Lolita culture

Warning: Contents of a sexual nature – family members STRONGLY advised not to read any further.

V v interesting comment I got, the response to the shaved cooter post. A reader raised the issue about shaving one’s bits and how this relates to the fact that our society seems to have a Lolita culture.

For those of you who know what this means, please forgive the rather simplistic explanation, but for those of you who don’t, Lolita is the title of a v controversial book written in 1955, about a guy who becomes sexually obsessed with a prepubescent girl. The term ‘Lolita’ is now part of our modern language and refers to a sexually attractive young adolescent, or the sexual attraction towards an adolescent female. The Lolita culture refers to how we ‘sexualize’ young girls today.

It was a v interesting point, and one that caused a bit of a reaction among some people. 

Funnily enough, before I decided to shave my bits, I thought exactly the same thing. That it feeds into the Lolita thing and that is something I am dead against. I am very very anti the sexualization of children. I find it completely abhorrent. Now, I don’t like to knock other people’s parenting, but I do have to say that I do not agree, AT ALL, with dressing young girls in a ‘sexy’ way. I don’t like it. I find it completely inappropriate. I think dressing little girls up in a sexy way most definitely feeds into the Lolita culture and that scares me.

Having said that, I have to tell you that shaving / waxing ones’ bits has absolutely nothing what so ever to do with the Lolita thing. At least not for me and for the people I have spoken to. I am quite sure that just as there are sick people in every single facet of life, there might be people who DO associate hairless cooters with young girls, however I believe this is by far the minority. 

People remove their body hair for various reasons. There are some people that do it for religious reasons – if I am not mistaken, the Muslim people do this. People do it for hygiene reasons, for aesthetic reasons, and then people do it for sexual reasons. Like I did. (Bloody hell, is there any thing I do NOT discuss on my blog)

Shaving one’s bits is not about wanting to look like a little girl – there is absolutely nothing about my body that looks like a little girl. I promise you that. I look like a woman. An (almost) 37 year old, been through the mill, woman. 

Shaving is about many things; it’s about the statement, about intent, it’s about willingness and about boldness – that’s huge on a sexual level. It’s about a level of sexual confidence that is absolutely appealing to one’s partner. It is also hugely visual, and for people are who are into the whole visual thing, it is obviously a massive turn on.

Do you get that? Have I explained it well enough? It’s a mental thing, a statement that says one is sexually confident, not shy of one’s body. For me, and for the people I have spoken to (and that includes a few men), that is the sexual part, the confidence thing, the bold thing, the visual thing, they were horrified when I mentioned the Lolita link. 

I totally understand the reader’s concern that it feeds into the Lolita culture, because I share, or at least used to share, that concern. But I can assure you that for most of the people I know, it has absolutely nothing to do with that at all.

To be perfectly honest, I think dressing young girls up in a sexy / sexual way feeds into the Lolita culture in a far more insidious and significant way. I think that is a real area of concern. I don’t like it at all, I certainly wont be dressing my young daughter in clothes that in any way play to that aberration. I don’t think its cute, I certainly don’t think it is appropriate at all. Little girls should be little girls, devoid of and completely separate to any sexual innuendo what so ever.

So, what are your thoughts on this? 

Comments

[Alana]

I didn't see an option for me in the poll so I thought I'd respond here. Years ago I did shave my hoo-haw per my boyfriends request. I shaved it completely and i have to say I HATED it. Two reasons: 1. I suddenly felt (and looked) like a 10 year old girl and the thought of him liking that just freaked me out and 2. When the hair sytarted growing back (in a matter of days) the itching was SOOOO bad it felt like I had a bad VD. I haven't done THAT again although I do still prune the hedges from time to time for neatness.

[Bridgette]

I guess I never associated one with the other. I'm really not sure why shaving an area of the body could be related to an inappropriate atraction to young girls.

I have a teenage daughter, and she just recently started wearing t-shirts where just a teeny bit of her belly shows, and I'm not even happy about that. Dressing little girls in a sexy way is very wrong to me. They will have to grow up soon enough, so why rush it?

Now, I have a few questions about the whole "shaving ones bits" thing. Do you shave or wax? What products do you use? How often do you have to do maintenance? Am v curious about this. I like keeping that area clean, but its alot of work.

[blackbird]

I am with you, in more ways than one.
And I think you've explained it very well.

[cheryl b.]

The reason I used to wax (oh I wish I still could) and keep it so short now is because sex feels better (for me at least) without all that hair getting pulled. It's also much better for oral, Mark doesn't have to fight through a jungle. I always left a "runway" when I waxed though, I liked the way it looked much better. I've tried Nair's bikini stuff but it gave me ingrown hairs for some reason. So sad, I love me a smooth cootchie.

[Michelle]

Although I responded to your poll with "distasteful and innapropriate", I would say I think it is more "silly and unattractive." I don't like the fact that this is part of what the standard of beauty is now in our culture. If you look in Playboy now, all the women look the same: bleached blond, skinny but with huge fake boobs, and shaved cooters with the little racing stripe. I don't find any of that attractive, neither does my husband. It is not really the little girl thing that bothers me, (although I have thought about that) but it is more that a woman in her natural state is not considered attractive. Shaving is just part of it - it is also the obsessive dieting to the point of absurd thinness, surgical enhancement (don't get me started about fake boobs - they are just gross to me), etc. It all goes together in my mind.

[Jillian]

Just for personal information on the shaving... you might want to pick up some 'Bikini Zone'. It's a gel that is available here, however, not sure about SA. It keeps the bits from itching once it starts to grow back. It also helps with razor burn in such an unfortunate area.

[wheelomatic]

I was one of the few people who expressed uneasiness with looking like a prepubecent and therefore unwilling to go completely bare down there. I have tried shaving a couple of times to please a partner and besides the annoying upkeep, the idea that my partner liked the "baby" look was not a turn on for me.

But after reading your post, I can see that maybe that was on me, not him. Perhaps he did not see my nekkid cooter as anything but a clean workspace. But the stubble and my niggling neuroses still keep me unwilling to remove all the hair there.

I do let my fiance (different guy than before) keep it cropped close. He likes it that way for all those good sexual reasons, he can see everything and oral is way better for both of us. It is a good compromise for me. I still feel "all grown up" and his trimming me is a fun and loving foreplay game.

[Anna]

I've tried shaving but hate the itchies that inevitably followed, so I usually shave with my husband's electric trimmer (for head hair). I kind of wind up with a crew cut, but it's soft and increases the sensitivity for me, and my husband likes it lots. To each her own!

[Alley_uk]

I have been shaving the old coot for years which definately started out as a sexual thing (for me) as I found that the sensations were better that way. After doing it for so long I can't not do it. I have come to hate having hair anywhere other than on my head - and in small amounts above my eyes - other than that it all has to go.

There are definately people out there who are demented enough to see this as a sexual statement about pre-puberty but these same people are likely to associate many other everyday types of things with something equally disturbing of a sexual nature.

There are some things that we have control over. How we perceive our bodies and our we chose to present them to those close to us is one of those things.

Besides, it's not like we're gonna be showing just anyone - right Tertia? :-)

A

[Jessy]

Before I leave the world's longest comment, I should say that I get that a completely shaved cooter can enhance sexual feeling and some women DO like the way it looks, and if you're doing it for YOURSELF, that is fine. The problem is that I think society has told women through porn and advertising that it is not OKAY, not ATTRACTIVE to have a lot of hair down there.

I don't think men like it hairless because they associate it CONSCIOUSLY with pre-pubescent girls, but that subconsciously we, as a society, are moving towards sexualizing the LOOK of pre-pubescent girls. With the exception of pedophiles, no one finds a 10 year old girl sexually attractive - but we ARE telling adult women that it is not okay to look like you have aged more than a few years past puberty. Big boobs are ok (they're the exception), but your hips and thighs should be streamlined not curvey, your legs/underarms/cooter/etc. should be mostly hairless, no wrinkles allowed, cover up that gray...

I don't think any normal guy would think "hey, if I got my girlfriend to shave, she'd look more like a 10 year old!" But we have been taught in the last century that we need to hide any and all signs of aging past teenager-hood. This issue is about women not feeling like they can "let themselves go" even to the point of aging naturally, and it is what drive the botox/hair dye/plastic surgery industry.

That is the part about it that I don't like - that it is not acceptable to be a 40 year old that looks like a 40 year old.

[MFA Mama]

1. How does shaving one's cooter contribute to the Lolita culture if said cooter is not in the public eye (i.e. a star of stage and screen)? My husband and my OBGYN are the only people who see mine, and I think both of them are pretty clear on not having sex with prepubescent girls.
2. I do it for hygeine reasons...much nicer when on the rag not to have...anything...get caught, or...stuck...ewwwww I can't believe I'm discussing this. Moving on.
3. If shaving one's cooter encourages one's significant other to have sex with said shaved, consenting adult cooter, then that is ANTI-Lolita, is it not?

[ASM]

I agree with Jessy - that for some people I can't help but feel the attraction is something we're subconsciously pushed towards. But then again, I like the triangle look on women. It's what I associate with the female sex. And speaking as someone whose bush will extend out onto my thighs and stomach if allowed to run free, even getting the triangle look involves a hella lot of pruning in the first place! *g*

As for cleanliness and pleasure during sex as they relate to shaving, I guess I can play the asexuality card and say I care not one whit. Heh.

[MFA Mama]

Two things:
1. I misspelled "hygiene." How embarassing. Please know that I DO know better
and
2. I took the poll and was shocked to find that "hygiene" is in the minority. Huh. Come on, people, can't let "sexual reasons" win. Vote hygiene!

[Heather]

I had never really thought about shaving down there being associated with young girls. I, however, have never shaved down there. For a couple of reasons. Number one, I always heard that without hair down there you were more susceptible to infections. Secondly I would be afraid of cutting myself if I shaved. I can't imagine that would feel good. Finally would be the itch when the hair grows back in and the constant up keep.

However, that said, just because it is not for me does not mean that it doesn't "work" for someone else. Whatever makes you feel confident about yourself.

[Amy]

I do the nearly bare. I can't do the totally nude thing although my husband would like me too. I don't find it creepy that he likes it. He is, as you said, a very visual guy and he likes the look of it. I don't think that means he is attracted to pre-pubescents or anything. But I don't like the bald thing. I found it made me feel less womanly and less sexy. The landingstrip works well for us. The sensation of being nearly naked down there though is a big reason why I do it. It definitely increases sesativity and makes my husband that much more adventerous. I think for the vast majority of men it isn't the lotita thing. I am sure there are some sickies out there though that get off on that aspect of it.

[wanda]

My husband likes it when I shave mine, and he enjoys shaving his peter area, too. However, I should note (for those who haven't tried it) that when you are both shaved, it's not really as much fun...think sticky, sweaty skin. Turns out the hair does serve a useful purpose - not exactly lubrication, but a gliding surface of sorts.

[Aurora]

Yes yes yes...to all those things. I, for one, have mine completely bare. Partly because my husband likes it like that (mostly because the hair gets in the way of fun things) and partly to feel sexy and desirable about at least one part of my body (ha ha ha). I think the smoothness offers a more sensitive experience and the sexiness is, well...sexy.

Never considered the Lolita idea at all...never even entered my mind.

[heck no]

What's the big deal? Why does it have to be a statement of anything? Why can't it just be less stuff to clean? As an experiment, go for a few mile run unshaven and go for a run shaved and then have a smell. ESpecially at that time of the month.

[Kay]

I shaved "all the way" ONCE - I let dh do it on our honeymoon. I hated the way it looked. I didn't feel like a woman anymore. More like a little girl. It could have to do with the fact that I'm a bit pudgy, though. I've seen some bald cooters on porn stars and they look OK and not little girl. Maybe it was the shock of seeing myself so different than I was for the past million years. I like to keep the area shaved on the sides and in the "fun" zone - with a landing strip that I can see from the front.

Dh does the same - shaves his area pretty close.

[Katy]

I've never really thought about it in the Lolita way. I don't shave down there near enough and it's more often than not a jungle! If I had the money and the guts I'd get it waxed but I did it once myself and owwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww I nearly had to live with the strip stuck down there forever! Not v sexy.

[Judy]

Taking the easy way out here - I have boys and am sooooo glad to not have to worry about dressing them too hoochie-ish!

[Danie'L]

I had mine shaved for years then all the sudden one day my DH decided he wanted me to "grow it out" for a bit, just for a diffrent look. If I could I would get get it all lasered off and never worry about razor burn, ingrown hairs or iritated skin ever agian.

I dont get why people think its gross or weird, you shave your legs and underarms dont you?

I happen to shave my arms too, some people think thats weird too, I dont get it.

[Tonya]

With consenting adults... I say whatever floats your boat!

As for the sexualization of children, I have to share this experience: in the spring I was shopping for PJs for my almost-3 year old daughter (at Target), and I stumbled upon this section of negligees and nightgowns going down to size FOUR for very young girls! They were gauzy, see-through, with satin and mirabou fluff edging and totally sexualized. I was mortified. There is NO WAY I would ever buy anything like that for my tween, let alone someone who had not even started grade school yet! I agree, let girls be girls without the whole sexual innuendo factor thrown in. Why shrink childhood any more than it already has?

[me]

That is SO interesting that you bring this up. I was just thinking today while on a walk about the over-sexualization of children in our society.

However, I shave my cooter. For the longest time (actually before you posted this) I thought maybe I WAS weird, because I had not heard of any of my contemporaries doing the same. I didn't leave my email because you never know which family member is going to google my email address. :) You know who I am though. I totally agree - my guy likes the feel of no hair there, and I like it better too. And it's much less messy.

I think people should be less concerned about women shaving their twats and more concerned about the Abercrombie and Fitch shirts that make a 10 year old look like Paris Hilton. Ew.

Just a thought.

R

[Ninotchka]

Interesting...I never made the Lolita connection. I've always seen "trimming the hedge" as an aesthetic/taking care of yourself thing. Just the same as shaving your legs, underarms, etc.

[allison]

I agree with you...I don't really think it has to do with the sexualization of young girls. lots of women shave their armpits and legs...is this to look like little girls? I think it's more an asthetic thing, just liking the look of smooth skin.

I used to wax down there and liked how it looked and felt, but don't really have the time or money to do so anymore. luckily, my husband doesn't care one way or the other and I'm not terribly hairy to begin with. but I say whatever floats your boat.

[Adina]

Thank you Tertia! You summed it all up very well. I trim, sometimes shave, and I was surprised that even completely clean shaven down there...I DON'T look like a prepubescent girl. I just don't. I look like a 31 year old with a shaved crotch. So that argument has never held water for me. Truthfully - I think that if men are into young girls - then me and my dimpled butt shaving isn't gonna get him off. I am still too much of a grown woman for that one thing to work. {{shrug}} If it works for you, enjoy it! If it doesn't, then don't. Same with shaving anywhere else, piercing anything or tattoing. Now, I just have to figure out how to shave/trim once this pregnant belly gets bigger...LOL

[Lisa Lisa]

I don't see how your shaved pubic region could possibly feed into the whole Lolita thing... unless you go around showing it to people on the street. You're not doing that, are you?!?! Seriously, though, I agree that dressing children provocatively is much more disturbing. Even if you're shaving because your husband thinks it makes you look like a young girl and is turned on by that, I don't see the problem. What goes on behind your bedroom door is no one's business but yours and his.

[DoctorMama]

I think the best argument against it being a Lolita-obsession is that the men are doing it too. Just check out the porn sites -- they're all getting smooth there, and it definitely doesn't look prepubertal. (More Martian.) I see a fair number of male patients who run into difficulties relating to hair removal down there -- their bits are a lot harder to maneuver around!
I just wish I had time for the upkeep on my property.

[Terri (Moms Over 30)]

I too am a shaved bits kinda gal who at first thought it was sort of wrong. Now I am free!!!!

Well..until I have a doc appointment then I let it grow out a bit. Just feel wierd him poking around there when I look like a plucked chicken.

[MFA Mama]

Totally off-subject...what do South Africans think of America's bumblings in Iraq? Today is "Veteran's Day" over here and I just finished ranting about it on my blog...just how much of an international ass are we making of ourselves, in your opinion? I'd love to hear your take on the issue since you won't sugar-coat it or be overly "beige."

[Orange]

My initial reason for shaving? The other ladies were doing it. Seriously—a few bloggers mentioned shaving, and it seemed so reasonable I thought I'd give it a shot a few months ago.

It never itches. Never! It does make me think about my bits more often, and—this could be a coincidence—I've been having sex more these last few months. (Yay for me!) My husband had expressed no opinion on the shaving, but now that I've bought an electric bikini-zone trimmer and asked him to tidy things up for me, he's getting into the idea. (Just haven't had the time for a shaving session with him yet.)

I hardly have anything that could be called a period anymore (Yay for the Mirena!), but MFA Mama is right—chunks of uterine lining clinging to pubes is kinda icky.

[Jane-Marie]

Shaved makes for easier access - DH loves! I don't think its got anything to do with the Lolita fetish. I keep a little hair up top and nothing about me looks like a little girl. Keeps it cleaner as well.

[Mama-Bean]

Have been shaving the hoo-haw since puberty.. at least the "fun area" ( god that commentor made me laugh!) I like to think of my look as a nice bald with a fun toupee ( how do you spell that??). Against product recommendations, I NAIR ALL hair from pubic bone...um... back, like once a month or so. I shave the "fun area" daily to keep it smooth ( really not a big deal). I started shaving there when I was 14, and it was simply because I felt very very dirty in that area around AF time, and being hairless made me feel "cleaner". Just never stopped.
RE: dressing your children.... I couldn't agree more. I have a hard time going shopping now and seeing in the Malls all these stores with miniature (loose and slutty) adult clothing all over the racks.. what am I going to do when my 1 year old is ready for 13 year old clothes, and all they have are daisy dukes and half shirts??? I better brush up on my sewing skills... as it is she will probably end up at private school or home school because of the rampant immporality in schools these days.... our high school has 7 pregnant girls, the youngest being 14!!!! Scary.

[Wylie]

T - the poll doesn't leave room for folks who trim, or give it a brush cut, like me. . .

[andrea]

Oh, you just hit on my pet peeve - little girls dressed like big ones - I HATE IT!

[Charmaine]

Definately shave for my own personal reasons and the last thing my husband sees me as is a young girl. I did it for myself and it certainly makes sex better in my opinion. If I thought my husband considered it as a young girl look I wouldn't be married to him. There are sickos in all walks of life and just as I shave my armpits and legs I choose to shave there too. I just feel cleaner. And anyone who has only tried it once, the itch goes away.

[Franziska]

Just wanted to bring a different aspect into the debate - different cultures. I am German living in the US and I noticed a big difference hair-wise. Most german women don't shave at all, and if they shave, its only legs. I do shave/wax my legs, but thats it. I tried to shave my armpits once and it was so itchy and burning, I gave it up right then. Plus, my husband said its a little-girls-look and he doesn't find that attractive. So there are at least some men out there who DO make the connection between shaving and sexualizing little girls.

I think Jessy put it very well, that the idea of beauty is changing towards a pre-adolescent look, and that makes me extremely uncomfortable. Its all related, the sexy clothes for kids, the pressure for adults to stay young, cause being young and fit and skinny is the only way to happiness, or so they are trying to tell us.

I am fortunate to have a husband who appreciates curves - and some hair ;-).

[Jessy]

In response to DoctorMama's comment, I think the fact that men are doing it, too DOES point to a Lolita culture. As recently as the 70's, the epitome of a hot man was one who was virile and macho, with a hairy chest, arms and legs - his body hair actually contributed to his manliness. Now, what do we have? Male models who are completely hairless, just like women. And yes, this DOES make men look younger - again, not quite pre-pubescent, but definitely not much past puberty.
Dan Savage (an advice columnist who addresses sexual issues) put it very well in an old column here: http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/SavageLove?oid=16163

He states at the end that the pendlum may be swinging back now, that people will start a "hairy backlash," but I have yet to see anything like that in the media (and that particular column was written in 2003!)

Anyway, I'm certainly not trying to tell anyone not to shave or anything, I just wanted to point out that there are some deep cultural issues going on that it's good to be aware of.

[Drama Queen]

Sometimes I shave it all. Sometimes I keep it pretty trim (I can't actually see anything over the stomach right now, so while I do trim, I'd be a bloody mess if I tried to shave it all at this point it time). For me, I just prefer to be completely shaven and dh prefers it as well.

Although, I share the concerns about the Lolita culture. I didn't respond to the original comment on the other thread, but I was glad the point was raised.

I think for many folks, it's not at all a "sexualization of children" issue, but for some it is.

I have friends whose husbands are dead-set against them shaving completely. In most of these cases, those men have little girls. One has even come out and specifically said he can't stand his wife looking like his 9-year-old daughter.

It seems to me that for the majority, it's not at all a "little girl" issue, but rather what society has shown them to be ideal. Yet for some (whether it be in a perverse way or in a "Please don't do that" kind of way), it is related to the Lolita culture.

Back in college, my thesis was on depictions of women in the media and one of my essays in that was on the sexualization of children, so this really peaks my interest.

[mirabel]

I get a wax once a month. I too have itching problems with shaving, and I don't like to do it very often. Though my waxer does "clean up" quite a bit, I definitely don't have everything waxed off, but that is just my personal preference. My husband likes the waxing, which is nice, but I do it for me, not him. I say whatever makes you most happy and comfortable!

There is one thing that does bother me a little bit though. My mom is a pediatric nurse practitioner, and once the girls in her practice hit the age of roughly 13 and up, they often starting seeing her for their yearly physical, as they are less comfortable with the male doctors in her practice. She said that virtually all of them shave off all of their pubic hair. According to her, they have gotten the idea (from movies, magazines, wherever) that the ONLY way to be attractive or have boys like them is to have no hair down there. To me, this is different from choosing to shave/wax or not as a personal preference. I mean, I think adolescence is a time when many people feel uncomfortable about their bodies, but it seems like this notion of "shave it all off is the only way to go" is a recent thing.

[Jennie]

Just for something different I"ll post then read the other comments... I'm a huge fan of complete waxing, the only time I don't do it is if my waxer is on holidays and I forget to book in beforehand.
I voted sexual reasons for me personally I find sex much nicer smoother and slipperier (tmi yet?) waxed than when I sport a full frontal forest. but I also like the added hygiene reasons, as women we all known the fun our bodies can put us through and (again tmi ahead)my cv could float a boat I'm sure of it, so yeah less mess.
as I had my legs up in stirrups last monday I asked the embryologist how many she'd say were waxed/shaved she said a good 50% of the women she sees. so it's common girls it's not something to worry about your doc's wont think poorly of you.

I also refuse to believe anyone and I mean ANYONE can look at my 39 year old bod (in as immaculate shape as it is) and even consider for a nano second a lolita before them. sorry I don't buy it at all.

nice girls do wax!

[Viv]

It would appear that I started a small fire and walked away from it. It would seem that I also left a key part of my post underdeveloped. I feel a bit careless….

Nabokov’s Lolita unveils the hidden fantasy life of a middle aged man who is interested in a 12 year old girl. He actually marries the mother to be close to the object of his desire. [This is a common practice among pedophiles.] Without a father or a decent mother Lolita is made a ready target for his fantasies and abuse. The protagonist Humbert Humbert first sexualizes the young girl and then he sexually abuses her. In the process he attempts to make her complicit with her own violation and tries to rationalize her violation as something she wanted. [The book is startling in the brutal beauty of its language and remains a ‘classic’ in many English departments. That is fascinating in of itself.] Lolita culture as a term reflects the ways in which the sexualization of young girls influences the sexual appetitites and shapes aesthetic sexual standards of consenting adults and popular culture more generally.

Lolita culture is not only the sexualization of young girls—the thongs and padded bras one is able to buy for 7 year olds—but also the ways in which this sexualization impacts heterosexual adults in their consensual unions and fantasies. Subcultures deviant and otherwise have a way of reshaping dominant sexual and gender paradigms. Witness the rise of the metrosexual from the immaculate world of the gay male subculture. Pubic waxing in the US first emerged from the netherworld [sorry couldn’t help the pun] of the sex industry, and spread as cable and vcrs began to satisfy the nation’s appetite for flesh. Images of very young women—the “barely legal” in their language—saturate the industry. School girl outfits abound as do, waxed vaginas, plastic breasts, unbearably thin bodies, etc. The effect is unmistakable for it is Nabokov’s Lolita—young, nubile, both innocent and knowing, and available/vulnerable.

What is troubling and perhaps naïve about assertions that waxing is the assumption that an individual choice is devoid of cultural significance. Indeed the shape and nuance of our most intimate choices—sexual appetite, bathroom habits, and the like—are all cultural constructions grounded in our biological selves but expressed through cultural constraints. Yes we must defecate but how and where we do it, who is witness to it, and whether we discuss it or not are cultural and not biological imperatives. The same is true for sex. Our appetites and preferences whatever they may be are shaped by our cultural milieu just as we shape it. [How else can we explain the muffin top phenomenon among middle aged women?] Take the case of hairlessness…

Another poster asked “well you shave your underarms don’t you?” This question is almost rhetorical as the answer seems a foregone conclusion—of course we must. Cultural practices including beauty and hygiene regimes have histories yet too often we assume that a particular practice is somehow a priori, some sort of foregone conclusion. I am fascinated by the way in which female hairlessness has become naturalized as normatively aesthetic and somehow hygienic. For the most part, these claims represent how powerful marketing and advertising have become. US women were first marketed shaving as a hygienic concern in 1915. Yes, prior to that some segments of us society removed unwanted hair—especially facial and chest hair. But the removal of underarm and/or leg hair was not rendered absolute in cultural terms until the postwar era, and even then there have always been holdouts. In the case of vaginal waxing its origins in the sex trade and its visual and cultural anchoring in the traffic of young women and girls is disturbing and unmistakable. The practice among adult women simply reinvigorates the fetishization of girls’ bodies especially those on the cusp of innocence and knowingness, 10-14.

I could go on forever, but I have already written more than my share. A mild disclaimer though: This is the language I have to share this information in. I am not looking to lecture or to sermonize, and apologize in advance if it sounds like either.

V

ps Men may not "see" our bodies as pubscent when we wax or shave, but it may serve to help some them through the process of arousal and sex as a reminder or totem of that which they acutally want. For those with fetishes or sexual perversions [careful, I am not saying they are one in the same] you can function with a reminder of your true desire even if your real object cannot be had.

[Laura]

Please tell me that this post was just a great big joke and that you made up the fact that someone actually compared a grown woman shaving her genitals to sexual obsession with pre-pubescent (sp?) children. My God, some people will find fault with anything. I am sure that my above statement will get me flamed but c'mon people! If a grown woman wants to shave her bits then let her. I shave my bits because I like a cleaner look and frankly it makes oral sex a ton better. I don't shave them because I want to be a child again. Frankly, there is no way to go back to a child look as I bear the lovely stretch marks of pregnancy and things are a bit saggy.

I think we should focus our ire on the fact that girls are "supposed" to emulate girls like Lindsey Lohan (drug addicted, party girl, anorexic); Britney Spears (I don't have enough lines to question her choices); Paris Hilton and many others who demean themselves on a daily basis. Let's freak out about the clothing manufacturers who seem to think it is okay to design midriff shirts with suggestive sayings and low rise pants for pre-school and elementary school students. Finally, where is the outrage for the fact that is has become perfectly acceptable and common in the U.S. for 12 and 13 year old girls to perform oral sex for any old reason?

I am not a prude by any stretch of the imagination and I believe that if you are over 18 and legal you can do whatever floats your boat. Shave all the hair on your body or be natural and free. I too have a huge problem with the sexualization of children and feel that child molesters need castration immediately. Having said that, I don't believe a hairless WOMAN is somehow condoning the sexualization of children.

I hope this made some kind of sense, I have an 18-month old who is currently cutting 4 teeth. Sleep is elusive.

[Carrie Jo]

I too have a huge problem with dressing children in sexy clothes. It even bothered me when they started making knee-high boots for elementary-age girls. I mean, I guess with the right dress it would judt look cute, but just the idea... I don't know it does bother me though. I actually tried shaving my entire cooter once but it itched SO badly when it grew back in. The skin around my pubic area is extremely sensitive and the hair is very thick so I'm terrified of waxing (visions of bleeding and in-grown hairs). So I just keep the hedges trimmed neatly because I don't like the way it looks or feels if left to it's own devices. Armits are always shaven though because I found that the hair holds in body odor more.

[Viv]

Laura asked if I was serious. Yes.

The young women she mentioned in her post, Lohan, Spears, and Hilton are all Lolitas. In fact, Spears embodies this very culture. Conjure the images from her earlier career--school girl outfits, shots of her laying around in boy shorts in her bedroom with teddy bears, etc., another cover shot of her in a pair of ruffled underwear without a shirt her hands just barely containing her breasts, on and on. These women are packaged and sold not simply to young men their own age but to older men as well. In the process their school girl sexuality affects the ways in which women of all ages are interpreted in the culture. Girls seek to emulate them, and older women adopt and adapt their style as well: Mid-riff baring shirts, ruffled mini skirts, low slung jeans, etc. become fashionable for the over thirty crowd. At the same time their school girl bodies (some enhanced by silicone and ohers by starvation) influence the sexual and visual culture of the nation and reshape our notions of desireability.

One last thing, it may indeed be hard to face that we are implicated in the sordidness of our own cultures but that doesn't lessen the truth of it.

[Viv]

Laura asked if I was serious. Yes.

The young women she mentioned in her post, Lohan, Spears, and Hilton are all Lolitas. In fact, Spears embodies this very culture. Conjure the images from her earlier career--school girl outfits, shots of her laying around in boy shorts in her bedroom with teddy bears, etc., another cover shot of her in a pair of ruffled underwear without a shirt her hands just barely containing her breasts, on and on. These women are packaged and sold not simply to young men their own age but to older men as well. In the process their school girl sexuality affects the ways in which women of all ages are interpreted in the culture. Girls seek to emulate them, and older women adopt and adapt their style as well: Mid-riff baring shirts, ruffled mini skirts, low slung jeans, etc. become fashionable for the over thirty crowd. At the same time their school girl bodies (some enhanced by silicone and others by starvation) influence the sexual and visual culture of the nation and reshape our notions of desireability.

One last thing, it may indeed be hard to face that we are implicated in the sordidness of our own cultures but that doesn't lessen the truth of it.

[Kirsty]

Sometimes I shave, sometimes I don't. I live in Europe so I"m not under the same kind of social pressure to constantly shave my
armpits and legs that American women seem to face. So when I'm in the mood to shave my legs, underarms or genitals then I do. If I'm not in the mood then I don't.

I enjoy being furry and I enjoy being smooth and I like having the ability to choose between the different states. I often enjoy being smooth in the summer when it makes me sweat less and furry in the winter when it keeps me warmer. On the whole I'm probably furry more often than I'm smooth because I'm lazy and I often can't be bothered with shaving and I can't afford to wax. The one thing I don't do is the landing strip look because I find it unattractive.

Do I think it's a Lolita thing? No, not really but I do agree that the increasing standardisation of beauty can be a problem for women. I think we do need more women who are prepared to be visibly natural - who will appear in public without make-up, who will carry extra pounds without feeling shame, who won't shave if they don't want to, who will let the hair on their upper lip grow (now there's a real taboo subject for ya, Tertia!), who will refuse to get cosmetic surgery just because their friends are, who will not wear false breasts after a masectomy, who will let their hair go grey.

But we all have to choose what we're comfortable with - I don't often wear make-up but I do sometimes dye my hair when I feel like a change and I've never been able to accept my moustache so I pluck it.

Personally I'm far more uncomfortable with women going under the knife than I am with them shaving or not shaving any of their body hair. But you know, that's their choice to make not mine and I can resist the increasing cultural influence of cosmetic surgery by simply not doing it. I'm sure that eventually there will be a swing against the overly 'plastic' look that is currently in fashion and women will return to looking more natural.

[Amy]

I got a brazillian once and had never considered the Lolita issue before but straightaway I found it disturbing to look at myself naked. It really did remind me of a little girl's vagina and I felt like I was mimmicking a child. My hubbie didn't like it either and for the same reason. I don't have a huge moral issue with other women keeping themselves bare but it's not for me. I prefer to embrace my womanhood and that means having my mysterious triangle. Having said that though I do keep my pubic hair trimmed which makes me feel neater and makes things easier for hubbie when he's down there.

[Mandarin]

In the interestes of full disclosure: I shave the bits because it feels so much better to me to have have sex with skin on skin contact--all those nerve endings closer to my fella, without an extra insulating layer, make everything even tinglier, and I think it is worlds better. Never considered the Lolita angle except for the one time I went totally bare--I only shave the important contact areas now.

[beth]

a suggestion: it's not really the sexualization of children so much as the infantilization of women.

and there is a difference between a general sociological observation, pertaining, for example, to pornography or beauty standards, and a person's individual choices for health and / or sexual practice.

that said, it was fairly disconcerting to me how many people in these comments reported that their beaver grooming choices were not actually their own, but their male partners'. and you have to wonder--why do they want that? is hair "dirty" or is it because hair is a sign of maturity? of postpubescence? of adulthood? i think a lot of guys want it because it's what they see in porn, it's what they've assimilated as "sexy". but where did it start?

it's not so much because of a DIRECT connection--that a male actually wants to have sex with a ten-year-old girl, and therefore wants you to look like one. it's more, as jessy pointed out, "that we need to hide any and all signs of aging past teenager-hood," of maturity and therefore independence.

given that one commenter above also said her SO had told her to grow it out, as well, for "a different look", it may be about the ability to control the woman's grooming choices, period, and not about whether or not there are hairs down there.

[mama-beans]

I think some are putting too much power in cooter hair. I keep my "fun area" bald because my husband likes it, and I feel cleaner... he doesn't like it because it looks like a 10 year olds, but because Oral sex is one of his specialties (I get it almost every time) and it is a pain in the ass to stop, scrape a hair off of your tongue, and resume. That simple. I think it minimizes odor ( for me anyway) and makes the whole area just a little cleaner( personal preference here.. I also prefer shower shags). I also appreciate when he keeps that area closely cropped. I like him hairy every where else, but his fun bits are much funner to *kiss* when I don't have to dig through a jungle to find them. (*disclamer* a joke, honey... you are HUGE and I would have to be blind to miss your massive junk) I mean personally, in my relationship, we don't spend a whole lot of time looking at each others naughty bits. When it comes to being nekkid, it's touching that counts, not looking. Ask your hubby.. hand-full of boob or eye-full of cooter... which would he prefer?