfortable.

[polly]

I don't really understand WHO is being protected/helped by such a rule...the child (clearly not, as a 4-year old boy simply is NOT old enough to go into a changing room alone), or the adults in the changing room where the opposite-sex child is banned (are there really grown women who have a problem w/ a 4-year old boy in a changing room?! I cannot imagine this--and I'm reasonably prudish, in my opinion). Perhaps it is to 'protect' the young girls from feeling awkward but--I think that's just normal, and you'd grow out of it. A child's safety is far more important. I'd rather have my little son seeing breasts or whatever than being in a vulnerable and potentially unsafe situation, alone in a locker room without a parent.

Stick with your gut! I don't think you're missing anything.

[andrea]

Here we have "family change rooms" and "family/disabled" toilets just about everywhere which is great because it means everyone can just pile in together.

[Robin from TLOL]

My then 5.5 year old son went into the changing room at the pool with me all summer long. Now, at 6, he's starting to refuse to go into the women's bathroom and I'm not liking it one bit. I don't want to take over a handicapped bathroom when I don't really need it, but I hate the idea of sending him in there alone, and this in a country where that sort of trouble is not that prevalent. I think if I lived elsewhere I'd be handcuffing him to my wrist!

[Kate]

There must be something about men's bathrooms. Bob refuses to take Rosie into them unless there is no other option. He's worried about the pervy men in there and the cleanliness. I think my son was even 8 or 9 before I let him go alone at the ballpark. And I would wait right outside and hold the door open! LOL! Yes, I'm a freak.

[meredith]

Tertia, I agree, 3 is far too young to be unaccompanied. I certainly never had a problem with young children in the changing rooms. However, there was one occasion where there were two boys aged at least 10 - NOW that I did not feel comfortable with and there was no way I would undress in front of them. Another time, I saw a father send in his 3 & 4 year old daughters into the women's changing room - they were very sweet taking care of each other and the women definitely kept an eye out for them. I guess he rightly felt he couldn't take them into the men's. Real problem!

[Adge]

What about religious reasons? Some societies different from our own can be very segragational with gender... though I am not sure if how this would change with young children. The family changing rooms are definatly gaining popularity in the states, and they are an excellent solution to the dilemma you propose.

[Andrea]

Would I be uncomfortable for a 5 year old boy to be wide-eyed staring at me as I walk around naked in the women's locker room? Yes. Would I send my 7 year old son into the men's locker room by himself? No way in hell. If a gym doesn't have a family locker room, we don't go there! All the decent gyms around here, even the inexpensive YMCA, DO have family type locker rooms with individual changing/showering units for privacy.

[Nickie]

My 3.5 yr old will NOT be going into a public restroom/changing room alone for several more years. I don't care WHAT the law is. If there isn't a family room around, he comes with me. Bottom line.

I think parts of the US are waaaay too prudish and need to get over it for the safety of the children. It's just biology people! I also happen to feel strongly about teaching children the correct terminology for body parts. My son has never heard his penis referred to as a winky or willie or any other cute name. He knows he has a penis and a scrotum and when I remind him to wash well at bath time that's what we call them. My mom always used cute names for parts and I grew up feeling nervous and ashamed about my "private parts". I understand teaching the notion that they are not for just anyone to see/touch etc, but you also don't want to make the child feel ashamed of their own body.

My son came with me to a OB visit and the Dr. wanted to do an internal exam. She asked if I wanted him to stand by my head and I was surprised, I'd never even thought about that. I let him watch and he was interested for about 3 sec and then went back to his toys. His interest was summed up by the statement, "Mommy, I think I see the baby!" Obviously not a sexual thought.

If young girls/women feel awkward about a young boy in the changing area, they can either wait to change until the boy leaves or find a bathroom stall or shower stall to change in. It's not like the boys are in there running around playing any longer than it takes mom to get them or herself changed.

Then again, I still shower with my 3.5 yr old sometimes when there's no time for a bath the night before. It's just biology.

[e]

I would think that 7 or 8 were quite early enough. A 3 year old is very rarely able to even dress themselves unaided, let alone be independent enough to negotiate an alien changing room. People can just shelter under their towel if they feel nervous about their bits being seen by an infant.

My mum won't let the dog stay in his second bed in the cloakroom if she needs the loo. I think that's a little excessive. It's not like the dog will be entertaining lascivious thoughts about her.

Anyway, most pools etc worth their salt will have those big family changing rooms now, surely?

[Jodie]

No, you are not being paranoid. Read this http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200606/s1672604.htm

It sent shockwaves through our community, and started much debate about opposite sex kids in single sex toilets / changerooms. Mothers are now refusing to send their kids in alone, me included. Most places now include family or parent rooms where parents can take kids of either sex in. Many single sex toilets / changerooms say no kids of the opposite sex over 5, but if there is no family changeroom available everyone ignores the rule. As you said, what are they worried about? Kids seeing some anatomy? (Mind you, I was a bit grossed out by a post above re the men walking around changerooms with erections - does that happen?? No wonder that Dad felt uncomfortable!). It is also acceptable here to use the disabled toilet if it is unoccupied.

3 is way too young. You are doing the right thing.

[Jodie]

Oh, and not to be alarmist but just to reassure you you're not being paranoid, this happened recently as well...

http://www.abc.net.au/news/items/200701/1829807.htm?victoria

Or maybe Australia has more perverts than other countries...

[Anne]

I also immediately thought of the little girl in Perth when I read your post. About 18 months before that incident I had a blazing row with my (single and childless) sister about this very issue. She has no time for little boys of any description in ladies dressing rooms/toilets. Our DS is 6 and our DD is almost 4. Ergo, she never, ever goes out with our children alone, anywhere. It is not worth the risk.

[Sara]

Like everybody else, I'm with you. I'm horrified at the thought of a 3-year-old in a public toilet/locker room alone. As for little boys seeing me naked, I don't care a bit. They're children!

[Chickenpig]

I don't think you're paranoid, but there is definitely a cut off point. Three year olds are harmless, but at the Metropolitan Museum in NY, there was a 7 or 6 year old boy poking his head under the stalls. I'm sure he was just curious, but come on, a little privacy please! I just don't understand where the men are in all this. Any place I've gone that requires going to change, I've been there with my husband, or the children would be at home. Why can't men take their boys into the room with them? My brother has two girls, and he would never think of taking them into a restroom or changing room with him (he is divorced). I guess there is some kind of double standard here, men are pervs but women are not? In the US most women's changing rooms have stalls, so unless you're letting your boy run around and peek into stalls, he isn't going to see anything.

[shari]

I am floored by your post, and wholeheartedly agree with you! My girls are 3 1/2 and I can't fathom for a SECOND letting them go in a restroom or ANYWHERE else alone at this age...let alone the logistics side of it -- they can are barely potty trained and defintely can't get themselves dressed at this point. 3 yrs old.... unbelievable!

[akeeyu]

Oh, for fuck's sake.

A child is way more likely to be molested by a family friend or relative than by a stranger, so maybe everyone should stop allowing their kids to accompany them to family reunions, instead.

[Bec]

I would never ever send my 3 yo alone. I don't know what age I will allow him to go, but it is way past that age, I'm sure.

My rec center has the best solution, they have a "family" change room with a couple of large enclosed stalls so mommy can take son and daddy can take daughter and all the child sees is their parent. Expensive, yes, but I think it should be a requirement.

[Liz]

I disagree! Of course if I had kids, I wouldn't send them into a locker room or restroom alone until an appropriate age and in appropriate places. But they wouldn't be in opposite-sex changing rooms either. I walk around naked in my gym's locker room regularly, and I would feel really wretched if I ran into a 5ish or older boy (not sure where to draw the line age-wise). And the issue isn't at all be being offended, but the child being exposed to something he shouldn't be or feeling uncomfortable. If your daughter was exposed to an older, naked stranger wouldn't you be upset with that? Public bathrooms are different since only in very odd and creepy-for-everyone situations do you see naked people roaming around - they're normally behind closed doors. So, I think a distinction should be made between bathrooms and changing rooms, and I also think that the only really good answer to changing rooms is family changing rooms as someone mentioned above. Just my two cents.

[DebbieS]

Oh good grief, where do they come up with these rules, anyway? Love your comment about having sexy thoughts about the saggy boobs. I'm all for teaching men to appreciate non-silicone breasts, but not quite that early!!

Now, if a little kid saw someone with arsititis, THAT could be scary ;) Seriously, how are you feeling? Hopefully better since I assume you are sitting down to type in your posts?

[Jodie]

Chicken pig, I'm in Australia and because of the weather often take my kids swimming during the week when my husband is at work. On weekends he may come with us, but it is quite usual for me to have to change my son and daughter myself.

Akeeyu, I agree the stats are more in favour of relatives molesting kids, but the risks are there and why take them if you don't have to. As I said, we've had several cases of it happening here

[gkk]

The first link posted by Jodie happened less than 1km from my house and totally freaked me out. I have an 8yo niece and prior to that would probably have let her go in alone - now, no way. If my son couldn't come in with me, I just wouldn't go. Changerooms I can sort of understand, but all the female toilets I have ever been in have all the "action" behind stall doors so I don't see any problem at all with any supervised boy, even early teens.

[marta]

I feel with you, but in the other hand, when I am undressing and a 6 yo is looking at me... I feel uncomfortable. It's difficult to state the line: 4, 5 , 6 years? definitely, there is a point where the kid is aware of differences in bodys, and begins to stare.

We have the opposite situation: when any of my daughters (18mo & 3.5 y) goes with my husband to the men's dressing room, I'm not happy, I wouldn't like any dirty looks toward her.

Marta

[k]

That large gym in South Africa that set up the "no kids after age 3" rule had damn well better build a set of family restrooms.

That's the only way I could ever see them justifying that type of rule.

Where we live (midwest U.S.), "family restrooms" are very common. My favorite mall has a bunch of them. Each restroom is a large room (with lockable door) with a regular sized toilet, a smaller toilet for the kids, a regular sized sink, and smaller sink for the kids. Plus a changing table and chair to use for breastfeeding.

If I went to a place without a family restroom that had the "no kids older than 3" rule, I would completely disregard the rule and take my boy into the ladies room with me anyway.

You can't make a rule like that to appease one set of patrons without doing something (family restrooms or other alternatives) to help out the families affected.

[Terri]

At our aquatic center, the rule is that children 6 and up have to use the gender appropriate changing room. However, there is a family changing room available, although there may be a bit of a wait for it. My oldest is 7 and I let him use the men's room by himself, but I wait right outside the door. The outer door is usually open (you can't see anything, but you can call in to someone). Anything younger than 6 is crazy, though -- certainly a 3-year-old is not having sexual thoughts.

[MollieBee]

I'm feeling fiesty!

Bravo akeeyu!!! Ya know, people forget that when it is convenient. Of course who really wants to think about Beloved Family Members violating our children. That only happens in the Dirty South, right?!

Jodie, of course you are right too, the best we can do is try and avoid these situations from the get go.

And:

I think the peeking thing is a parenting issue, not a gender issue. Ladies and gents, teach your kids not to stare, it's rude.

:)

[Daria]

Not paranoid. Our YMCA has gone completely overboard addressing this problem. We have a 'family' changing room for parents with a child of a different sex (too small too few stalls a complete tedious adventure in trying to keep a child from oppening the door while you are undressing/dressing) Then there is a female family changing room for moms with girls and a male family room for dads with boys, then of course the female adult changing room and male adult changing room. People get very upset if you bring a child into the adult only room even if the child is just by the door. People are getting more and more prudish.
Love you btw.

[Katie]

Three, four - way too young. But eight is too old to be in the womens changing rooms at the swimming pool. Our pool has a rule that over-6s (I think) have to go to the same sex changing room but everyone just brings their 8,9,10 year old boys into the women's changing rooms and I HATE HATE HATE getting undressed with these boys STARING at me. Chances are my boobs are bigger than their mum's (since I'm an F cup - and I don't see the mums getting changed - this is almost all kids going for swimming lessons, or finishing them just as I start), so even if they have no idea it is sexual they still stare. There is only one cubicle and it's usually filled with two giggling pre-pubescent girls.

At that age, they should be able to get changed on their own - and given that there are usually very few adult men in the pool, either, there can't be many men getting changed in the men's changing room, either. If all the 7- and 8-year old boys were in there, they'd outnumber the men about 5 to 1.

Toilets are different. But changing rooms, especially those with only communal changing space, it's just offputting. And that's for me, a Western woman. What our poor overseas students must think!

It is also different when it is your own kids, though - it is not the same to say "well, I let my 5-year-old boy see me naked, so it is fine for him to see other adult women naked".

[Kirsty]

Good lord, no way. My son was at least 8 before I would let him go to a male bathroom alone and even then I wasn't really comfortable with it but he got to the stage where he wouldn't go into the ladies.

I'm not at all prudish so little boys seeing me naked or in a state of undress wouldn't bother me but any changing rooms I've ever been in has always had at least some cubicles with curtains anyway.

[Kirsty]

Re locker rooms - apart from the danger of molestation, what about the drowning risk? Even if your kid was old enough to get changed by themselves (which a 3 year old most certainly isn't), would you really trust an excited little kid not to go running into the pool without you? Certainly an older kid should be more trustworthy on that score but even kids of about 8 or 9 can't always be trusted to behave sensibly around water.

[Heather]

I also agree that 3 is an appropriate age for gender-seperated changing rooms, but also agree that I would not send my 3 year old into a changing room if my husband weren't able to accompany him. I have seen a few places in the states that offer "family restrooms." Maybe the best solution would be a "family" changing room. Set it up like a public restroom, only make the stalls bigger. This way, I could bring my two young MALE children in with me, without having to worry about offending someone, or them seeing something I would rather they not (pierced nipples, perhaps?). I'm a prude when it comes to my children even seeing their own parents naked - and my oldest just turned 2 this past November! I don't believe in hiding your body, but I also don't know that every woman in the locker room isn't just going to stand there for 30 minutes without her clothes on. When I was about 15 I went to a rec center to swim for a bit and I kid you not, this woman stood stark naked in front of a mirror the entire time I was in there. I couldn't help but see her because of the set-up of the locker room, and I was VERY uncomfortable. Would I want my 6 year old son to see that? No. Would I want my 6 year old son to go into a men's room alone... No. So yeah, I guess the only option for me is more privacy all together. :-)

[becky k]

one thing most people are overlooking is the flip side - of course you don't want to send your son alone at that age into the men's changing room. Nor would your husband want to either, with your daughter. But I can understand not only privacy issues, but also fairness issues. If they allow children over a certain age in opposite sex changing rooms for women, as you want, they have to do the same for men. As most men, a fairly substantiated generalization, are aroused by the visual, and most sexual predators are men, bringing a little girl (but actually little boys too) of any age into the men's changing room is a danger. In the UK, as far as I understand the new laws, you shouldn't be changing clothes in front of a minor who is not your own child - unless you have a specific reason you have to and you've been police checked. So times are changing - and facilities where you need to undress are going to have to grow with it and provide family facilities - quickly.

[Leggy]

My son is six and there's no way in hell I'd let him in a men's room/locker room by himself unless it was a one-person bathroom and I stood outside.

[kathleen999]

I agree with not wanting to send your son into a men's changing room. I wouldn't do it either. But I have also had to have older boys staring at me in the changing room and I think that's wrong too. So there needs to be family changing rooms/bathrooms. That makes the most sense and it would be fairly simple to accomplish.

[Sheri Bheri]

The rules at our local pools are that children 5 yrs or older are not allowed in the opposite sex change room.

But every place here also has a special needs change room. These rooms have banks of lockers, but you do the actual changing in a private cubicle, with however many people you want. There are also baby change tables in these change rooms. There is also a larger cubicle that you could bring a wheel chair in, with a large enough bench that if you had to change a handicapped person's diaper, you could. There are also 4 or 5 private (curtained) showers.

Maybe this is why we've never had an issue with older kids in the opposite sex change rooms.

As for public bathrooms, who cares? You're in your own stall anyway. I agree that safety trumps modesty in this case.

[Susan]

Well, so....I may be stating the obvious but - why not put him wherever it is you put him when you're working out BEFORE you go to change? You can't possibly take him around with you in the gym. So put him in the child care center before you change.

I would NEVER expect someone to let a 3 year old go into a man's changing room alone. On the other hand, 3 year olds tend to point and say nasty things about people too - they just don't know any better yet. Would I be uncomfortable if some 3 year old boy stood there and stared at me while I was changing? You bet. But I'd be uncomfortable if ANYONE stood there and stared at me like that. The problem is 3 year olds (boys and girls) haven't been socialized to understand how uncomfortable that makes people.

When he has to use the toilet, I say take him in with you. But I wouldn't be comfortable with him in the open general room where I have to change.

[Sister Mel]

Its actually 4 years old and the creche has a bathroom for kids uptil about 8 years old.
No one would send their 4 year old to the loo alone but I also wouldn't be comfortable with a 6 year old in the ladies change room.
I've had a 6 year old. He was pretty pervy and rude and giggly at that age. LOVES boobs lil' pervert.
Bet Adam gonna be pervy too, its in the genes.
By the way, are you going to gym?

[Tif]

While I agree with you, akeeyu, I have to say that I will protect my son anyway I see fit.

There was a case here in Vegas a few years ago that was caught on camera where a man followed a 9 or 10 year old (I can't remember the exact age, but it was an age where I would've felt comfortable with it.)into a bathroom at a fast food restaurant and that boy was molested by the man in the camera. His family was less than 20 feet away. When I've taken my nieces and nephews to the movies if its my nephew, who is now 11 I stand right at the door of the men's room. I've told him to go into a stall, not stand at the urinals and that if anyone enters his personal space to yell as loud as he could and I would come right in and I don't care who's naked.

[jen]

3 ???!!!!! You have got to be joking. I'd change gyms. My son will be coming with me (in the absence of his father) until he is at least 8.

I am in the UK, and the thought of my son going into the male loo's on his own scares the **** out of me. If I thought there was a problem with him coming into the ladies, I would go into a disabled toilet with him. Or if that was not an option, I would go into the men's and wait - however embarrassed my son was. Hell, I've used enough men's restrooms in bars, pubs and clubs to have any inhibitions about being in there myself. When I was working in a school, we took a class to the theatre - I had to escort a 6 year old to the men's bathrooms, and I did get some funny looks. But the safety of a child is paramount.

For changing rooms although an 8 year old might be a bit uncomfortable for other ladies, they're just going to have to cope - the safety of my son is more important than their comfort. Sorry! Luckily, our swimming pool has family changing stalls so we don't have an issue right now.

[Izabela]

OK people, so what do you think about a father escorting his young daughter to the ladies? My kid is almost 4, still needs a bit of help in the toilet, and I don't really want her to watch all the men at the urinals. Considering that all the action in the ladies is behind closed door, would anyone mind a man with a little girl coming in?

[akeeyu]

Tif, kids get snatched out of their own beds in the middle of the night, too. Bad shit happens, and it's not always preventable.

I have no problem with people taking kids into the (opposite sex) restroom if they need help or supervision, but Izabela has an excellent point. Everyone who thinks it's okay to bring an eight year old son into the ladies room, how comfortable would you feel watching a man take his eight year old daughter into the mens room?

Sam used to have to take ABC into the mens room when they were out together, and it made him a huge fan of family bathrooms. Really, they just make sense.

[Melissa]

I don't have a problem with kids in the opposite sex change rooms/washrooms, but I do hate the staring. Since the reality is what it is (in terms of safety) I don’t think anyone can blame a parent for wanting to keep their kids with them. Let's just all work on the staring ok people?

As for my kids, I made sure the community centre where they have swimming lessons had a "Family" change room. What a lifesaver that is! My 4 year old b/g twins are in the same class, and my 2 yr old daughter has a mommy & me class 30 mins prior... so it is a bit of juggling.

DH also did not want to bring our girls into the men’s change room... he said men just walk around naked... so it sounds like men are not as discreet as women. So that's OK with me that he doesn't bring them in there. DH was also 'approached' in a washroom by an older man when he was about 10 years old (sooo creepy!!) so he is extra sensitive about the wandering eyes of some men.

The way our Family change room works is brilliant. Basically adults can't get naked in the open area. Kids can of course, but adults MUST use a cubicle.... and there are about 8 of them. It really is win-win. DH and I can both change the kids at the same time in the same room.... and we only need to bring one bag and one locker. And no naked adults. Brilliant!

[Susan]

Yes, I do feel uncomfortable when an older boy (age 4+) is in the bathroom or the dressing room, HOWEVER I would never send my son in the men's room unattended, nor would I expect any other mother to. The safety of a child outweights any other consideration in this matter.

Family changing rooms seem to be the best idea.

[Susan]

Yes, I do feel uncomfortable when an older boy (age 4+) is in the bathroom or the dressing room, HOWEVER I would never send my son in the men's room unattended, nor would I expect any other mother to. The safety of a child outweights any other consideration in this matter.

Family changing rooms seem to be the best idea.

[Melissa R. Garrett]

Oh my goodness, no, you are not paranoid! My son, age 5, once ran ahead of me into the bathroom . . . the men's bathroom! I freaked out! What was I to do? I took a deep breath and gave him a minute, ready to barge in within the next ten seconds if he didn't come out. Thankfully he quickly returned with a huge smile on his face, proud of what he had done all by himself. But I tell you this, I'm more careful about holding his hand and directing him into the ladies room with me. If he starts "noticing" girls and women, we will seek out "family" restrooms and such. I am not concerned about my privacy too much - how can I be with three kids, a husband, and one bathroom? And considering I am still nursing my 19-month-old, my whole family gets a regular boobie show. I try to be mindful of others, though ;-)

PS - I just found your site today and really enjoy your frankness.

[DanaB]

You conceived the day you posted this one! ;)

[Kimberly]

I would not allow my 8 year old son to go into a men's locker room alone!

I still take my son into the women's locker room with me. Only a small handfull of women will wander around the locker room in the nude while my son's in there, and he doesn't even pay any attention to them anyway. I have never heard any complaints from other ladies about him being in there either.

I'm sorry, but if I have to choose between my son being killed or mollested when he's in a men's locker room unsupervised or else allow him to see some nude women I'm going to allow him to see some nude women when he's in the women's locker room with me every single time!

I don't understand why some woman are so prudish about a small child seeing them nude seeing as the boys are way too young to view them in a sexual way???

[Tom]

As a male and parent of both boys and girls, I am wondering,...why would a woman take a small son with her alone to any public pool, etc. I understand the problem. But have you ever considered why you do this? Surely, there are more convenient times, like when you have an adult male relative with you(?) If you are a single mom, why not at least invite some other older kids to go with you. And, I think there is some unnessesary paranoia, here. You can easily observe whether a men's locker or restroom is empty or has many users going in at any given time. No perv is going to try anything with other men around. A five year old boy is perfectly(or should be) capable of doing his business or changing on his on. If he is not, you have been neglectful. The idea of a boy older than four being taken by mom into a ladies room or women's locker is a bit ridiculous to me. And you are probably making the kid miserable. He probably wishes he could crawl under a bucket somewhere. He will not like you for it, and will not "enjoy" going alone with you anywhere. He may not say so in as many words, but it will be all over his face and looks, if you are observant enough. Even most five year old boys are already wanting to learn what it is to be a male. Unfortunately, many are not getting much help anymore.

[sarah]

I have two sons. My oldest is 31/2, i took him into the women's locker room at the YMCA and he got yelled at for looking at some woman who was blow drying her hair.She was incredibly mad that he was in there and not the family changing area. I was pissed because although I was the one who made a mistake she way overreacted and took it out on my child. 5 years old even 6 seems fine to me, espscially if your child has special needs.