Do they owe the sisterhood anything?

Let me share with you a fact that you might not be aware of. Your fertility declines, fairly rapidly, after the age of 37. After the age of 40, your chance of conception falls to 5% per attempt. After 44 your chances are even less. And that is not even mention the rate of genetic abnormalities.

So many women don’t seem to realize that age has an enormous affect on your fertility. It doesn’t matter how much you ‘take care of yourself’, or how good / young you look, your fertility declines after the age of 40 and especially after the age of 44. 

 Women see other older women having babies – high profile celebs seem to pop out babies left right and centre. Look how easy it is for them, surely we can wait too. I am only 38, I have LOTS of time to think about having a baby. Except, well, you don’t. Your eggs have an expiry date, that is the sad truth.

 What the poor woman in the street doesn’t realize is that many of these older women who are having babies after the age of 40 have done so with assistance (fertility treatment) and often with the use of donor eggs.

 Now, let it be known that I am a huge supporter of donor egg as one of the wonderful ways of creating a family. Donor eggs afford so many women a fantastic chance at becoming a mother, a chance they might not have had. Women who donate their eggs to infertile couples are my heroes, I don’t care why they do it, altruistic reasons or not. I came very close to doing a donor egg cycle myself.  It was absolutely part of my plan. I just wanted to be a mother, I didn’t care about DNA.  And of course, there is absolutely ZERO doubt who is the mother in any of these situations – the mother is the person who gets up at night to sooth the crying baby, and who kisses the boo-boos away. 

 Yes, many of these babies born to older celeb moms are from donor eggs. How do I know that, well because I know that after the age of 44, the chances of getting pregnant with your own eggs is really slim. I know that, many don’t. And that makes me a little cross. 

 I think it creates a false sense of security, a false sense of how much time an older woman has left over in which to start trying for a family. It makes me want these older celeb moms to come out and be honest about the fact that they needed help to conceive, that it isn’t easy to get pregnant on your own after 40. I think they are doing women all over the world a great disservice by pretending all was easy and fine and unassisted.

 And yet, do they owe us anything? They have the right, just as we do, to be private about who and where and when they conceived. Many of us (quite obviously ME excluded) don’t go around telling people ‘oh these were IVF / donor egg babies’. Why should they? That is private stuff, right?  Except that not telling, pretending that you didn’t have help not only seems dishonest, but it is as if there is something to be ashamed about, and there absolutely isn’t.

 So, I am torn. A part of me wants them to be honest about the fact that conceiving naturally in your forties is not easy, and the other part recognizes their (and their children’s*!) need for privacy.

 What do you think? Do you think these older celeb moms owe us any form of honesty about how difficult it is to conceive later on in life, or don’t they owe us anything?  And when you answer, would you mind telling me whether you are infertile or not, I would be interested to hear if that affects your answer or not.

 (My dear friend Orange and I were supposed to blog about this together, but having zero impulse control she went ahead and did it without me.  Tired old ‘ho that she is. Go read her post as well before you give me your answer)

 * I have a high profile friend whose children were carried by surrogate.  She doesn’t speak about it. Not because she is ashamed or wants to keep it a secret, but because she says it is not just her story to tell, this affects her children too. When her kids are old enough to be able to process what all of this means, then it is up to them and her to tell or not tell.  I totally understand and respect that.

 

Comments

[Laura(southernxyl)]

Not infertile here.

And BTW, on my 43rd birthday my mom emailed me that both of my grandmothers had babies at 43. Seventh child for one, eighth for the other, and I promise they did nothing special to make that happen.

I understand what you're saying about women seeing these older celebrity moms and not understanding about declining fertility. Women are lied to all the time, about all kinds of things. You don't have to age. You aren't attractive to anyone if you are overweight. You can give 100% to your career and 100% to your family and a happy, stress-free, carefree life. It's just more noise we have to ignore when we live our normal, non-celebrity, non-glamorous lives. I think the kids' privacy (if they manage to have a shred of it somehow) comes before the moms' blurting all.

[lala]

infertile 26 yr old with poor egg quality
i personally feel infertility is a major problem and the more people talk about it the better (although this is just my opinion and each to their own)
ive actually asked my other friends and family who are 20 and 21 to please go to a gyneacologist and have themselves checked (they have very irregular periods)i wish someone told me its not always that easy to fall pregnant! i know ladies(girls?) at university who have been told they need to freeze their eggs because they dont have enough!

my point i dont think its only about older women i think everyone needs a wake up call about infertility because lets face it 1 in 5 couples is alot of ppl!
lala

[Cricket]

Yeah, I recently turned 44 and have to psychologically give up the ghost, whilst simultaneously not be angry at myself for waiting so late to have #1 at age 35. Even with my science training, a decade ago I really didn't realize the hard facts.

I know celebs don't come clean (like I really wish they would, but I'd be rather private in their position, too, if I had to go around with lightbulbs flashing in my face all the time and magazines writing me up), but at least in the past few years, there has been an overall better awareness of/publicity about fertility rates by age. A decade ago, ART was going to save us, so we didn't need to worry. I think the knowledge is more broad now.

[Janna]

23-year-old, no idea whether she's fertile/infertile

I think celeb moms have perhaps more of a responsibility to tell the world if they successfully used IVF/donor eggs/whatever. There's no question that celebrities have influence on the general population, and I think that gives them a responsibility to use their influence for the purposes of education, etc.

As for their children and what that means to them, let's not forget that the children should be educated about this too! If the parents keep it a total secret, the kids might grow up thinking, "I've got plenty of time to have kids - I know because my mom had me at 45 with no problems!"

[meg]

33-year-old, no idea about fertility.

"Many of us (quite obviously ME excluded) don’t go around telling people ‘oh these were IVF / donor egg babies’."

No, but you also don't wrangle a "People" cover story for yourself in which you gush about how wonderful your babies are and how glad you are that you waited until you were 110% ready and had found your path, etc. etc. I do think there's a difference. If you're talking about the celebrity parents that are very private and circumspect about their children, that's one thing, but the ones that aren't do, I think, owe the sisterhood some answers. If you're going to throw away privacy for attention, then don't try to tell me that you shouldn't have to answer certain questions.

I greatly appreciate the fact that, to give one example, Courtney Cox was so open and forthright about what she had to go through in order to get pregnant and carry to term, not the least because I think her experience - needing to take baby aspirin and the like - could help a lot of women who can't necessarily afford unlimited cycles of IVF. And Jane Seymour's stories of having to have her husband administer injections while she was wearing a ball gown at a fancy event were rather touching. In neither case did I feel as though I were experiencing TMI.

Now, all that having been said, I know that there are some women who easily get pregnant when they're closer to 50 than 40. I also know of some happily married couples who had sex on the first date. However, I think that, in both cases, you need to operate off of the assumption that that is not the *majority* experience, and plan things accordingly based on what's more important to you. I'm single, and while I'm not unhappy to be so, I know that, based on my family history, I don't have lots of fertile years left. Since my early 20s, I have made decisions primarily aimed at allowing me to live a comfortable life and advance professionally rather than aimed at maximizing my chances of getting married, and I'm in the midst of another one of those moves now. I also know that I'm not a good candidate for solo-from-the-beginning single parenthood. I may freeze my eggs or I may adopt if needs be, but I am cognizant of the fact that my personal schedule for finding a mate may preclude easy (or any) conception. I'm not saying I'll be celebrating if I meet the love of my life and then can't have bio-kids, but I won't be surprised. I have a bad feeling, though, that some of the women I know who tell me, "33? You have plenty of time!" may be unpleasantly surprised one of these days, which is sad.

[Gudrun]

Celebrities, like all other people, have a right to choose what to reveal about their personal lives. Because of their high visibility and influence, my opinion is that they should be more direct/honest so that they don't mislead people (whether it be in regard to in/fertility, cosmetic procedures, lifestyle choices, or whatever). But again, they are people with a right to privacy too.

I'm an infertile (subfertile?) 35-year-old with a 17-month-old from ART. My husband and I (mostly my husband) are very 'in the closet' around our friends and family about our infertility.

[21stCenturyMom]

I think how and when you have a child ain't nobody's business but your own ("you" being you and the father if one is involved) and your child's . If celebrities could help it they might not even let on that they were having a child at all.

Movie stars are not responsible for the choices other people make in their lives. You could say that everything they do is misleading - their weight, their great looks, who they are (because the public tends to think that actors are who they play). That isn't their fault. They like acting and are successful at it and the public has decided that it has the right to pry into the private lives of the people who entertain them. We also demand that female actors be very thin and look young forever so they oblige through a series of medical manipulations and crazy eating habits.

I personally don't think that the public's assumed right to know puts an implicit burden on the stars to tell it like it is. They have as much right to privacy with respect to their children as anyone else.

Just my 2 cents.

I'm sort of surprised that a lot of women don't know that fertility decreases with age. That information seems like it is put out in the news constantly - mostly by judgemental creeps who don't support infertility treatments. But that's a different issue, isn't it?

[Anne]

I come at ART from a slightly different angel than most; Hubby has a vasectomy so IVF was a work around for us. In many way I think that has made it easier for me to be open about things - hey I wasn't the one with the "problem". Who knows if I would have felt differently after months of peeing on sticks, tests, treatments, and no baby yet. I understand why clebs do speak up, but like you I feel the more we are open about this the less stigma will be attached, the more we will realize that this happens to a lot of couples, maybe insurance will be pressured to provided more coverage, ect..

[heather]

i'm pretty open about out IF journey. i have pcos and we waited 6 yrs of ttc before attempting IVF and were lucky enough to get pg on the 2nd try with an FET. i do think they should acknowledge some kind of help, even if they don't give specifics. i read your friend orange's post and the whole marcia cross thing kind of shocked me a bit in that she's due in april...that seems a little early to breaking the news to the world. i'm due in feb and only 17 wks tomorrow...unless she's due at the beginning of april, she's still in the first TM. maybe it was that gossip piece about them leaving an IF clinic that prompted them to come out, or the fact that the new TV season is about to start (any publicity is good publicity). i've read similar blog entries lately naming julia roberts as another one of these "older" moms that had twins and never a mention of ART...hmmmm. i have a few friends that are ttc and having trouble and i feel so bad for them bc so much of their journey is traveled in silence. i totally understand that it's hard for a lot of people to talk about IF. i have no trouble talking about it and i hope that by doing so, i'm helping others feel that someone understands them or maybe might feel comfortable sharing their journey with me (just so they can share it with someone if they need to).

[Liza]

I too think it depends on how in-your-face the celeb is with their pregnancy, baby/ies, etc. If it's someone who tries to keep their life and their child's life very private and isn't always giving interviews about their daily existence, hell yes they have a right to privacy. If it's someone who voluntarily does huge spreads featuring them and their child/ren who were miraculously born to their 44-year-old self and their 60-some-year-old husband, then I think they willingly forfeit that right and should give people an explanation. Maybe with donor eggs they'd want to wait until the child was old enough to understand about it, but they could at least admit to having used ART.

[Jul]

Hmmn... a very intriguing topic and a very sticky wicket. I tend to agree with the posters who said that it all depends on the celebrity's individual media-whore quotient: whether or not they're appearing on the cover of "Us Weekly" with their little designer-onesie-clad offspring.

Another question: is it JUST celebs who are feeding this trend ("I can have babies whenever I want!")? Do other individuals who might influence it have an obligation to speak out? I work with some very driven, very powerful, very wealthy women... a disproportionate number of whom never had kids. I'll tell you what, I'm SURE not all of them wound up child-free by choice... it's just not something which is ever discussed, however.

[SarahD]

I'm a 30 year old, have had problems but I'm not married, so no pregnancy attempts yet.

I know it certainly strikes us all with incurable curiosity when, say, Geena Davis gets pregnant for the first time at 48. With twins. Without the honesty about their methods, I think it does cause a false sense of security in length of fertility, when it should be saying, "With limitless money and world-famous doctors, you can probably have a baby after 40. Maybe."

Most women, especially after 25, know they're "expiring" as it were. God knows I can't get away from young women spouting about how lucky they are to get pregnant so early because if they'd "just waited a few more years..." which inevitably ends up being my age (ARGH!). We've all read the literature, we've all seen the scary charts.

Whom it really fools, I think, are the men. They don't get read the expiration riot act from their early 20s and they think they have forever to settle down with us. When you gently remind them that, no, honey, it cost them $100k to get pregnant at that age and there's no guarantees, they're astonished. They really have no idea that every single one of those celebrities need help.

[Jo]

Interesting thread! This is a bit of a buggaboo, and I am a little conflicted about this topic because yes, celebs are entitled to some privacy, but yes, failing to mention they used donor eggs also reinforces that notion that we can all just wait until we're 45 to have our families. (And hello? These ladies who are having TWINS almost certainly used DE!) I agree with the distinction between the media-whores and the otherwise private celebs. I am most perplexed by the ones who insist they used their own eggs (wasn't that Cheryl Tiegs? Used a surrogate too, and was damn near 50? I have one word: LIAR!).

As a mom to twins conceived through DE/DS IVF at age 43 (they were born when I was 44), I find that now that the girls are here, I am less likely to just blurt out to anyone that I used donor eggs -- because now it is information that belongs to these two little girls as much as it belongs to me (if not more) -- but when I have conversations with women of a certain age who are trying to get pregnant, and they start to take hope for their chances in my example (I know the look -- I remember how much I clung to success stories when I was TTC!), then I am quick to disclose. I disclose partly to give them a reality check, but also to let them know that donor egg is a wonderful option. I say a silent thank-you to my donor on a regular basis for helping bring these marvelous little girls into my life.

Interesting (at least to me) aside: I don't really think of myself as infertile. I tried for 2.5 years (many IUIs, injections, and 2 IVFs with all sorts of immune treatments, and, oh yeah, a miscarriage at 9 weeks) before moving on to DE, had low FSH, great linings, all systems go, but still no baby. I figure my official diagnosis was TDO. Too. Damn. Old. Just plain waiting too long. Wish I had known better.

By the way, it is definitely easier for a woman who has other children to conceive in her 40's than for a woman who has never had a child. So you also can't take much hope in women (even in your own family) having children in their 40's if they weren't first children. These celebrity moms we're talking about are having FIRST children in their mid to late 40's. Different ballgame entirely.

[Pam]

I'm going to be 46 in two weeks and because of my "advanced" age, my husband and I will be using donor eggs to conceive our first child. I didn't conciously wait to have children, I didn't meet the man I was going to marry until I was 38. Because of outside circumstance, we weren't able to start thinking of conceiving until I was 42. If we could conceive on our own, without fear of medical abnormalities and such, I'd be first in line to try. As it it, now that I've had fibroids removed, my husband wants to try once more (November) just to see if we can. I've given him the statistics, but he wants us to try, just once, then we'll move on to IVF and DE. When we started with Clomid and moved to Gonal-F during the first 2 years of TTC, I didn't respond very well. So, I'm not overly confident this will work. A very close personal friend has offered to be our donor, so it will come out at some point in our children's lives how they were conceived.

It's hard to say if celebrities are the only ones to perpetuate the myth that women in their mid 40s and older can conceive with their own eggs. Sure there is that 5% of women who will, but are they all in that group? I think there are people out there who have used ART but are, in a sense, embarrassed by their methods of conception and choose not to tell anyone, including their families, how they've conceived. I think the ladies of the blogworld are in a class by themselves. We want to make sure that someone else doesn't go through what we may have gone through in our stuggles to conceive, so by putting it all out there, we may help someone else.

And I have to agree with Jo. I don't really consider myself infertile. My eggs are just too old. :)

[Suz]

Recovering Infertile
Two IVF's
7 month twin boys (identical)

I'm not sure that celebrities owe us an explanation of how they conceived their kids; however, they do owe us honesty. It's simple. Don't lie. Don't talk about how lucky you are or how your aunt-so-and-so had twins so they "run in your family" if you pursued infertility treatments. Don't put your pregancy and family in the spotlight, with magazine covers and Oprah interviews, if you have to lie about it.

[gkk]

Seriously, this has had a lot of coverage for a lot of years now - if you haven't realised fertility decreases with age then you must have been deliberately avoiding the information. Celebs also have perfect skin at 40 and perky boobs at 50, but I know they're not natural either. I don't think there is a duty of disclosure but I DO think blatant lying is wrong. As for Marcia Cross, she is either totally naive or (my personal opinion) lying about her EDD - I'm 9w5d and due April 12, very early to be giving a magazine interview.

[Laura(southernxyl)]

Good luck to you, Pam.

[edithmae]

I want to wholeheartedly agree with your friend who doesn't speak about how her children were conceived and carried. My circumstances are different--I conceived as a single woman with donor sperm from a friend--and not many people know who the "father" is of my little guy or how he was conceived. This story is not just mine; it's my son's too, and I want respect his privacy until he's ready to talk about it more openly. I think our stories of how our children came to be ours are private, whether you are a celebrity or not. For me, it comes down to respecting your children's right to privacy.

That said, I see your point about creating a false sense of security and creating awareness about these issues. There are no easy answers here because we are all have a right to privacy when we want it. Sadly, the stimga attached to infertility makes people keep a lot of secrets.

[Foster]

26, assumed fertile (have yet to ttc). May I just say that I love the phrase "assumed fertile"? Sounds so much better than "I dont know, havent tried yet". Says that, only shorter, and I do assume that Im fertile. Anyway.

HOLY SHIT NOW I FEEL MY EGGS WHITHERING AWAY LIKE A WRINKLED OLD WOMAN INSIDE ME, THANKS A LOT EVERYONE. Yanno, the timing of this post is ironic as just this weekend, dh's and mine's plan of ttcing in one year got pushed back to 2 years, which broke my heart. I pointed out to him that we are about to become members of a statistically significant, and growing, percentage of people who put off childbearing until their (or damn near their) 30s b/c of education & financial reasons. Because he is going to finish his undergrad degree, we just cannot afford it. Like anyone who cannot control when they meet Mr. Right (which is everyone, lol), I cannot control the fact that we are where we are. There is no choice about his schooling; it is now or never. The only thing movable is conception. I dont know how many people get to start ttcing when they want to, but I would like to know. I bet it's less people than we assume. I know that went off in an askew direction, but that is my general thought about people who shoot for conception at a "later" date, cuz, yanno what? Much like assumed fertility, assumed age of conception can get yanked out from under you.

Ahem. As for celebrities, it is not my business to know how or why or from where their children came just as it is not my business about the people down the street. It is only mine as much as they make it mine. The history is only theirs. Maybe they dont want their kids to know they are not genetically related. Can we assume this is b/c of shame? Certainly not. Maybe I wouldnt want my own donor egg child to know that she is not totally "mine". I know and you know "mine" is not always black and white, but kids think differently than we do. I see no shame in donor eggs or sperm, but I dont think the truth should always be revealed to them just because someone else thinks it should be. It is a family decision, and the last time I checked, I am the mother of none of them.

As for revealing the facts of age related fertility issues, I think this is a huge failing on the part of the medical profession, NOT the freaking media!!! If your gynocologist does not reveal to you at some time that, hey, your chances of conception dissapear at such and such a time, then shame on them! Im sorry, but educating women about their own health falls squarely on the shoulders of doctors, not US Weekly!!!!

[Sheridan]

Hey T, can I add that a woman's fertility actually starts to decline at 27, and then declines very rapidly at about 35-37!

It is a pet peeve of mine that this is not communicated to woman better. Tell the girls in schools. 'Don't leave it too late! Its not as easy as it looks!'

So, yes, I think that celebrities should be honest. And perhaps especially the ones in their 30s who are having problems. That would make people sit up and take notice.

From a 34 year old infertile who wishes she hadn't waited so long.....

[Orange]

One of the commenters at my blog gave me a link to a USA Today interview with Marcia Cross, in which she candidly said that women her age aren't too fertile, and that donor eggs are a great option (which she used).

[jodie]

I agree with Sheridan in that we should be educating girls about this at school, or in college. I don't think celebs should have to tell how they conceived, it's totally their business. If we were all educated enough about it we'd probably guess that a good proportion of older celebrities have had assistance. I

That said, we can't always jumpt to conclusions just because we know some stats. My sister is 40 and infertile. Her first child was conceived after years of IVF treatments. She has just naturally conceived her second at 40 after 8 years of no contraception. And I'd had to think everyone was making assumptions about that. Not that she would be ashamed of treatment or egg donation - both are wonderful gifts and IVF gave her her first child. But I hate it when people assume they know something about you, a stranger, when they have no idea.

[Jeanne]

I was married at a young age. We never used birth control, and it took me 5 years to get pregnant for the frist time. I then proceeded to have a number of miscarriages. I had surgery and then was able to stay pregnant. I now have a son.

Before I became pregnant, I knew nothing of miscarriages nor infertility. I was angry to learn that, while society tells us to wait until we are financially secure, each year our fertility decreases slightly. Then rapidly when we reach a certain age.

I wish that society spent more time telling us about infertility.

[Em]

I'm not infertile.

I stopped reading the comments because I started feeling peer pressure so I wanted to get my opinion out before it changed ;-).

IMO, anyone's personal body is no one else's business. That goes for disease, sexual orientation, addictions, medical conditions. I don't think anyone owes anyone an explanation regarding how they have handled their own personal/medical issues.

While I think people should know more about their own reproductive systems (own bodies overall), I don't think its Hollywood's job to educate us (God help us all if they did!). It might be nice to hear the whole truth and to have one step up to remind women to educate themselves (for example - what Brooke Shields did for PPD - told her own story, didn't try to make it everyone's story but got the word out there).

Celebrities, unfortunatly, do seem to influence how people view their own choices and while infertility is certainly one important topic that they could start being honest about and therefore educate people, I could name many many more.

[sara]

Semi-fertile? (took longer than average, plus miscarriages?)

I was 30 when I had my first, nearly 34 when I had my 2nd.

I think the message of declining fertility is out there, has always been out there. "Old" women have a hard time getting pregnant. "Old" women can't have babies. Time was, when most women were married and mothers by 20, that most of them had "left off bearing" by their mid-30's (STATISTICALLY! I know everyone knows *someone* who had six kids starting at 35, but they were the exception to the statistic).

I think, though, that that knowledge is clashing with the message of the media and of the plastic surgery and fitness industries, that it is possible to look young and feel young FOREVER. Poeple point to celebrities and say "She doesn't look a day over 40!" Everyone's goal is to freeze themselves at 29.

ALl well and good, but people think that somehow *looking* 29 means all your inner workings are the same as a 29 year old. Um, no. Botox doesn't reach your ovaries. That facelift only did your skin, not your pituitary and your other hormone-producing bits. Important parts of your body don't *know* that you have the ass of a 29-year-old supermodel and the face of a 31-year old. They just know that you were born 41 years ago and you've had your period every 28 days since you were 12 and that makes for a whole lotta eggs under the bridge...

And then these celebrities "Whoops! Twins! At 45! Wow, what a surprise! Help? Of course not! I'm YOUNG! and FIT!" They perpetuate the idea that keeping the outside young will keep the inside just as young. They sell the lie that the fitness/fashion/surgery industry wants to have us all beleive.

[Tracy]

I am a 41 year old "fertile." I had my first child at 37 and my second at 40. I am hoping and praying I can talk my husband and my body into a third. I really am surprised that there are so many people(are there?) that do not realize that conception declines dramatically after you turn 40. I have always thought that once you turn 35 you had better be prepared to consider fertility treatment, adoption or a child free life. Obviously age is no guarantee of fertility for anyone. I started late in life because I married late in life. I feel like I(just me not you) am a better mother now than I would have been in my 20's- except for the being tired all the time part.
I do not think celebs owe it to anyone to talk about the manner in which they conceived. If I had done a donor egg cycle(which I would have done anything I could have afforded for this precious opportunity) I would not have necessarily announced it at the PTA meeting in front of all of my sons friends.
I have two brothers who are adopted and I mention it whenever it is relevant to the subject at hand.
Think you are G&D.

[Alex]

I respect the rights of the individuals, celebrities or not, to be private about how their individual children (or they, as those children get old enough to understand and communicate the information) were conceived.

I'd like to see the media insert a standard disclaimer into any article reporting that so-and-so became a first-time mom -- with twins! -- at 48 (or even 42). It would read something like, "At Celebrity X's age, many women cannot become pregnant even with medical assistance unless they use donor eggs -- the eggs of a younger women -- to conceive." In other words, not ruling out the possibility that Celebrity X is the one in a million but alerting other women that this is very, very uncommon (...impossible...).

[lorrie]

SPOILER IF YOU HAVEN'T READ ROBIN COOK'S TWO LATEST BOOKS--just an example of a male author's cluelessness, even if he's a doctor in real life

Robin Cook had a character in his next to last book, Laurie Montgomery, who "accidentally" got pregnant at age 42. Her boyfriend Jack was shocked and dithered about getting married, etc. They'd been together for 10 years. At the end of the book she had a tragic ectopic pregnancy, and Jack agreed to "discuss" the possibility of getting married "every few months." Laurie wanted to get married and have kids.

I was shocked and contacted the author explaining about women's fertility, and that a real Laurie would be a little more, well, CONCERNED about this at age 42.

Coincidentally, he married her off in his latest novel! Now let's see if she conceives "naturally" in the next one, snicker.

[Cristy]

I don't really have an opinion about the older women having children. I'm too tired to form an opinion.

But after I read your blog and about donating egss a few months*or years I was reading archives* I checked out to donate some eggs.

I'm fortuneately able to do that so I though why not? It will be a good thing to help another mother to be. I have good health, not to weird a history, etc etc. I was turned down because I was overweight. Not alot either I'm about 45 lbs over where I should be to look good. I have regular periods etc. There's no good reason except that I was fat. I wasn't always fat. I'm not prone to being fat so why not use my eggs? Irritated me.

[cathy]

I absolutely think it is incumbent on celebrities to use their place in society to educate women as to the realities of the horrendous impact of age on fertility.

Otherwise you have what we have now which is women walking into their gyn's office every day saying, "Well yes I waited until I was 42 but I thought it would be a problem b/c well yeah I'm 42 BUT my mom hit menopause late (doesn't matter), BUT my periods are normal (doesn't matter), BUT my FSH was okay last year (doesn't matter), BUT I've always exercised and thought my eggs would stay as young-looking as my abds (doesn't matter), BUT Jane Seymour had two at 44 (totally doesn't matter since they were donor eggs!)."

Or you have women saying (just like a commenter here), "Yeah, but I'll just freeze my eggs when I want kids."

Sister, you CAN"T just freeze eggs at this point in time (in any commercially or statistically viable way). You can freeze EMBRYOS, but that's a whole other kettle of fish.

Women need all the education that can get, and in this day and age that means celebrities, too.

And as to the conception story being the kid's story -- yep, I believe that, too. But ART kids MUST MUST MUST know their origins from the start or they're being set up for a life-long violation of trust -- or even, worst case scenario, a medical catastrophe resulting from an unknown family medical history.

Celebrities, tell your stories -- to both your kids and to the public who are being horrendously mis-led by your silence!

Cathy.

[LaurieC]

Not infertile, per se. Had to see RE, do IUIs, have endo, but managed 3 kids, so sub-fertile? lol.

We don't need the full story. That's private, but an acknowledgement of some help conceiving I think is appropriate.

[Foster]

Sheridan & Sara: NO NO NOOOOOOO!!! Omg, I feel like crying. Ill be 28 by the time we start trying. This whole post makes me feel like giving up before I even start. Thanks a lot, everyone. Thanks a freaking lot. Education schmeducation. Right now, I wish I didnt know.

[Kay]

Wait, there are things about celebrities that are honest? Please. Plastic surgery, personal chefs and trainers, unlimited cash, and every picture in the magazines photoshopped to perfection. RIIIIGHT! They look like shit in the morning just like we do.

When the public STOPS looking to celebrities for education, information, and how they should dress/look/act is when I will be dancing in the streets.

The medical community should be more forthcoming with the information. It would also be a good topic to address during biology and whenever else kids study reproduction these days.

Kay - 36
overweight, 1 m/c, mother of 2 conceived naturally at 31 and 34. (I married 6 weeks before I turned 31) If my pregnancies didn't completely suck I'd try for a 3rd (and count my blessings if it all worked out ok)

[tess]

do we owe the sisterhood anything? would women be having affairs with married men if we owed the sisterhood anything?

(that is not an attempt to tie rachel into it, rather an attempt to show that what we know as feminism, is a collective, rather than an individual practise).

36 year old recovering infertile, four children all from ivf. i am very open about their testtube origins.

sure it would help it celebs were honest about their children, it would help if they were honest about their plastic surgery (thank you cindy crawford!).

how else would julia roberts have known that her triplets were going to be g/b at 9/5 weeks if she didn't do pgd? but she has the right to privacy, like we all do. she chose to keep silent, for whatever reasons. i have to respect that. even if i don't agree.

[pepper]

Not infertile..but an older mother..had my first at 36, now at 38 thinking about number 2 - and know it may not be as easy as all that!

I think celebs have the same right as the rest of us to keep these things to themselves.

It saddens me that you (and others) seem to give women no credit for having enough intelligence to work out that celebs/= real life.

[Suzie-Q.]

Cathy, you can now freeze eggs at Cornell Medical Center in NYC. Huge breakthrough this year....

Tertia, i too, am cross at not being given the information i needed to get myself pregnant sooner. Although i am educated and knew that the my odds of getting pregnant, staying pregnant and carrying genetically healthy children decreased with age, i truly had no idea how bad the statistics were until i tried at age 43. I, miraculously, got pregnant on my first IVF attempt with twins, but, didn't even realize i would have to go to that length because i never had any issues with anything connected to my fertility, AND, i always heard about all those celebreties in the media spotlight who managed to get pregnant with advanced maternal ages...
I am conflicted b/c i believe it is everyone's right (including famous people) to protect their privacy, yet, the message is being sent out that it is a piece of cake to get pregnant in your 40's.
I cannot tell you how many women told me not to worry, while i was going through my IVF cycle at age 43, because it is really easy to get pregnant now in your 40's.... all the celebrities are living proof!
So, whose responsibility is it to disseminate this information????????
I believe it is ours, Tertia. Every single woman who figures this out is responsible to every single other woman who hasn't. I have personally told somewhere in the neighborhood of around 20 gals to get their asses in gear and start trying to conceive sooner rather than later and every single one has been shocked to hear me repeat the sad statistics of how hard it is to get pregnant over 40.
Tertia, we should figure out a way to get the word out on a broad scale (internationally). Perhaps a televsion commercial like the one they are currently running in the U.S. about HPV and the dangers it carries of cervical cancer?
Perhaps you could raise the $$ on your blog to take out ads in newspapers to get the word out? Of course, this is just my fantasy about how to address the problem...
Great discussion. Have been feeling very frustrated for the past 3 years about this in a huge way. Feel helpless to help all those other women who need to know what we know...

[jade]

I guess that like everyone else, it's up to people how much they want to share. But you would hope that people in a public position who are able to raise awareness and educate others about issues such as fertility treatment (and other sensitive topics) would choose to do so. I know that it might not always be easily to openly talk about things that are likely to be emotional for you though, so maybe that's why some don't. And as someone else mentioned before, with things like egg donation, that has the potential to affect your child too, and is perhaps best kept until the child is old enough to understand and appreciate what it means before the rest of the world hears about it.

[Elizabeth]

I have not read any of the comments yet, but I just wanted to say that maybe it's not a case of "should they tell or not?" but of getting the word out there about how fertility declines with age. If that were common knowledge, people would put 2 and 2 together just as you have and they would know that the celebrity moms in their late 40's and 50's are most likely using donor eggs. Without anyone having to give up their privacy. Obviously it's nothing to be ashamed of but it is also not something I feel anyone should feel obligated to talk about if they are not comfortable doing so for any reason.

This "false sense of security" thing about fertility bugs me to no end, though. I'm 30 and one of the only moms in my circle of friends from college. There is definitely a sense out there among women in their early 30's who aren't ready to have kids, that they have "plenty of time". In a sense, 30 is still young, but I hear people talking about waiting until they are 35 to get married. It is not even on their radar screen that they might have any trouble conceiving in their late 30's. And perhaps they won't.

I feel my PCOS has given me an inside look at what so many people in their late 30's and 40's are experiencing as the realization hits that they don't have "plenty of time". Because of my hormonal makeup, it's even more important for me to get in there and procreate while I still have a chance...my aunt with PCOS had severe Type 2 diabetes by my age and there is every reason to believe I will have it by age 40. :( For that reason alone I feel a bit "rushed". I have one beloved daughter and hope for another child, and I am already feeling as if I should be trying (DD is 15 months old), given my body.

My sister (27) also has PCOS and also has additional problems that mean that she should probably be trying NOW if she wants a good shot at having kids without major infertility treatment. It is not a reality to her. Of course I respect her desire to postpone marriage (longterm boyfriend has proposed but she is putting him off, she's the one afraid of commitment in this case) and kids...she wants to go to graduate school and do lots more with her career before "settling down". I just worry that she will have a harrowing journey ahead of her once she finally does decide to get pregnant, at age 35 or whatever, with PCOS, hypothyroidism, endometriosis, former PID, interstitial cystitis...the list of things amiss with her "down there" is just incredible. But of course it is none of my beeswax. It seems quite anti-feminist to suggest that women should do anything other than have kids when they are darn well ready. But...would having different information make that day of readiness change? I'm not sure. I've talked with my sister about the whole fertility thing and it doesn't mean much to her because she doesn't care about having kids. NOW.

[Elizabeth]

OK, now I've read the comments, and I want to wholeheartedly agree with whoever said that MEN are especially clueless about fertility (of course! since *they* are not the ones with expiration dates...). My husband had no idea that fertility declines with age, until I told him. He thought that you just decided when you wanted to have a baby, any time before the woman's menopause, and then you stopped birth control, and 9ish months later got a baby! Don't laugh - isn't that pretty much what high school health class teaches you? It's what mine did. My DH could care less what celebrities do and I'm sure he never noticed what age they are when having kids or the proliferation of celeb twins. BUT he was laboring under the delusion that fertility is something stable that magically switches on at puberty and off at menopause. Because that is how most people think of it until it affects them personally.

[joanne]

I'm reminded of the great basketball player, Charles Barkley, who insisted: "I am not a role model". I agree with many of your commentators who think movie stars ought to be let off the off hook for not educating the public on the rapid deterioration of a woman's eggs in her early-to-mid-forties.

At least in this country (America), there was a huge public service offering of the stats/facts a couple of years ago sponsored by medical professionals.

I have tried to alert a child-minded friend or two about the difficulty in conceiving in her forties and was lambasted and written off as officious and offensive.

It's a personal thing.

As the mother of b/g 2 year old twins conceived via donor eggs when I was 48, it's so easy for me to see how - even if I was a movie star - the babies will always come first.

[LondonMisfit]

I'm not sure about the celebrity angle, but I'm surprised anyone can be unaware of the decreasing fertility issue. When I lived in Australia it was constantly on tv and in print media (although it must be said it was usually coupled with very unhelpful a 'selfish career women who aren't fulfilling their reproductive duties, ha ha you're too late' tagline, and the infamous 'have one for your husband, one for yourself and one for your country' quote from the treasurer). Now I'm living in the UK, we're getting the same message here, with the same delightful tagline. In fact in the UK they are starting to offer a service where they will check your fertility at your annual pap smear.

So the message is definitely getting out here and in Australia, but in a pretty negative, women-bashing way in my view.

[Veronika]

Fertile. I find it very hard to believe that so many women don't know that fertility declines as you become older. Aren't we supposed to live in an age where woman are more enlightened about their health and their bodies? Everyone should know that women are born with all the eggs that they'll ever have in their lifetime and those eggs age with you, unlike men who produce sperm every day.

Just like I have the right to my privacy and to have the "nobody's business" attitude, I think celebs are entitled to the same. There are some who flaunt their families and pregnancies in the public eye to get attention for themselves and I think they owe their families more than that. So no, I don't think they "owe" the public anything when it comes to how they conceived. It's something that their kids should learn from their parents someday, not from some snarky comment in a tabloid.

Also, I don't get the assumption that multiple pregnancies from older women (and multiple pregnancies in general) can only result from ART. One of the known risks for pregnancy in older women is the possibility of multiple births. It's nature's way of maximizing the chances of a pregnancy occuring as we get older. Maybe I don't find twin and triplet pregnancies so unbelievable or odd (and assume that the mom had fertility treatment) because I have a twin sister and I know a couple who naturally conceived their triplets.

[jodie]

Not sure if anyone has said this already, but when we're talking about privacy we should also consider the privacy of the children involved - they shouldn't have to have their conception details splashed around when they don't have a say, or a choice.

[Miranda]

I don't think everyone has to spill the beans, while they have chosen a life where they will be veiwed by the public, a celebrity mom does not need the entire world knowing that her cooter has been seen more often by her RE than her hubby recently. That said, all it would take is one honest celeb, who honestly and candidly tells the world about her struggle to create a far more enlightened and knowledgeable society, or at least one where biological clocks are heard.

[Alchemilla]

Unexplained Infertile. 40 years old, trying since age of 34. 5 IVFs, last one successful (for which I am gut-wrenchingly grateful). Educated to post-grad level but still not a DAMN CLUE that when my husband and I met (age 30)and married (age 31), that we should get off our complacent arses and start our family.

We started trying (having delayed things so that my husband could finish his part time MBA - having a baby just *wouldn't* have been convenient, I mean would it? Hah.) when I was 34. My UK national health service doctor wouldn't even consider investigating things until we had been trying for 2 years, and I was TOO DAMN STUPID to insist/go private, because I really didn't know how dramatically my fertility was decreasing.

Facing the possibility that we might not have a family because we waited too long has been THE most agonising thing in my entire life (and believe me, I had very troubled teens and early twenties).

Why didn't I know? Not only was nothing taught at school (except how easy it was to get pregnant), it was almost a taboo to express a desire to get married or have children: Oh no, no boring housewife me - I was going to be a successful career-woman (and who needs Men anyway?). The only women who had children young were too uneducated to do anything else/too poor to care/too ignorant to realise what they were sacrificing. Yes, I did eventually become aware of the irony.

I know these attitudes relate mostly to my own personal home situation then, but surely I should have encountered something, someone who challenged those views? And when I worked, there was an unspoken prejudice against women (note, always the *women*) who had children, as not being really committed and serious about their career.

Re celebrities, nah, it's their own business and anyway, they're the symptom, not the cure. As a society, we have to teach our young that taking your teens right through to your 30s has consequences, and start putting a bit more value on stable relationships and young families. While there's such a bias against parents (well, mothers)in the workplace, and while our goal seems to be to keep looking and behaving as though we're in our 20s only with greater disposable incomes, it's no wonder we're coming up against this.

Tertia, it is good that you have this blog that talks about these issues. Thank you.

[Courtney]

I guess I fall in the camp of empathizing with a desire for privacy and recognizing that famous or not, it's really the private business and decision of a celebrity...but I really, really, really wish more celebrities would be open about such things (yay Marcia Cross, for example!)

While I have long grasped that celebrities don't magically have youthful genes and naturally stay so young looking, I put that in a different category than the fertility issue. There IS a lot of confusion and complacency about fertility. I'm well educated and I certainly took heart from the fact that so many older celebrities were able to bear babies so late in life. And it's a VERY common misconception that having a 3rd or 4th or 5th etc child in one's 40s equates to women generally being fertile in their 40s rather than it being a very different matter to try and conceive for the first time at that point. Which is all my rambling way of saying that it's certainly helpful when these women use their celebrity to educate about the struggles they faced due to age and the options of which they availed themselves. Helpful, but not their obligation. (But again, yay, yay, yay for the Courteny Coxes and Marcia Crosses and Brooke Shields out there! And I do wish the sisterhood vibe and empathy would move more to do the same...like the poster who mentioned being generally private unless she sees in someone's eyes a hopefulness due to her story and quickly seeks to clarify the exact details so as not to mislead and so as to educate about options that are hopeful, it'd be nice if more celebrities thought about the hopeful hearts looking onto their lives)

And empathizing with need for privacy or not, I agree with the comments that distinguish the celebrities who give interviews about their babies and motherhood and mislead the public. If you're going to do the photo spread and interview, then please don't pretend twins run in your family or your various great-aunts all had babies at 50 or this just happened for you.

[jenny]

Amazing, my husband and I actually had this conversation last night. I am disgusted to see another two over 40 celeb's announce there twin pregnancy, citing family genentics. My husband thinks they have a right to privacy but he did understand my arguement that they are perpetuating a myth. I personally don't like the lying. The stars that are honest about - Cyndi Margolis, Courtney Cox, Brooke Sheilds - are certianly not put down for doing IVF so why lie about it? If you want to keep donor egg/donor sperm information to yourself, that is a bit more personal because it really is more your childs story then your own. But to lie about getting any type of fertility treatment at all? That's going too far. Oprah did a show about this a few years ago and had woman in the audience in tears by being honest about how age affects a woman's fertility. I tell people that I got pregnant via IVF. Maybe there is somebody out there going through the same thing that would love to talk to somebody who knows what they are going through, I know I would have.

[jenny]

I notice the person above me mentions Marcia Cross? I read an article in people where see stated family genetics for her twin pregnancy. Has she since decided to be honest?

[Geek's Girl]

I'm 32, don't have children and after reading some of what was written in the links you posted then I might have a problem.

Should celebs admit to using ART? In your poll I voted "No, but I wish they would" because I really did have the notion that I could delay having children for quite a few years because older celebs were popping them out no problem. Well, no problem that I was aware of.

Were it not for reading a blogs like yours I'd probably still be unaware that my fertility is declining as I type this.

What is really frustrating is that I was in no position (emotionally or financially) to raise a baby when I was at my fertile peak. Now that I think I'm really ready and prepared as I'll ever be, well, it might not be possible for me.

But getting back to your question about how open people (esp celebs) should be - this is a tough one. On the one hand I think that information is informative and educational and also serves as a reminder that celebrities are human and have issues just like the rest of us.

But on the other hand, I do think your child is your child no matter how he or she got here. Be it via ART or adoption or heck, marrying someone who already has children. Your kids are your kids and it drives me dilly when people (maybe not mom and dad so much but other family members) go out of their way to remind you that the kids are adopted / step. How much worse if they feel compelled to mention that said child was conceived using a donor egg (insert really shitty "bad egg" comment by unfeeling relative here). Sorry, this is my own private rant.

It would be nice for people, especially high profile people, to admit that they had help, even if they don't want to go into specifics. At least then those who are struggling won't feel like it's some kind of deep, dark shame that they alone have to bear.

I know, this rambled a bit, sorry about that. Hope I answered your question though.

[Mel]

I blogged about this a few time recently--last week on the idea of celebrities being "out" about everything EXCEPT infertility. And then about Marcia Cross this weekend. I think there are aspects to jobs that are your responsibility regardless of how you feel about it. And being in the public eye brings about a responsibility to be honest and educate the public. Not create a false sense of reality. That said, if a celebrity is notoriously private about all aspects of their life, I'm fine with them keeping infertility a secret as well. But you can't be "out" about all other things--the dirty laundry of your marriage, your plastic surgery, your affairs, and then be hush-hush only about the infertility and still have my respect. Not that most celebrities care about having my respect :-)

[SarahD]

Everyone is making some good points about how younger women need to be educated on decline in fertility, but like some are saying, I find it hard to believe adult women in this day and age don't know that. There are articles and news stories on it at least once a month.

Meanwhile you can push that idea all you want, but it still won't make Mr Right appear and willing to settle down, nor will it make the bills disappear. Living in today's society is expensive and requires more education than before. There is still plenty of discrimination against mothers who want a flexible schedule and a lot of women have a healthy fear of losing their place and respect in the workforce. And men are encouraged to extend their adolescence until their 40s.

Sure, there was just a huge news break about decline in male fertility after 35, but who do you think was listening to that story? Women. It's a balancing act to have the information and still tell yourself, no, I'm not settling down because my time is almost up. I didn't intend on spending the last 8 years building my career rather than a family; it just happened that way. I dated the whole time, but none worked out. What was I supposed to do? Have a baby anyway?

It seems like there should be a place where the 2 roads of information could meet and be useful, rather than alternately empowering us and then scaring the crap out of us. You are a woman, you're smart, you can have a career and enjoy life, you should marry the right person...but also keep in mind it gets harder to have children after a certain age. And vice versa. And for the guys too.

[Orange]

Jenny, this USA Today article quoted Marcia Cross from a 2005 interview:

In 2005, Cross expressed her strong desire to have a child. "I definitely want to be a mom — whether I have to have my own or not, we'll see," she told USA TODAY. Cross was well aware of the risks associated with later-in-life pregnancies, and spoke frankly that she might feel more confident adopting or even hiring a surrogate.

Many new mothers in their 40s, she said, rely on donated eggs — at a very costly price tag. "I don't like the average woman being misled into thinking that fertility is something that goes on forever," said Cross.

"When a woman gets older, they get donor eggs, which doesn't make the baby any less beautiful or perfect. One's own eggs only last so long, and sometimes at 43 or 44 you can have your own baby, but statistically it's very difficult and expensive. You don't want to wait that long."

The article doesn't say that Cross used donor eggs to get pregnant, but she certainly appeared open to the idea. And Jenny, you may have her confused with someone else—I don't think Cross is pregnant with twins.

[Gigi]

32, infertile and used donor eggs (14 weeks pregnant today)
My husband and I decided not to tell anyone about the use of donor eggs. We thought that if/when the time comes it will be our children´s secret to share, not ours. I believe anyone, celebrity or not is entitle to keep their children´s secret.

[MommyWannabe]

"No, but you also don't wrangle a "People" cover story for yourself in which you gush about how wonderful your babies are and how glad you are that you waited until you were 110% ready and had found your path, etc. etc. I do think there's a difference. If you're talking about the celebrity parents that are very private and circumspect about their children, that's one thing, but the ones that aren't do, I think, owe the sisterhood some answers. If you're going to throw away privacy for attention, then don't try to tell me that you shouldn't have to answer certain questions."

I think this comment really nails it, frankly. There are a lot of celebs out there that do, in fact, guard their privacy jealously -- and that's absolutely fine, probably better for them and us. No celebrity has to share a damn thing with anybody. It's their lives.

On the other hand, if you're very open about your life and your pregnancy, soliciting interviews and shopping at baby stores with your own personal photographer... again, no one says you have to share anything or everything. But don't lie about it.

I'd love if more celebs were open about their treatments, but I do understand why they aren't. But if someone asks, "Hey, did you use a donor egg?" when you did, don't lie and say no. Tell the truth -- either "Yes, you have a problem with that?" or "That's not any of your goddamn business." Both are true. Both get the message across.

I do wish there was more open knowledge about fertility rates. I feel as though part of it has to do with Sex-Ed classes -- especially nowadays, when the main goal of Sex-Ed in high school is to do everything possible to scare you out of sex. I was told the following: a) women are fertile every day of the month, even during their period, b) women can and frequently do get pregnant even before they have their first period, and c) having sex (protected or unprotected, since condoms don't work and the pill is unreliable) will instantly lead to pregnancy and a whole host of diseases, and will instantly ruin your life.

Now, I know that that that information is, uh, not entirely accurate. Not that I encourage teenagers to try the rhythm method or nonsense like that -- but it's a curriculum clearly designed to scare abstience into you, when a realistic discussion about fertility, STDs, and intercourse, particularly with emphasis on *gasp* preventative measures rather than focusing almost exclusively on abstinence.

Additionally, I wish there was more discussion in general about what babies cost. The advice I got from my grandmother (had five kids starting at 25) was this: "If everyone waited until they could afford kids, the human race would die out. Kids will ruin you financially no matter how much you make a year. So just have them when you think you'll enjoy them." Not that people should have kids when they're absolutely destitute, but sometimes, I think the upper middle class mentality skews things -- you need to own a house, have two cars, have your bachelor's and probably your master's, and you both need to have jobs that pull in $50k a year apiece before you even think of having children. This is my mother's perspective on things, anyway.

People have had kids for a long time on a lot less than many of us have right now. I'm not saying we shouldn't wait until we're stable... but stability might not be what we think it is.

Oh, and I'm 23, no kids but trying, with, er, questionable fertility. The doctor will tell me soon exactly how questionable it is.

[Jo]

Another comment, something I remembered, actually. I am so impressed when I actually see celebrities who at least allude to the fact that they had a lot of help. Apparently, Angela Bassett and Courtney Vance gave an incredibly frank interview to Jet Magazine regarding how they conceived their twins -- DE with surrogacy. Such a class act! And let's see ... Jane Kaczmarek, who is married to Bradley Whitford (of West Wing fame), who played the Mom in "Malcolm in the Middle" -- apparently quite open about using DE to have their kids. And John Edward's wife, who had two kids in her late 40's after their teenaged son was killed. DE also, and while not written about extremely explicitly, it was there between the lines. (However, that's the kind of thing that only of us "in the know" would pick up on). Anyhow, again, while it's their business and theirs alone, my hat's off to those who are willing to be public about this.

[geepeemum]

Hi, I'm not infertile. In fact I became pegnant very easily (5 times between the ages of 30 and 33) but I did have 3 miscarriages and thankfully went on to have 2 healthy children...

I don't think celebs have a duty to tell us how they got pregnant but I do agree that they have a duty not to lie about it. I disagree with all the posters who say that women must know these things - I think a lot of women don't have a clue. I'm a GP in England and I see women in their early 40s all the time who just *expect* to get pregnant as easily as a 20 year old - plus lots who tragically terminated babies earlier in life because "the timing was wrong" and just expected their fertility not to diminish over time.
But lots of celebs lie about lots of things - their bodies, their lovelifes, their surgery or lack of it - so we probably shouldn't be surprised.

[Shandra]

I think awareness campaigns about infertility are important and also that fertility information should be included in sex ed. And doctors should raise that with their patients at ages 30 and 35 and 40 and 45.

I don't think anyone should be getting their health information from celebrities. It's nice when a celebrity sheds light on something like Brook Sheilds and PPD but I honestly don't think they have a whit of obligation to do so. They have an obligation to sing/dance/act/whatever well.

[Julia]

Sure, celebrities have the right to privacy but I wish at least one would have the courage to educate the sisterhood and talk frankly about ART and donor eggs.

I am a single mom by choice and for about a year before I tried to conceive I was harping at my friends that we didn't have time to lose, that we needed to get started before age 35 etc... Thank goodness I took my own advice and two months before by 35th birthday I conceived my daughter using IUI with donor sp*rm on the first try unmedicated. Well.... then they all laughed and said I was crazy....they had plenty of time. Fast forward a few years and I was unable to have #2 at age 38 yrs. and there has been lots of ART in my circle of friends and acquaintances. Thankfully everyone has been able to have at least one, but a few have adopted their second or used Donor eggs.

We need to get the word out!

[abogada]

I had my daughter at 44 using donor eggs after over four years of infertility treatments. I share your feelings, but I don't blame celebrities as much as I do the women's movement in the States. I think that some of those women (the more vocal leaders) believe that career is more important than motherhood, so there just isn't any talk about this issue. Just my two cents; others may think I'm all wet. And I'm probably not articulating that very well; don't mean to offend anyone.

Though it is my daughter's story, I don't want her to be ashamed of it and think that it is something that we have chosen to hide. I have been honest with people, especially people who are in their late 30's and think they have forever to have a baby.

As for whether celebrities should tell, it would be nice if they did, but I think it's a personal decision.

[KLynn]

Wasn't infertile (but got Essure for health reasons).

It's a tough call, about disclosure. Where does their right to privacy (even with their public status) overlap with their responsibility to be truthful? Just got me to thinking about sending the right/wrong messages.

Like *cough*StarJones??*cough* certain celebs having dramatic weight loss, and not necessarily being forthcoming about using medical intervention. Don't want to give young girls the impression that it's so easy to lose weight, or that it's healthy, or right.

In the same way, you don't want to give the average 40+ woman the idea that it's easy to get pregnant naturally. Heck we have enough body issues to worry about (especially comparing ourselves to celebs) without thinking there's something else wrong with our bodies.

Maybe I'm out in left field with this, but I think if they're in the public eye, then they'd be doing the public a service to come out and tell the truth. Maybe give some hope to women who are struggling.

[Feebee]

I am 36 and pregnant by IUI due to male factor infertility.

I am completely out of the closet about our situation and very much in favour of talking about it and educating people as much as possible (without boring them to death!). Not many of my 30-something friends have started trying to have children yet, and while I don't want to scare them, I think it's important that they learn to watch their own fertility signs so that they don't waste any time when they do decide to start trying.

I agree that while celebrities have a right to keep their personal lives private, they also have a duty not to lie to the public and perpetuate myths. Although I do think that "twins run in my family" has become code for "yes, we did do IVF but no, I am not going to admit to it". I voted that celebrities should be honest about ART because I think they should want to be, not because I would want to force them to be.

[kerry]

"fertile".. then infertile

I am an older Mom(43) with 5 month old donor egg, IVF twins and do (much to many people's discomfort)say so proudly.

There is nothing to be ashamed of and I would hate that my twins (or my naturally conceived son) ever thought there was anything bad about how they came into being. My son is 10 and knows how the twins were conceived. And it was no big deal to him( although he was a little grossed out!)

These babies are 100% mine, they are in exactly the right family for them and very, very much loved. I keep in touch with our donor and they will meet each other sometime soon. If they want to meet later on, neither of us have a problem with that and feel that the fewer secrets, the less chance of any negative "issues" around their conception and genetics.

As for how other people conduct their lives, honestly, it really is none of our business, I think. Just as it's none of theirs how I conceived. But, it would be great for people needing more reassurance that their choices are "okay" by society as a whole if public figures pointed out they got help conceiving I guess.

Interesting post.
Have a great week.

[Laura(southernxyl)]

Re: waiting to be able to afford your baby.

I was married at 21 and started ttc at about 25. Because I HAD to be a mommy and could NOT wait any longer. Thank God it only took 4 months for me to get pregnant, because I would have lost my mind - and in 1986 there were not the options for ART that there are now. We lived in a little one-bedroom duplex and shared one car. Was it tough? When the kid came along there were times we took the credit card to the grocery store. But we survived. Someone told me once that if you wait until you can afford to have a baby, you'll never do it. Maybe "never" is too strong a word, and you should certainly have an income and a roof over your head, but sometimes you just have to forge ahead.

[Anonymous]

I agree with your friend...I don't think a celebrity owes anyone an explanation about their fertility especially not one that is not her story. The babies will choose to share or not share that story when they are older. I have a daughter from a previous relationship. She knows very well that my dh adopted her when she was 3. She does not share that with anyone. We are open with her and make points to discuss it a bit each year and share new info. She has no contact with bio dad. She has no interest in sharing the info with her friends, none. It's HER story, not mine now. I have often felt guilty for not telling new friends this information but, it's not my information anymore. It's hers. What she chooses to do with it and who she chooses to tell are up to her. I will respect her as my daughter enough to never take that choice from her. I think it's honorable for the celebrities to not splash all over the news their decisions. They don't owe anyone but, their children an explanation.

[Meg]

Yup, age 34 now and definitely infertile...

I don't think celebrities owe anyone anything. I've kept my IF entirely private (NO ONE knows) - even through 5 years and 4 fresh IVF's worth of trying. It's just not my "style" to discuss it.

Frankly, I think it's OUR responsibility to learn about our own bodies (with MD's help, if need be). Any healthy woman who has an annual exam should be informed of the limits of her fertility. Doctors DO know, it's their job to inform patients - not Hollywood's.

Just my 2¢,
Meg

[suzanne]

Um, I think it isn't really up to celebrities to be providing this information to the gneral public out of a sense of obligation to women everywhere. It is actually something that is the responsibility of an OB/GYN or midwife to discuss with their patients at their annuals like when they are discussing birth control options. I don't think a doctor ever addressed this with me when I was in my late 20's and still saying "We're going to wait a year or so before trying". Um, hello, I had passed the ripe old age of 27 at that point...might have been nice to know that the quality and quantity of my eggs were steadily declining ever single day.

[victoria]

I think people really are aware that the older you are the harder it is to conceive. We're all told by our family practice physicians over here when we hit 36 that, if we haven't already had kids, we have to decide whether we want them.

Having said that, a friend of mine had her two boys when she was 42 aqnd 45 -- without ANY assitance. ???? (Well, she had assistance, but it never worked, then she conceived -- every time she did conceive -- without assistance.) She started trying to get pregnant at age 38 and she had lots of miscarriages on her way to pregnancy number 1. But the pregnancies themselves were uneventful and the babies were healty, full-term, normal babies. I guess she's a statistical freak.

[Chickenpig]

I really don't care about celebs anymore than I care about any other stranger on the street. I don't know them, and how, when, or why they conceived their children is none of my businsess, nor is it educational or informative. I tried to have my children when I was younger, it just took 6 years to do it. I am not infertile, my husband and I are infertile, and his sperm issues are no one's business but our own...which is why we don't tell anyone about how our twins were conceived. My mother had cancer, and told no one but her own family...it's not out of shame, it's just a personal issue. A person's medical conditions and treatment, celebrity or not, are their own business...period!*

*Of course, I'm from New England, where you're lucky if you can get the time of day out of someone at the mall without being looked at with suspicion. We are a tight lipped, buttoned down bunch. Medical conditions, and other dirty laundry, are best kept to yourself. People have asked us if twins run in our family, but no one, not even my own mother, have asked us if we had trouble conceiving or had outside help. I am 36 years old and our twins were conceived in the 4th round of IVF treatment with ICSI.

[Nicole]

"... that makes me cross". With the Marcia Cross story - pun intended?
I have fraternal twin boys after 6 cycles of ivf. I tend to nod to the "do twins run in the family story" question by total strangers. I do not believe it's any of their business what we went through. I hate it when people ask whether these children were conceived "naturally". Like if they are worth less because we did ivf.

I think the message that fertility declines with age should be made crystal clear by your GYN. Luckily, I did have a GYN who told me to think about children soon. But in my country (Germany), women are made believe by the media that you can effortlessly have children in your 40's. And if you have trouble you can always resort to ivf. Nobody tells you that ivf has NOT been created for women of advanced maternal age but rather for young women with "mechanical" problems such as blocked tubes. In Germany things are even worse, as they always celebrate those older American actresses having children - as if you can have them at ANY age. The problem in Germany is that DE ivf is not allowed here. So, most German women don't even know how on earth the older celebrities got pregnant - and probably think it worked through regular ivf.

I do agree that celebrities, too, should have a right to protect their privacy. However, then you should not run a big story in "People magazine" about your natural conceiving and delivery. For example, was it really necessary that Joan Lunden talked excessively to the media about her 2 sets of twins?

[rose]

37yo, not infertile, but it's taken almost a year and 2 miscarriages to get pregnant with my second.

My grandmother had her first child in 1939 at age 45, and a second child (my mother) at 48. So I know it is possible but I know it's rare.

I don't know about the celebrities, I can see both sides. They are entitled to their privacy, especially about their kids, but I think it does create a false sense of security among the general population. I just wish the general population could learn not to take everything about celebrities so seriously.

[ewe_are_here]

Surprisingly fertile.

I say 'surprisingly' because, frankly, I didn't expect to be. I did know that women become increasingly less fertile as they get older, (not to mention the increased risk of chromosonal problems) especially after the age of 35, and I didn't meet my now-husband until I was 36. He was 39. When we decided to get married, we had a long talk about whether or not we wanted children and what we were willing to do / not willing to do to have them because we both knew it very well might not happen easily (if at all). Long, short: we were quite surprised when we got pregnant our first month of trying with our lovely little boy who's now 16 months old. We were even more surprised when it took only two months to get pregnant with our second (I'm now 38 1/2 and 3+ months pregnant).

I actually think that most people, men and women, are in denial about the fact that fertility declines with age. In the back of their heads, they know; they just don't think it's going to happen to them. Kind of like a lot of things in life when you think about it.

As for celebrities, well, I don't think they owe the public anything when it comes to their private lives. And no matter how much they pimp themselves out and pose for the media, when it comes to their families and how they got them, it should be private if they want it to be private. In fact, I think they have an obligation to their kids to keep it private until/unless their kids feel otherwise. I think what cements this for me is the Cruise/Kidman/Holmes media frenzy. The continued calling of the Cruise/Kidman set of children as "the adopted children of..." versus the Cruise/Holmes baby as "the child of..." really pissed me off. Does the media ever stop to think how that must sound to the kids having their private family situations described that way all over the media? I think it shows a severe lack of sensitivity to not respect childrens' rights in these matters.

Sorry it's a bit rambly. ;-)

[Stacy]

35, unexplained infertility, finally had a son in June after 6 years, 6 IUI's, 1 m/c, and 2 IVF's.

I am very open in discussing how my son came to be. I think it is important for women to know that infertility is becoming more common and that there are others out there that have been through it, that they are not alone. I wish I had known someone who had been through it so that they could have helped me. Maybe it would have gotten us to the RE sooner and we would not have had such a long journey. We wasted a lot of time listening to people (including my own mother) tell us that women in their 40’s get pregnant all the time. Of course no one ever mentioned that most of those 40 year olds were using fertility treatments. This lack of information meant that we spent a lot of wasted time with the gynecologist who insisted it would happen when it was suppose to. (The same one who never hinted that 2 years of trying without success indicated a problem.)

If celebrities and people in general were more open to the different treatment options then it would not be so taboo. You would not have to worry about little Johnny finding out he was conceived in a petri dish or was born to a surrogate or from donor eggs. I recently found out that a good friend of mine growing up used IVF to conceive her twins. Yet, she will not mention it. She doesn’t want anyone to know. (Her mother gave her up.)

I am proud of myself and my husband. The journey to get our son sucked great big rotten eggs. But we made it. Our marriage is stronger because of it. I feel like we were the last ones standing on some stupid reality TV show. Not because we got what we wanted, our son, but because our marriage went through hell and we made it. I am also proud of myself and look back in amazement at what I went through and am proud to say I survived. It’s like a purple heart. You don’t want one because it means something bad happened but there is pride in having it. But, when we keep is hidden and make it a secret then it becomes something to be ashamed of and when celebrities and every day regular people hide their fertility treatments then they are saying there is something wrong with it and it should not be discussed.

I will tell my son how he was conceived. I will make sure he knows that he was wanted more than anything else in this world and that he was loved even before we knew he existed in my womb. He will know that his father and I worked long and hard to get him here and that we would do it all again just to have him. The first picture in his scrap book, before all of the ultra sounds, is the picture of the 3 embryos that were transferred on Sept. 17th, 2005 and one of those grew to be him.

[Alchemilla]

Tertia,

This is the most interesting discussion I have ever read on a blog. Not the celebrities aspect, the education (or lack of) side of it. I think it's important, and I'll be sorry to see the discussion just disappear into the archives.

You have gathered a really impressive group of readers and commenters around you. Wow.

[millie]

I tried to read the comments, honest I did, but I have a very short attention span these days. This is something I've thought about a lot and blogged about some.

I'm a member of a pretty small group: I'm a former egg donor who's now infertile and has completed a couple of donor egg cycles (unsuccessfully so far) as a recipient. So, I guess I know both sides. Technically, I'm still waiting for the celebrity but I'm sure that will happen.;)

I think celebrities have a right to privacy. But they don't have the right to lie. How hard is to to say, like the wife of a recent vice presidential candidate here who gave birth at 48 and 50, that I went through a lot to have my children and don't ever assume it was easy. She never lied. She never misled anyone. I respect that.

I do NOT respect any celebrity who says 'twins run in my family' or 'I'm an over acheiver' or whatever. And anyone who plasters photos of their children all over magazines and tv shows deserves whatever negative attention they get along with that. If you choose to do a photo shoot in your nursery, you give up your privacy. End of story.

I do think it becomes the children's story and I see a big difference between privacy and secrecy. Marcia Cross has been outspoken about this for years. She's counseled and worked with infertiles. She has courageously said that fertility declines a great deal and that donor egg is a good option. I don't believe she has to connect the dots. I respect the hell out of her for that.

I think that celebrities who lie and mislead the public do a dis-service to all of us. The perpetuate the myth that it's easy to have children late in life. While there are many cases like an early commenter of women giving birth well into their 40s it is most often women that have already had several other children.

My children will know their genetic origins and I hope have access to their genetic relatives. They will know how very much they were wanted and that we moved heaven and earth to build our family. They will know lots of other children born through ART and/or through donor gametes. They will know that families are built in many different ways. And there is no shame in any of that.

[Lisa]

I haven't read all the gazillion (as usual) comments, so perhaps I'm repeating...

While I think it's great when a celeb speaks about IF, ART, donor, etc., I don't think they're the ones that will make it acceptable.

Most of the public, no matter how interested they are in celebrity lives, think celebrities are freaks who don't have "real" lives. We watch their lives like we slow down at a car accident. We may be interested in who had plastic surgery, but we're also judging them harshly for having it (or being jealous).

It's US. It's people finding out that their friends, families and co-workers are going through this. Only when IVFers come out of the closet is society going to realize what a pervasive issue this is.

WE can teach people how devastating it is to want a child so much and not be able to have one.

WE can teach people that the child conceived by ART is not a freak.

WE can show people that a child conceived with donor eggs, sperm (or both) or embryos is just as much a part of our families as those children with genetic ties.

The only thing in my life I can compare it to is when I think of the gay folks I know whose families were ardently homophobic, but came around when they realized they were bashing the sons, daughters, brothers and sisters they love.

Celebrities didn't change their feeling about homosexuality (if anything, it reinforced them). KNOWING gay people is what got them there.

Sadly, there are no easy solutions to this. I wish there were.

[Banana]

33 year old fertile with 2 kids conceived the usual way

It's hard to say.

On one hand, it seems like a lie for a 40+ woman to not admit she had help. By not admitting it, it makes it seem like we all have lots of time to have our own genetic children.

But there are many reason they wouldn't want to admit it. For starters, it's not our business. Also, fertility implies health and youth. 45-year-old actresses want to be perceived as young and not old.

Finally, if an actress admits she had help from science to achieve her pregancy, it opens her up to attacks from the religious right and other folks who argue that she's "playing god", or messing with the natural order or some similar line of reasoning. If she keeps quiet about her reproduction, she may get criticism from people making assumptions or questioning her having children so late in life, but at least she hasn't confirmed that she used what they may see as controversial reproductive techniques. If she comes out as saying "I used IVF and I'm proud of it" she might as well paint a target on her chest. I'm sure many of us believe that IVF is a wonderful advancement, but there are people out there who see it as sinful and equate IVF with abortion (Don't ask me why... It seems the opposite to me).

Also, if it were me, I'd rather relax and raise my new baby rather than worry about loonies and paparazzi trying to find out who the egg donor was.

[Scout]

34, pregnant with 1st child after trying for four months.

First, like a lot of other people have said, if you're a woman in your 30's and you're clueless about your declining fertility, where have you been? It's been all over the news and in magazines for the past few years.

On the other hand, all these gushy stories from over 40 celebs -- the latest being Desperate Housewives Marcia Cross, apparently easily having their first child are misleading and I think serve to give a sense of false hope.

I was lucky that at age 34 it took me a few months and I was pregnant. In the last few years I have bravely posted on message boards and comments that I wasn't going to let fear rule my life and decision when to have a child. But in reality I would have beaten myself up for waiting so late if we had problems. Still, it's really hard to wrap your head around having a baby if you don't feel ready for it. So I think women know, but just having the knowledge of your fertility is often not enough.

Should the donor egg discussion be more open? Sure, but it's also a very private thing that isn't just about the mother's pregnancy. Genetically, those kids aren't hers. That is a huge, huge, huge issue. I don't care what anyone says. No one just glosses over that. This article in Slate about the wife of VP candidate Elizabeth Edwards raised a ton of comments and then sort of flamed out:

http://www.slate.com/id/2108863/

I think it's human nature to hold onto hope, so even if the Marcia Crosses and Elizabeth Edwards of the world speak out I don't think it's going to make much difference.

[j]

I have been torn about this. I think that it is sad that a lot of women have false hope. But I also think that how you conceive your child is private, even if you are a celebrity. Not just for you, but for the child. It isn't fair if, say, some 44 year old star uses donor eggs, and spouts off about it all over the world, and then that child grows up and every person on earth knows that very private information about him, whether he chooses to tell or not. He should get the choice. There have been a few celebrities who have been discreet, and said "how we conceived our child is private" and left it at that. You can read between the lines. It is the ones who out and out lie that bother me. Like Cheryl Tiegs, who insisted that she had NOT used donor eggs, that she just took really good care of herself, at 50 having twins. Of course, she ended up being outed in a humiliating way, so I guess she got her comeuppance. I think if a celebrity is close to 50 or more, like Joan Lunden when she had her babes, it is okay to tell the truth. It is obvious. It is not really private any more. ANyone with half a brain would know there were donor eggs involved, so I don't think they are betraying their child's right to privacy. But I actually think for someone like Marcia Cross, who is 44, it is certainly possible that she really is pregnant with her own eggs, without assistance, so it is none of our business one way or the other. I have friends who have had spontaneous pregnancies in that age range, so who am I to question. Look at Cherie Blair, she had a baby at 46, and I have no doubt that that was a spontaneous, and shocking, conception. My great-aunt thought she was infertile, and got pregnant in her mid-40's. She was so convinced she couldn't have children, she didn't find out she was pregnant until she felt the baby moving and went to the doctor because she thought she was dying. So you never know.

[and baby makes four]

I certainly don't think that celebrities owe me any info on their private lives, least of all about how they concieved their children. But if they did get help and publicly come out and admit it, they are my hero.

[smallstatic]

I just turned 30, just got engaged, and we have a tentative plan to start trying for children in approximately 3 years. AND I AM NOW COMPLETELY FREAKING THE F*CK OUT. After reading these comments, none of which is new btw, I have to say it's finally sinking in. I personally have subscribed to Mommywannabe's mothers philosophy: "you need to own a house, have two cars, have your bachelor's and probably your master's, and you both need to have jobs that pull in $50k a year apiece before you even think of having children." and have resented the HELL out of people who have directly and indirectly implied that I'm frittering away my fertile years on things like graduate school and enjoying my life. I also wonder how/why I haven't come in contact with more people who have been more open and explicit about just how fine a line I'm walking at my age. After a few years in New York after undergrad and the next five or so in Boston, most women I know are just beginning to come around to the idea of settling down. To be told that we really better get a move on now, and potentially jeopardize what we've been working for, just makes me absolutely furious. I hadn't really been paying attention until now b/c without the marriage commitment, I wasn't sure it was something I wanted. And I also didn't trust what I perceived to be social conservatives who wanted to scare me into dropping the independence and career track and have some babies already. Little did I know...

[Sara]

I have only read about half of the other comments (sorry) so sorry if this is redundant.

I think that people have the RIGHT to share as much or as little of their medical history as they want. However, we have the right to do lots of things that aren't very nice. If you are a celebrity announcing a pregnancy in a very public forum at advanced age and fail to mention in any way your concerns about age, or the fact that you required help, then you are doing the world a disservice. It is your right, but it's misleading, and unkind.

When it comes to DE, though, I think it's a different story. I agree with the pp's that that's the child's own story as much as it is the mother's. I am 37 and about to start my first round of IVF. If I can't get pregnant with my own eggs, then I think I'll try DE. If that happens, dh and I will not necessarily tell the whole world, out of respect for our child's privacy. I WILL however, tell anyone that will listen that the child was born of IVF. I think that IF survivors should be proud of their battle-scars.

On a related note-it also bugs me when people assume that age is all that there is to it. Some people have IF at 22. Others are fertile at 44. It must be so painful to be IF at a young age and deal with all of the annoying "you still have time" comments. People really do need so much education about IF.

[Anne]

Part of the problem is *not* that women don't realize their fertility is declining, but that most men (the ones I know, anyway), don't want to start families until their mid-to-late 30s. This leaves women in a quandry: if they are involved with someone their own age who wants to wait, should they break up with them and look for an older, "settled" guy? This is exactly what happened to me. I dated (and then was engaged to) a man who was my age whom I had been with from age 24 to 29. I had wanted to get married and start ttc around age 26-27, but he was never ready. Finally, I broke it off, met a 35 year old man when I was 29; married him when I was 30; and we started trying to conceive when I was 31. I feel lucky I was even able to start ttc in my early 30s, but some women don't meet the right person until even later than that. What can you do? I had always thought that if I didn't meet the right person by the age of 35, I would try to become a single mother, but this is definitely not a road that everyone wants to or is equipped to take.

Also, I've even had a female gynecologist tell me that I have "plenty of time" (when I was 31)--she said, "Look at me, I didn't have my first until I was 38!" Oy.

[Malinda]

Celebrities, who cares........ I think it is our own responsibility to seek out information about in/fertility.

I'm 28, married 4 months ago and I know a family is on the horizon for my husband and I but I feel that I need to accomplish certain things before we start TTC. But furthering our education and buying a bigger house are not at the top of the list. I want a couple more debts paid down, and to loose some weight in the hopes that it will make pregnancy easier on my body. We're thinking another year or so and we'll start trying (we've been saying this for 4 months now LOL).... but reading all your comments and this blog scares me a little. What if when I finally make up my mind that it's time I won't be able to get pregnant!

My husband on the other hand is ready, more then I am. His dad was 39 when he was born and he is adamant that he will be a younger and more actively involved dad.

[Alex]

Two thoughts in relation to the above comments...

I'm over-educated and knew women's fertility declines with age; I also knew I'd likely have fertility problems due to my DH's having had a vasectomy. What I didn't know (and a message that I think is not nearly public enough) is that the effectiveness of fertility treatments declines rapidly with age (I was told at age 34 that I'd -- in effect -- 'waited too long' and couldn't have treatment due to my elevated FSH levels -- for those out of the loop, that's Follicle Stimulating Hormone and if it's high, it suggests you won't respond well to the hormones used to overstimulate the ovaries and ripen multiple eggs in one cycle for IVF. And for the record, 4 IVF cycles (at a different clinic) later, I'm now 14 weeks pregnant and guardedly hopeful.).

I got, and knew, that conceiving naturally is more difficult as a woman ages. I did not know, and don't think it is often publicly acknowledged, that conceving with help is more difficult too.

Second, yes, they can now (September, 2006) freeze women's eggs, thaw them, and fertilize them. Whether they can freeze older (meaning 30+) women's eggs and thaw and fertilize them and have them divide to become embryos and implant and stick to emerge roughly 9 months later as a baby is, I think, anyone's guess -- as is how many eggs they need, on average, to freeze in order to produce a reasonable probability having even just one resulting in a live baby. Let's remember that IVF cycles only work about 30% of the time (using fresh, never-frozen eggs). Is freezing eggs a promising technology for the future? Sure. Should you count on it as a way to become a mom? I sure wouldn't.

[Dawn]

Infertile - oh boy am I an Infertile

Ok, I think this subject was written just for me. I can speak from experience.

I just turned 40, was fooled by the "woman can have babies at any age, delay child bearing for a career" brainwashing I was hearing at college. I really thought that at 32, I could just start having my babies, because I'm ready now. And for those without IF issues, I'm sure it wasn't a problem. But that's when I discovered I had a problem and it took me 4 years to have my first DD via IVF. Since then I have added 3 more IVF/ICSIs to my resume and got another DD at 38 and lost a DS at 20 weeks along at 37. I am now in what I hope will be my last IVF/ICSI cycle #5. And at the age of 40 it is not as easy as when I was 34, 37 & 38.

I'm also tired of being told I am Old and have no chance at all. It is true I have a much lower chance (why didn't someone tell me this when I was 28), it is not impossible. But I am sadden by my 5-9.7 % chance of success.

As for "should celebrities tell", I think they shouldn't be required, but it would be GREAT if they did. I'm an out of the closet IF. I don't tell everyone I meet or casual acquaintances, but my family and close friends know where my babies came from. I'm proud of them and proud of what I endured to have them. And I wouldn't change anything. But I'm also not in the papers, I'm not someone little girls look up to. Although I do NOT believe actresses should be considered a role model because they act, they are plastered everywhere in print and on the web. When they speak, people listen. When famous people get diseases or are hit with IF, that's when the rest of the world takes notice. When Michael J fox got Parkinson's - the world learned more about it, when Rock Hudson got Aids, the world heard more about it, when Christopher Reeves had his spinal injury the world learned more about it. And there was more funding to help the cause. So when Brooke Sheilds, Jane Seymore, Courtney Cox and a few others came out and said they needed IVF, all of a sudden the world learned more about our struggle. So the more they say, the more advance we will get in our struggle. I am proud of the courage it took for them to stand up and say "I'm an infertile!". Now that's a role model.

Just my two cents.

[PIJill]

It isn't the not telling that bugs me, it is the clear lying that drives me nuts! Oh, yeah, I am in my mid 40s and just happened to conceive, and isn't it wonderful! I cant tell you how many people told me about how they didn't have to worry about their fertility because look at all these older celebs who got pregnant without help in their mid 40s.

[Vanessa]

I'm 32 and infertile, rocketing towards IVF #3 after a m/c.

I am also an egg donor-for each cycle I have, I give half my eggs to someone else who needs eggs. From an egg donor perspective, I have to say-I don't care why they need them. Maybe they waited to have a family, early menopause, ovarian cancer, who knows? All I know is they need them, and who am I to judge?

(said while swilling pinot grigio)

[Vanessa]

PS-Marcia Cross did IVF? With DE? And it worked?

Lucky cow.

[heathersak]

Hi there T, I'm a little late coming to this.

I'm not infertile, and I'm with you on this issue - I'm torn. I think there are certain aspects of celebrity life - say, aspects the celebrity can control, like manners in restaurants - that celebrities (that are WILLING to be celebrities) have a responsibility to demonstrate good role modelling around to the public.

But I don't think that reproductive success levels are one of those things celebrities 'owe' to demonstrate to us.

BUT, I also agree that there really shouldn't be any shame around needing help to reproduce at advanced age.

THEREFORE, I hope that more celebrity parents CHOOSE to open up about difficulties in reproduction, simply to show support for other couples going through similar trials and educate the general public.

[heathersak]

In response to Foster (11 September 2006 at 01:51 AM), I know you probably won't read this, but I sense our situations are similar - or at least, were until last fall. I'm 25 and, as stated above, haven't experienced any hinderances to my fertility.

My partner and I (together 6 years; engaged) ramped up our discussion of having children in the past 3 years. I'm in the middle of my Bachelor of Environmental Biology degree (which, as a side note, may change to a B. Education if I can secure funding), and we are living quite sparsely.

I got him on board with TTC last year... We were shooting for (har) TTC in Nov, but I got pregnant in Oct (was monitoring fertility signs in prep for TTC). We had our son Drew this past June. We're still poor, and I'm not sure if/when I complete my degree.

Stupid? Sure. But we're making it work. When people would begin to scold us on our 'timing', I would let them know that This Feels Right For Us and that we respect THEIR choices, whatever they be.

Anyways, all this to answer your question: "I dont know how many people get to start ttcing when they want to, but I would like to know."
- I was fortunate (and rare? I think so) to TTC when I wanted to (was bursting w/ baby urge - lol pun). I hope this doesn't make you feel bad in any way (saw your second comment!), I just love answering questions! :)

[Sarah V.]

OK, I give up. I've been trying and trying to get a trackback through to this post from mine, and it just isn't coming up. Any techie types reading this who might have a clue why that would be?

Anyway, my post (only rather tangentially related) is at .

[Come On ... Educate Yourselves, Silly People!]

I doubt than anyone will even read this because the entries seem to be very old -- (from 2006?) Anyway, if this does get read, my post MAY just blow all of the ideas about "advanced-aged mothers out of the water."

First of all, I have a couple friends who are doctors, and we are all in aggreement that "THE AGE" MUST be changed. "THE AGE", meaning 40 years old, MSUT be upped by AT LEAST five years, IF not ten. Let's put on our "logical caps", and start relearning something new, refreshing, and inspiring.

Okay, 40 years of age is NO LONGER "the magical" age to stop having babies for women! Does anyone realize that we are A) living longer, B) living healther, C) taking better care of ourselves, and D) starting families later in life? Does that tell you anything? Age is just a number, and a woman in her 40's is just as healthy as a woman in her 20's. The supply may be different, but the above sentence came out of the mouth of my doctor friend.

A body, male or female, does NOT know how old it is! Silly people, I know many, many, many women over that age, and older yet, still having healhty babies! You MUST take good care of yourself, live by the "golden rule", but if you want children, do so. 'Go forth, and mutiply.' That's a quote from the "Good Book", but, seriously, fill your heart's desires. Don't listen to that crap about age! I'm tired of hearing it, too!

So, with all that being said, in my own logical opinion, if we take good care of ourselves, our bodies, and minds, etc., woman can have natural babies, with natural child birth WITHOUT the help of A.R.T.! Yes, it CAN be done. I see it everyday. Twins are common in a certain age group, 30- 50, but that's just because the ovaries are kicking out/using up the last of their egg supply, but a woman can have a baby NATURAlLY until she's in full-blown menopause, and then do IVF, afterwards, if a woman still wants children after menopause.

I just want to express a couple more things. Why did we not see many people in their 40's having babies ten years past? Do you want the logical reason for this? Because of what I wrote in paragraph three (we are living longer, taking better care of ourselves, etc.) women of today have many options for good birth control. What you probably don't realize is that women of the past (women in the "olden days") kept having children until their bodies were done, and most of them were still reproducing, naturally, of course, until their 50's, really, and truly.

Like I said, we have better birth-control options; therefore, women can NOW CHOOSE how long she wants to keep having babies. I disliked almost all of these comments because a lot of people made it sound as if every celebrity, or every advanced-aged woman who has/had twins had some sort of A.R.T., and that just, most likely, "ain't" the case!

Educate yourselves. We no longer live in a world where there's limited information out there, thanks to the Internet. I'm truly disheartened by all these thoughts that women are waiting on purpose because they know they can just "purchase a baby -- a *kidcycle*, IVF, or have any kind of A.R.T. done for their own "selfish" conveinences.

I think that's all I need to say, for now. I hope it gets read, and that it gives people HOPE, and NOT uninspired information. These comments were, not only mean, and nasty regarding "older mothers", but they were full of crap, plain crap! Do some reading. Go to a library, sit down with a book written for TODAY'S women, and then comment.

LLL,
B.

[Come On ... Educate Yourselves, Silly People!]

I doubt than anyone will even read this because the entries seem to be very old -- (from 2006?) Anyway, if this does get read, my post MAY just blow all of these ideas of "advanced-aged mothers, and celebrities right out of the water."

First of all, I have a couple friends who are doctors, and we are all in aggreement that "THE AGE" MUST be changed. "THE AGE" MUST be upped by, AT LEAST, five years, IF not ten. Let's put on our "logical caps", and start (re)learning something new, refreshing, and inspiring.

Okay, 40 years of age is NO LONGER "the magical" age to stop having babies for women! Does anyone realize that we are A) living longer, B) living healthier, C) taking better care of ourselves, and D) starting families later in life? Doesn't that tell you anything? Age is just a number, and women in their 40's are just as healthy as women in their 20's. The supply and demand may be a bit different, but the above statement, that sentence of the comparison in the ages came out of the mouth of my dear doctor friends, and she is highly-trained in OB/GYN.

A body, male or female, does NOT know how old it is! Silly people, I know many, many, many women over that age, and older yet, still having healhty babies! You MUST take good care of yourself though, live by the "golden rule", and if you want children, do so! 'Go forth, and mutiply.' That's a quote from the "Good Book", but, seriously, fill your heart's desires. Don't listen to that crap about age! I'm tired of hearing it, too!

So, with all that being said, in my own logical opinion, if we take good care of ourselves, our bodies, and minds, etc., woman can have natural babies, with natural child birth, WITHOUT any help from A.R.T.! Yes, it CAN be done. I see it everyday. Twins are a common thing, but usually in a certain age group, 30-50. Because the ovaries are kicking out and using up the last of their egg supply, two or three egg cells may be fertilized during the fertile window of her cycle, resulting in multiples. A woman can have a baby NATURAlLY until she's in full-blown menopause. If she is past that, and still wants children, she can do IVF. I will say though, just because a woman does IVF, doesn't mean she will get a baby on her first try. Sometimes, it takes several tries, and, even then, IVF doesn't, sadly, always work.

I just want to express a couple more things. Why did we not see many people in their 40's having babies 15 years ago, like in the early 90's (1990)? Do you want the logical reason for this? Because we are living longer and taking better care of ourselves, women of today have many more options for good birth control. What you probably don't realize is that women of the past (women who lived back in the age where there WASN'T any form of birth control, or education such as FAM) kept having children until their bodies were done, and most of them were still reproducing, naturally, of course, well into their 50's, really, and truly.

Like I said, we have better birth-control options today; therefore, women can NOW CHOOSE how long she wants to keep having babies. I disliked almost all of these comments because a lot of people made it sound as if every celebrity, or every advanced-aged woman who has/had twins had some sort of A.R.T., and that just, most likely, "ain't" the case!

Educate yourselves. We no longer live in a world where there's limited information out there, thanks to the Internet. I'm truly disheartened by all these thoughts that women are waiting on purpose because they know they can just "purchase a baby" -- make a "kidcycle", do IVF, or have ANY kind of A.R.T., whenever they want, done for their own "selfish" conveinences.

I think that's all I need to say, for now. I hope it gets read, and I hope it gives people new HOPE, and NOT "an-all-is-lost feeling." These comments were, not only mean, low, and nasty regarding "older mothers", and celebrities, but they were full of crap, plain crap! Do some reading. Go to a library, sit down with a book written about TODAY'S WOMEN, and fertility, and then comment.

LLL,
B.