Do they owe the sisterhood anything?

Let me share with you a fact that you might not be aware of. Your fertility declines, fairly rapidly, after the age of 37. After the age of 40, your chance of conception falls to 5% per attempt. After 44 your chances are even less. And that is not even mention the rate of genetic abnormalities.

So many women don’t seem to realize that age has an enormous affect on your fertility. It doesn’t matter how much you ‘take care of yourself’, or how good / young you look, your fertility declines after the age of 40 and especially after the age of 44. 

 Women see other older women having babies – high profile celebs seem to pop out babies left right and centre. Look how easy it is for them, surely we can wait too. I am only 38, I have LOTS of time to think about having a baby. Except, well, you don’t. Your eggs have an expiry date, that is the sad truth.

 What the poor woman in the street doesn’t realize is that many of these older women who are having babies after the age of 40 have done so with assistance (fertility treatment) and often with the use of donor eggs.

 Now, let it be known that I am a huge supporter of donor egg as one of the wonderful ways of creating a family. Donor eggs afford so many women a fantastic chance at becoming a mother, a chance they might not have had. Women who donate their eggs to infertile couples are my heroes, I don’t care why they do it, altruistic reasons or not. I came very close to doing a donor egg cycle myself.  It was absolutely part of my plan. I just wanted to be a mother, I didn’t care about DNA.  And of course, there is absolutely ZERO doubt who is the mother in any of these situations – the mother is the person who gets up at night to sooth the crying baby, and who kisses the boo-boos away. 

 Yes, many of these babies born to older celeb moms are from donor eggs. How do I know that, well because I know that after the age of 44, the chances of getting pregnant with your own eggs is really slim. I know that, many don’t. And that makes me a little cross. 

 I think it creates a false sense of security, a false sense of how much time an older woman has left over in which to start trying for a family. It makes me want these older celeb moms to come out and be honest about the fact that they needed help to conceive, that it isn’t easy to get pregnant on your own after 40. I think they are doing women all over the world a great disservice by pretending all was easy and fine and unassisted.

 And yet, do they owe us anything? They have the right, just as we do, to be private about who and where and when they conceived. Many of us (quite obviously ME excluded) don’t go around telling people ‘oh these were IVF / donor egg babies’. Why should they? That is private stuff, right?  Except that not telling, pretending that you didn’t have help not only seems dishonest, but it is as if there is something to be ashamed about, and there absolutely isn’t.

 So, I am torn. A part of me wants them to be honest about the fact that conceiving naturally in your forties is not easy, and the other part recognizes their (and their children’s*!) need for privacy.

 What do you think? Do you think these older celeb moms owe us any form of honesty about how difficult it is to conceive later on in life, or don’t they owe us anything?  And when you answer, would you mind telling me whether you are infertile or not, I would be interested to hear if that affects your answer or not.

 (My dear friend Orange and I were supposed to blog about this together, but having zero impulse control she went ahead and did it without me.  Tired old ‘ho that she is. Go read her post as well before you give me your answer)

 * I have a high profile friend whose children were carried by surrogate.  She doesn’t speak about it. Not because she is ashamed or wants to keep it a secret, but because she says it is not just her story to tell, this affects her children too. When her kids are old enough to be able to process what all of this means, then it is up to them and her to tell or not tell.  I totally understand and respect that.

 

Comments

[Laura(southernxyl)]

Not infertile here.

And BTW, on my 43rd birthday my mom emailed me that both of my grandmothers had babies at 43. Seventh child for one, eighth for the other, and I promise they did nothing special to make that happen.

I understand what you're saying about women seeing these older celebrity moms and not understanding about declining fertility. Women are lied to all the time, about all kinds of things. You don't have to age. You aren't attractive to anyone if you are overweight. You can give 100% to your career and 100% to your family and a happy, stress-free, carefree life. It's just more noise we have to ignore when we live our normal, non-celebrity, non-glamorous lives. I think the kids' privacy (if they manage to have a shred of it somehow) comes before the moms' blurting all.

[lala]

infertile 26 yr old with poor egg quality
i personally feel infertility is a major problem and the more people talk about it the better (although this is just my opinion and each to their own)
ive actually asked my other friends and family who are 20 and 21 to please go to a gyneacologist and have themselves checked (they have very irregular periods)i wish someone told me its not always that easy to fall pregnant! i know ladies(girls?) at university who have been told they need to freeze their eggs because they dont have enough!

my point i dont think its only about older women i think everyone needs a wake up call about infertility because lets face it 1 in 5 couples is alot of ppl!
lala

[Cricket]

Yeah, I recently turned 44 and have to psychologically give up the ghost, whilst simultaneously not be angry at myself for waiting so late to have #1 at age 35. Even with my science training, a decade ago I really didn't realize the hard facts.

I know celebs don't come clean (like I really wish they would, but I'd be rather private in their position, too, if I had to go around with lightbulbs flashing in my face all the time and magazines writing me up), but at least in the past few years, there has been an overall better awareness of/publicity about fertility rates by age. A decade ago, ART was going to save us, so we didn't need to worry. I think the knowledge is more broad now.

[Janna]

23-year-old, no idea whether she's fertile/infertile

I think celeb moms have perhaps more of a responsibility to tell the world if they successfully used IVF/donor eggs/whatever. There's no question that celebrities have influence on the general population, and I think that gives them a responsibility to use their influence for the purposes of education, etc.

As for their children and what that means to them, let's not forget that the children should be educated about this too! If the parents keep it a total secret, the kids might grow up thinking, "I've got plenty of time to have kids - I know because my mom had me at 45 with no problems!"

[meg]

33-year-old, no idea about fertility.

"Many of us (quite obviously ME excluded) don’t go around telling people ‘oh these were IVF / donor egg babies’."

No, but you also don't wrangle a "People" cover story for yourself in which you gush about how wonderful your babies are and how glad you are that you waited until you were 110% ready and had found your path, etc. etc. I do think there's a difference. If you're talking about the celebrity parents that are very private and circumspect about their children, that's one thing, but the ones that aren't do, I think, owe the sisterhood some answers. If you're going to throw away privacy for attention, then don't try to tell me that you shouldn't have to answer certain questions.

I greatly appreciate the fact that, to give one example, Courtney Cox was so open and forthright about what she had to go through in order to get pregnant and carry to term, not the least because I think her experience - needing to take baby aspirin and the like - could help a lot of women who can't necessarily afford unlimited cycles of IVF. And Jane Seymour's stories of having to have her husband administer injections while she was wearing a ball gown at a fancy event were rather touching. In neither case did I feel as though I were experiencing TMI.

Now, all that having been said, I know that there are some women who easily get pregnant when they're closer to 50 than 40. I also know of some happily married couples who had sex on the first date. However, I think that, in both cases, you need to operate off of the assumption that that is not the *majority* experience, and plan things accordingly based on what's more important to you. I'm single, and while I'm not unhappy to be so, I know that, based on my family history, I don't have lots of fertile years left. Since my early 20s, I have made decisions primarily aimed at allowing me to live a comfortable life and advance professionally rather than aimed at maximizing my chances of getting married, and I'm in the midst of another one of those moves now. I also know that I'm not a good candidate for solo-from-the-beginning single parenthood. I may freeze my eggs or I may adopt if needs be, but I am cognizant of the fact that my personal schedule for finding a mate may preclude easy (or any) conception. I'm not saying I'll be celebrating if I meet the love of my life and then can't have bio-kids, but I won't be surprised. I have a bad feeling, though, that some of the women I know who tell me, "33? You have plenty of time!" may be unpleasantly surprised one of these days, which is sad.

[Gudrun]

Celebrities, like all other people, have a right to choose what to reveal about their personal lives. Because of their high visibility and influence, my opinion is that they should be more direct/honest so that they don't mislead people (whether it be in regard to in/fertility, cosmetic procedures, lifestyle choices, or whatever). But again, they are people with a right to privacy too.

I'm an infertile (subfertile?) 35-year-old with a 17-month-old from ART. My husband and I (mostly my husband) are very 'in the closet' around our friends and family about our infertility.

[21stCenturyMom]

I think how and when you have a child ain't nobody's business but your own ("you" being you and the father if one is involved) and your child's . If celebrities could help it they might not even let on that they were having a child at all.

Movie stars are not responsible for the choices other people make in their lives. You could say that everything they do is misleading - their weight, their great looks, who they are (because the public tends to think that actors are who they play). That isn't their fault. They like acting and are successful at it and the public has decided that it has the right to pry into the private lives of the people who entertain them. We also demand that female actors be very thin and look young forever so they oblige through a series of medical manipulations and crazy eating habits.

I personally don't think that the public's assumed right to know puts an implicit burden on the stars to tell it like it is. They have as much right to privacy with respect to their children as anyone else.

Just my 2 cents.

I'm sort of surprised that a lot of women don't know that fertility decreases with age. That information seems like it is put out in the news constantly - mostly by judgemental creeps who don't support infertility treatments. But that's a different issue, isn't it?

[Anne]

I come at ART from a slightly different angel than most; Hubby has a vasectomy so IVF was a work around for us. In many way I think that has made it easier for me to be open about things - hey I wasn't the one with the "problem". Who knows if I would have felt differently after months of peeing on sticks, tests, treatments, and no baby yet. I understand why clebs do speak up, but like you I feel the more we are open about this the less stigma will be attached, the more we will realize that this happens to a lot of couples, maybe insurance will be pressured to provided more coverage, ect..

[heather]

i'm pretty open about out IF journey. i have pcos and we waited 6 yrs of ttc before attempting IVF and were lucky enough to get pg on the 2nd try with an FET. i do think they should acknowledge some kind of help, even if they don't give specifics. i read your friend orange's post and the whole marcia cross thing kind of shocked me a bit in that she's due in april...that seems a little early to breaking the news to the world. i'm due in feb and only 17 wks tomorrow...unless she's due at the beginning of april, she's still in the first TM. maybe it was that gossip piece about them leaving an IF clinic that prompted them to come out, or the fact that the new TV season is about to start (any publicity is good publicity). i've read similar blog entries lately naming julia roberts as another one of these "older" moms that had twins and never a mention of ART...hmmmm. i have a few friends that are ttc and having trouble and i feel so bad for them bc so much of their journey is traveled in silence. i totally understand that it's hard for a lot of people to talk about IF. i have no trouble talking about it and i hope that by doing so, i'm helping others feel that someone understands them or maybe might feel comfortable sharing their journey with me (just so they can share it with someone if they need to).

[Liza]

I too think it depends on how in-your-face the celeb is with their pregnancy, baby/ies, etc. If it's someone who tries to keep their life and their child's life very private and isn't always giving interviews about their daily existence, hell yes they have a right to privacy. If it's someone who voluntarily does huge spreads featuring them and their child/ren who were miraculously born to their 44-year-old self and their 60-some-year-old husband, then I think they willingly forfeit that right and should give people an explanation. Maybe with donor eggs they'd want to wait until the child was old enough to understand about it, but they could at least admit to having used ART.

[Jul]

Hmmn... a very intriguing topic and a very sticky wicket. I tend to agree with the posters who said that it all depends on the celebrity's individual media-whore quotient: whether or not they're appearing on the cover of "Us Weekly" with their little designer-onesie-clad offspring.

Another question: is it JUST celebs who are feeding this trend ("I can have babies whenever I want!")? Do other individuals who might influence it have an obligation to speak out? I work with some very driven, very powerful, very wealthy women... a disproportionate number of whom never had kids. I'll tell you what, I'm SURE not all of them wound up child-free by choice... it's just not something which is ever discussed, however.

[SarahD]

I'm a 30 year old, have had problems but I'm not married, so no pregnancy attempts yet.

I know it certainly strikes us all with incurable curiosity when, say, Geena Davis gets pregnant for the first time at 48. With twins. Without the honesty about their methods, I think it does cause a false sense of security in length of fertility, when it should be saying, "With limitless money and world-famous doctors, you can probably have a baby after 40. Maybe."

Most women, especially after 25, know they're "expiring" as it were. God knows I can't get away from young women spouting about how lucky they are to get pregnant so early because if they'd "just waited a few more years..." which inevitably ends up being my age (ARGH!). We've all read the literature, we've all seen the scary charts.

Whom it really fools, I think, are the men. They don't get read the expiration riot act from their early 20s and they think they have forever to settle down with us. When you gently remind them that, no, honey, it cost them $100k to get pregnant at that age and there's no guarantees, they're astonished. They really have no idea that every single one of those celebrities need help.

[Jo]

Interesting thread! This is a bit of a buggaboo, and I am a little conflicted about this topic because yes, celebs are entitled to some privacy, but yes, failing to mention they used donor eggs also reinforces that notion that we can all just wait until we're 45 to have our families. (And hello? These ladies who are having TWINS almost certainly used DE!) I agree with the distinction between the media-whores and the otherwise private celebs. I am most perplexed by the ones who insist they used their own eggs (wasn't that Cheryl Tiegs? Used a surrogate too, and was damn near 50? I have one word: LIAR!).

As a mom to twins conceived through DE/DS IVF at age 43 (they were born when I was 44), I find that now that the girls are here, I am less likely to just blurt out to anyone that I used donor eggs -- because now it is information that belongs to these two little girls as much as it belongs to me (if not more) -- but when I have conversations with women of a certain age who are trying to get pregnant, and they start to take hope for their chances in my example (I know the look -- I remember how much I clung to success stories when I was TTC!), then I am quick to disclose. I disclose partly to give them a reality check, but also to let them know that donor egg is a wonderful option. I say a silent thank-you to my donor on a regular basis for helping bring these marvelous little girls into my life.

Interesting (at least to me) aside: I don't really think of myself as infertile. I tried for 2.5 years (many IUIs, injections, and 2 IVFs with all sorts of immune treatments, and, oh yeah, a miscarriage at 9 weeks) before moving on to DE, had low FSH, great linings, all systems go, but still no baby. I figure my official diagnosis was TDO. Too. Damn. Old. Just plain waiting too long. Wish I had known better.

By the way, it is definitely easier for a woman who has other children to conceive in her 40's than for a woman who has never had a child. So you also can't take much hope in women (even in your own family) having children in their 40's if they weren't first children. These celebrity moms we're talking about are having FIRST children in their mid to late 40's. Different ballgame entirely.

[Pam]

I'm going to be 46 in two weeks and because of my "advanced" age, my husband and I will be using donor eggs to conceive our first child. I didn't conciously wait to have children, I didn't meet the man I was going to marry until I was 38. Because of outside circumstance, we weren't able to start thinking of conceiving until I was 42. If we could conceive on our own, without fear of medical abnormalities and such, I'd be first in line to try. As it it, now that I've had fibroids removed, my husband wants to try once more (November) just to see if we can. I've given him the statistics, but he wants us to try, just once, then we'll move on to IVF and DE. When we started with Clomid and moved to Gonal-F during the first 2 years of TTC, I didn't respond very well. So, I'm not overly confident this will work. A very close personal friend has offered to be our donor, so it will come out at some point in our children's lives how they were conceived.

It's hard to say if celebrities are the only ones to perpetuate the myth that women in their mid 40s and older can conceive with their own eggs. Sure there is that 5% of women who will, but are they all in that group? I think there are people out there who have used ART but are, in a sense, embarrassed by their methods of conception and choose not to tell anyone, including their families, how they've conceived. I think the ladies of the blogworld are in a class by themselves. We want to make sure that someone else doesn't go through what we may have gone through in our stuggles to conceive, so by putting it all out there, we may help someone else.

And I have to agree with Jo. I don't really consider myself infertile. My eggs are just too old. :)

[Suz]

Recovering Infertile
Two IVF's
7 month twin boys (identical)

I'm not sure that celebrities owe us an explanation of how they conceived their kids; however, they do owe us honesty. It's simple. Don't lie. Don't talk about how lucky you are or how your aunt-so-and-so had twins so they "run in your family" if you pursued infertility treatments. Don't put your pregancy and family in the spotlight, with magazine covers and Oprah interviews, if you have to lie about it.

[gkk]

Seriously, this has had a lot of coverage for a lot of years now - if you haven't realised fertility decreases with age then you must have been deliberately avoiding the information. Celebs also have perfect skin at 40 and perky boobs at 50, but I know they're not natural either. I don't think there is a duty of disclosure but I DO think blatant lying is wrong. As for Marcia Cross, she is either totally naive or (my personal opinion) lying about her EDD - I'm 9w5d and due April 12, very early to be giving a magazine interview.

[Laura(southernxyl)]

Good luck to you, Pam.

[edithmae]

I want to wholeheartedly agree with your friend who doesn't speak about how her children were conceived and carried. My circumstances are different--I conceived as a single woman with donor sperm from a friend--and not many people know who the "father" is of my little guy or how he was conceived. This story is not just mine; it's my son's too, and I want respect his privacy until he's ready to talk about it more openly. I think our stories of how our children came to be ours are private, whether you are a celebrity or not. For me, it comes down to respecting your children's right to privacy.

That said, I see your point about creating a false sense of security and creating awareness about these issues. There are no easy answers here because we are all have a right to privacy when we want it. Sadly, the stimga attached to infertility makes people keep a lot of secrets.

[Foster]

26, assumed fertile (have yet to ttc). May I just say that I love the phrase "assumed fertile"? Sounds so much better than "I dont know, havent tried yet". Says that, only shorter, and I do assume that Im fertile. Anyway.

HOLY SHIT NOW I FEEL MY EGGS WHITHERING AWAY LIKE A WRINKLED OLD WOMAN INSIDE ME, THANKS A LOT EVERYONE. Yanno, the timing of this post is ironic as just this weekend, dh's and mine's plan of ttcing in one year got pushed back to 2 years, which broke my heart. I pointed out to him that we are about to become members of a statistically significant, and growing, percentage of people who put off childbearing until their (or damn near their) 30s b/c of education & financial reasons. Because he is going to finish his undergrad degree, we just cannot afford it. Like anyone who cannot control when they meet Mr. Right (which is everyone, lol), I cannot control the fact that we are where we are. There is no choice about his schooling; it is now or never. The only thing movable is conception. I dont know how many people get to start ttcing when they want to, but I would like to know. I bet it's less people than we assume. I know that went off in an askew direction, but that is my general thought about people who shoot for conception at a "later" date, cuz, yanno what? Much like assumed fertility, assumed age of conception can get yanked out from under you.

Ahem. As for celebrities, it is not my business to know how or why or from where their children came just as it is not my business about the people down the street. It is only mine as much as they make it mine. The history is only theirs. Maybe they dont want their kids to know they are not genetically related. Can we assume this is b/c of shame? Certainly not. Maybe I wouldnt want my own donor egg child to know that she is not totally "mine". I know and you know "mine" is not always black and white, but kids think differently than we do. I see no shame in donor eggs or sperm, but I dont think the truth should always be revealed to them just because someone else thinks it should be. It is a family decision, and the last time I checked, I am the mother of none of them.

As for revealing the facts of age related fertility issues, I think this is a huge failing on the part of the medical profession, NOT the freaking media!!! If your gynocologist does not reveal to you at some time that, hey, your chances of conception dissapear at such and such a time, then shame on them! Im sorry, but educating women about their own health falls squarely on the shoulders of doctors, not US Weekly!!!!

[Sheridan]

Hey T, can I add that a woman's fertility actually starts to decline at 27, and then declines very rapidly at about 35-37!

It is a pet peeve of mine that this is not communicated to woman better. Tell the girls in schools. 'Don't leave it too late! Its not as easy as it looks!'

So, yes, I think that celebrities should be honest. And perhaps especially the ones in their 30s who are having problems. That would make people sit up and take notice.

From a 34 year old infertile who wishes she hadn't waited so long.....

[Orange]

One of the commenters at my blog gave me a link to a USA Today interview with Marcia Cross, in which she candidly said that women her age aren't too fertile, and that donor eggs are a great option (which she used).

[jodie]

I agree with Sheridan in that we should be educating girls about this at school, or in college. I don't think celebs should have to tell how they conceived, it's totally their business. If we were all educated enough about it we'd probably guess that a good proportion of older celebrities have had assistance. I

That said, we can't always jumpt to conclusions just because we know some stats. My sister is 40 and infertile. Her first child was conceived after years of IVF treatments. She has just naturally conceived her second at 40 after 8 years of no contraception. And I'd had to think everyone was making assumptions about that. Not that she would be ashamed of treatment or egg donation - both are wonderful gifts and IVF gave her her first child. But I hate it when people assume they know something about you, a stranger, when they have no idea.

[Jeanne]

I was married at a young age. We never used birth control, and it took me 5 years to get pregnant for the frist time. I then proceeded to have a number of miscarriages. I had surgery and then was able to stay pregnant. I now have a son.

Before I became pregnant, I knew nothing of miscarriages nor infertility. I was angry to learn that, while society tells us to wait until we are financially secure, each year our fertility decreases slightly. Then rapidly when we reach a certain age.

I wish that society spent more time telling us about infertility.

[Em]

I'm not infertile.

I stopped reading the comments because I started feeling peer pressure so I wanted to get my opinion out before it changed ;-).

IMO, anyone's personal body is no one else's business. That goes for disease, sexual orientation, addictions, medical conditions. I don't think anyone owes anyone an explanation regarding how they have handled their own personal/medical issues.

While I think people should know more about their own reproductive systems (own bodies overall), I don't think its Hollywood's job to educate us (God help us all if they did!). It might be nice to hear the whole truth and to have one step up to remind women to educate themselves (for example - what Brooke Shields did for PPD - told her own story, didn't try to make it everyone's story but got the word out there).

Celebrities, unfortunatly, do seem to influence how people view their own choices and while infertility is certainly one important topic that they could start being honest about and therefore educate people, I could name many many more.

[sara]

Semi-fertile? (took longer than average, plus miscarriages?)

I was 30 when I had my first, nearly 34 when I had my 2nd.

I think the message of declining fertility is out there, has always been out there. "Old" women have a hard time getting pregnant. "Old" women can't have babies. Time was, when most women were married and mothers by 20, that most of them had "left off bearing" by their mid-30's (STATISTICALLY! I know everyone knows *someone* who had six kids starting at 35, but they were the exception to the statistic).

I think, though, that that knowledge is clashing with the message of the media and of the plastic surgery and fitness industries, that it is possible to look young and feel young FOREVER. Poeple point to celebrities and say "She doesn't look a day over 40!" Everyone's goal is to freeze themselves at 29.

ALl well and good, but people think that somehow *looking* 29 means all your inner workings are the same as a 29 year old. Um, no. Botox doesn't reach your ovaries. That facelift only did your skin, not your pituitary and your other hormone-producing bits. Important parts of your body don't *know* that you have the ass of a 29-year-old supermodel and the face of a 31-year old. They just know that you were born 41 years ago and you've had your period every 28 days since you were 12 and that makes for a whole lotta eggs under the bridge...

And then these celebrities "Whoops! Twins! At 45! Wow, what a surprise! Help? Of course not! I'm YOUNG! and FIT!" They perpetuate the idea that keeping the outside young will keep the inside just as young. They sell the lie that the fitness/fashion/surgery industry wants to have us all beleive.