What makes a good father?

A v interesting debate, the working mother one. A v interesting side debate that ensued was the one around ‘what makes a good father’. It’s a good question.

What does make a good father?

Is a career focused man, one who works hard, who by default therefore works long hours, perhaps travels, is he a good father? Is he a good father because he is providing for his family? Is he excused from the hands on parenting role because he is working so hard? Or is he a bad father for not being around the kids more? Why is a mother who works those same hours considered not a good mother?

If a man decides to take an ‘easier’ / more flexible / lower paying job in order to spend more time with the kids a better father? Does this make him a better man? Or do we think of him as less of a man?

Whose job is it to do the day-to-day kid stuff? In the job description of Father does “day-to-day kid stuff” come lower down the list of priorities?

Are father’s exempt from the ‘admin’ of parenting? Is it enough that they are there to see their kids for an hour before bedtime and on weekends?  Is it good enough that they put food on the table?

We can’t define a good father as one who loves his kids, that’s too simplistic. One would hope that all fathers love their kids. We know that biology has nothing to do with being a father. Ejaculation does not equal fatherhood. 

Let’s have an example:

Father A – works a 12-hour day, sometimes longer, does so in order that his wife can stay home and take care of the kids. He probably only sees them for an hour a day, if he is lucky, and tries to make up some time on the weekend. Because of his demanding work life, he contributes very little in terms of actual childrearing hours. Of course he loves his children dearly, and will try his best to spend as much time as possible with them, but his job, the commute, the hours means that he gets to spend very little actual time with them.

Father B – works an 8-hour day. Has decided to forgo a career in order to have a job that allows him to spend as much time at home as possible. Unfortunately, this means he earns way less than Father A, which means his wife has to work as well. Their children are (happily, well adjusted) in day care, but they spend as much time together as they possibly can. 

Yes, these are simplistic examples, and not every thing is as polar, as black and white, but in these examples, is one father better than the other? 

Of course the natural reaction is to say that each family is different, that what makes a good father for one family might not be the same for another? Yes, oddly enough, we don’t grant that same latitude in our judgement of mothers. Do we not often infer some type of negative judgement to the hard working, long hours in the office mother that we don’t do the father? We are so much stricter in terms of how we define what makes a good mother as compared to how we define what makes a good father.

Then, do children need a hands-on, involved father? If the mother is doing the parenting admin, isn’t the father’s love sufficient enough on its own? Or isn’t it?

How involved, how hands-on does the father need to be in order to qualify him as a ‘good’ father?

Do we as a society, both men and women alike, have different criteria in our judgement of what makes a good father in comparison to what makes a good mother? And where does that differential come from? Is it an historic thing? A reflection of our patriarchal society? A biblical interpretation? 

It’s very interesting. If I look at my own life – I do the majority of the parenting admin. Marko works really hard, not just because he wants to, but because he has to. My job understands that I can’t work long hours because I have kids, his doesn’t. There are days that he only sees the kids for an hour or so. Does that make him a bad father? Not in my eyes it doesn’t. Am I then just as accepting of different measures we assign to mothers and fathers as the rest of society – perhaps.

Perhaps it is meant to be this way, perhaps it happens this way because this is how it works best. Or perhaps we accept it this way because we know no other way?

What makes a good father in my eyes? One who loves his kids, obviously; one who is involved, to a greater or lesser degree, in the upbringing of his kids. One who sets a good example, one who plays catch with his kids, who wrestles and tickles, one how treats the mother with respect. But you know what, in my opinion, what makes a good father, in my world, is one who DOES provide for his family financially, and if this means working hard, working long hours resulting in less hands on time with the kids, then so be it. Is it a double standard? Perhaps. 

I don’t know, it is a very very interesting debate. What’s your opinion?

I’ve tried to do a poll on this, but it’s v difficult to encapsulate the essence of this question in a poll type format – if any one has any ideas pls let me know. In the meantime I’ve done a v simplistic poll to try and find out what people think the primary role of the ‘good’ father should be. Doing the polls is always tricky, cos you don’t want to leave any thing out, and you don’t want to sway the answers in a particular direction.

Comments

[Sarah]

I think the most interesting statement that you made was where you said that your job understands that you can't work long hours because you have kids, but Marko's employer doesn't.

Isn't it sad that our cultures don't expect dads to be available for their kids as much as they expect moms to be available? When did we as a society decide that kids needed their dads less than their moms? Why do we put so much pressure on our employees, with our without children, that they feel like they have to trade personal liberty for a decent wage? When did working hard for 8 hours a day become not enough?

Spending a few hours with our son every day is a high priority to my husband. He has passed up some career oppertunities so that his schedule is mercifully relaxed. His salary is enough to provide for us, but he has given up the fast track so that he can be around more.

If his salary weren't enough, it would be nice if I could help share the financial load by working what was neccessary so that he could be available to his kids, too. I just wish that everyone had the chance to spend the time with their kids that they really want.

[Sarah]

IMHO, a good father is one that has a relationship with his child(ren). The quality of a relationship between a parent and a child is not directly proportional to the amount of time said parent spends with said child. A parent of either gender could spend 8hr a day in the same proximity as the child and still be a poor parent, likewise a parent may only see their child for an hour, but that hour may be spent interacting with the child, getting to really know the child, being involved in whatever way is necessary.

That said, I can only really speak of my experience.
I grew up with a SAHM and a father that worked two jobs out of necessity. He wasn't a bad father - he was doing what he had to so that there would be a roof over his family's head. However, my father and I didn't have much of a relationship until my mother entered the work force and he was forced to spend more time with us (and that new amount time was only on the order of an hour or two a day). Prior to that, all childcare "issues" belonged to my mother. My dad was the person who showed up for dinner between working. Could he have gotten to know us better in his busier days? Probably. But there was no real pressure to do so, as Mom had everything under control. He just went with the flow.

I can tell you that I am glad for those later years because they forced my dad to get to know his kids better. (incidentally, at the same time he became a more attentive spouse according to my mother, so it may have been an all-over wake up call)

[Heather]

I find this a very interesting question and one that I think everyone does have a different answer for. I'm very lucky that I as well have a very flexible job. My interests right now very much lie in trying to make sure my family is taken care of as my DH's time is very limited with us right now, but it is temporary. He travels a lot for his current job, he's in school for his MBA every other weekend, he's got a lot of homework to get done at home, and his job does take him a lot of hours while he's home as well.

But we make the most of it. We both provide financially for our family, and he is very involved in parenting our daughter in my opinion. And I think that's the important part. He's there when we need him, and we all have a good time together. My DH and I also have a very good relationship and love each other very much. My DH appreciates how I've been taking care of the extra burden now that he started school this year. I think our daughter is getting a very good education in how a married couple can work together as a team, and I think that's as important to her development as a person as if her Dad comes to all her ice skating practices (which he doesn't right now).

[Rachel]

Good question. Because someone has to stay home with Katie (she's autistic - day care simply isn't an option) my husband is gone 11 hours a day (2 of them commuting.) He's home and awake with her about 3 hours a night. Usually he bathes her (this is mostly in prep for number 2, who I will undoubtedly be the only one to bathe for quite a while) and about one nigt a week I disappear (either a hobby group with frieds, or locked upstairs in our room decompressing.) He has gotten better about spending time with her and doing the admin stuff - especially on the weekend. But that is partially because he has jusr recently realized exactly how difficult/how much work it is to stay home with her all day (I was ill for a few days and he stayed home toi watch her - a huge eye opener for him!) and how she acts differently during the day then the last few hours she's awake at night. So for our situation, he's a good father. But, and here's the key, every situation is different. I think what makes one man a good father may make another one a crappy one. It's all very situational.

[Michelle]

My husband and I are not seeing eye to eye on this right now. He recently took a new job that has him traveling 50-75 percent of the time. I was crushed that he even considered the offer.
To me a better father would have taken a less-demanding job, even if it paid less and has less prospect for the future. To him, the higher paying job made him a better provider and therefore a better father. And btw his busy work schedule severely limits MY ability to advance MY career.

[Brandy]

I usually don't voice my opinion, but I would like to with this. I disagree with you on this topic. I believe what makes a good father is a dad who spends quality time with their kids. I live in Mississippi, USA. Before I finally got pg, we made $50,000 a year together. I had to go on bedrest, because of the pg. I then lost my job after my children were born and were in the NICU. Our income was cut in half. My children were in the NICU for 4 months and my husband rarely worked, because we drove 2 hours one way trip to see the kids. After they came home, my husband went back to work. He took another position so he would be home every day and only work 8 hours aday. We have a very big house payment, two cars, etc... We had to do without a lot of things we were used to because we BOTH need to have time with the kids. My boys are so happy to see their daddy come home after he works 8 hours aday. Yes, we all do without certain things, but we are all happy and are very loved. I never had a dad when I was growing up. I believe that is one of the worst things. It was just me and my mom. She did everything in her power to be the best mom and she was. She only worked 8 hour days to make sure she was there for me. We did without (we lived in a trailer park, had a 10 year old car, had clothes from a cheap store) but I was happy and loved. I can't understand why people would rather have certain things than to be with their children. I never wanted to be a stay at home mom and if my children had not been so sick (developmentally delayed, therapy, hearing loss, feeding issues etc...), then I would have probably worked. But it took this to realize what our family needed and that is a mom, dad and kids that spend time together. My husband had a chance to make a lot more money, but many hours away from home. He decided that spending time with his family was more important than having more money. My kids do have a home, clothes, food, insurance, toys, etc... but we do without other things. I am not trying to step on anyone's toes. I am not saying anyone is wrong for doing what they do. Every family is different, but this is what is best for my family. Tertia, I am glad you are happy with the way your family does things, that is all that matters. One more thing I would like to add, I never thought we could live off of $25,000 a year with 2 kids, but it can be done. A lot of things can be done when it needs to be done, some people just don't want to believe it or try it. And hats off to ALL stay at home moms, stay at home working moms and working moms. We all have difficult jobs, but the joy of it all are the kids.

[Kay]

Why do WE have to judge at all? The only judgement that counts is the judgement of the child(ren). Assigning levels of "goodness" to parenting is pointless. While some aspects of a parent might be "good" - she stays at home all day with her kids, there might be some "bad" that goes with it - she drinks/smokes/watches soap operas in front of them. Kids can be ignored with a parent who is physically present, but not mentally present. Parenting is not one size fits all.

Some things that my friends husbands do would drive ME insane. There is no such thing as a "perfect" husband - as it depends on the wife in question. Likewise, there is no such thing as a "perfect" father - or mother - they don't exist. All you can hope for is that when your kids grow up, that they can see you did your best and that you love them. THAT is what a good parent is.

[Shana]

Ditto to the above. A good father (or mother for that matter) is just a parent who tries to do the best they can with whatever resources they have available. Measuring it by a scale of income, time, etc. isn't fair to those who have limited resources but are still doing a fine job despite the hardships.

My father was mostly hands-off when we were little and only became more involved as we grew into talking, thinking people. It was also the 70s in small-town Texas so no big surprise there. Sad thing is, my sister still lives there and her husband is very much like our dad. My husband, on the other hand, is very much involved with the daily care of our 1 year-old daughter. Feeding, diaper changes, baths, everything. He even cooks -I have a true gem, I know! We are both lucky that our employers are somewhat sypathetic to us having a young child and the attendant doctor visits, etc. We have both stayed home with her when she's sick without too much hassle.

I feel for those parents who are on shift-work and do not have the flexibility of an office job or the ability to tele-commute like my husband. I have often said that every working mother needs a "wife" at home.

[Merimoo]

Brandy, I respect what you've done very much, but in the part of the US where I live, you can't live a non-subsistance lifestyle for that little money. Heck, even as a grad student, my expenses are a significant percentage of that amount. If I want my (future) children to live near their grandparents, then I probably will have to work, at least part-time. But that is MY reality, not yours, and that's okay. I chose the field I'm getting my grad degree in partly because of the the flexibility it will allow me.

When I first met my S.O., he said very early on that he had chosen his job specifically _because_ of the reasonable hours, and that he'd rather be able to devote that time to the people in his life instead of getting paid more. And yeah, that's when I knew.

[Laurie]

Am still mulling this over...but...what I'm also mulling over is...when we ask what makes a man a "Good Father," are we talking about his relationship with his kids, with his wife and/or with his employer? For example, if a Dad works very long hours to provide for his family and/or to protect his career so he can provide for family in the long term, but he falls short (in someone's eyes) in (for example) child care responsiblities (i.e. wife does 90% of it), is he a good Dad, a good Employee but a bad Husband? Are we using the term "Father" to mean all of these things? How high does a man have to score in each category to be a "Good Father"? It may be helpful in this discussion to think about how each component (Dad, Husband, Employee) weighs into the bigger picture of "Good Father" - and how the grading scale is different for what makes a "Good Mother." LOVE this discussion.

[Foster]

Good enough mom or dad? Shit, Im still trying to figure out if Im a good enough WIFE lol.

Seeing as how I complain already that dh's job keeps us apart too much (we work opposite shifts, and he works too many hours, imo), I would fully favor a lower-level job that lets Dad be home more often. Much like how a mom that works a 12-hour day "cant" be a "good" mom, I think that 12 hours for dads is also too much. The occasional business trip or long-ass day is okay, as I think that men should be primary bread winners when babies are involved (sorry, working and infants is way too much for me to even think about handling). Kids need to see their dads as much as possible. Thankfully (purposely?), dh and I agree on this stuff so far.

But back to the wife thing: I work less and make WAY less than dh (by choice), and already have trouble reconciling the fact that doing laundry, cooking almmost everything in our house from scratch, doing all the food shopping, and keeping us from drowning in clutter are enough to "equal" what he brings home in his paycheck. It is sad to think that literally the only chore he has is to empty the kitchen trash, and I have to remind myself that if I wasnt "good" enough, he would say something. It really is sad how much we WOMEN (not just mothers!) beat ourselves up!!! >:p

[Rachel]

Having Father A and Father B is far too simplistic. What about Father C? He works around 50 hours a week and spends an hour in the morning and 2 or 3 hours at night with his children, and is there on weekends rain or shine. His wife stays home with the child/children, so it is considered more her job to keep the house up, get up in the middle of the night with the children, etc., etc.

That is my husband. We are able to do that and it works well.

I was a bit late in getting in your mother debate, but when push comes to shove I don't think any of us would disagree that no one can love my baby more than my husband or I. I take care of another baby in my home and just don't feel that motherly affection for her that I do for my own baby. It's interesting though, if her mom wasn't working I wouldn't have the opportunity to make a little more so it would be easier to stay home with L! Anyway, the other baby gets wonderful care, but the motherly huggy/fuzzy instinct thing is not there. I don't know her ins and outs, what she looked like the day she was born, the silly little things she does, etc. Now if I take care of her long enough I will discover those things, but I feel bad that her mom can't be there to have those special times with her daughter.

I think the women's movement has set women BACK as far as the women working/staying at home/having it all thing goes. You CAN'T have it all and do a perfect job, like someone else says. Hell, you can't stay at home and do a perfect job of it either.

I will be honest, Tertia, sometimes I look at the things you get to buy your kids, or your house, and think, "Man, she could stay home if she REALLY wanted to", but then there is this little tidbit that I just realized I was forgetting...let's say your husband makes 5 dollars a week (just throwing arbitrary numbers out there; that's not the point.) You stay home, you guys aren't making it, especially with 2 babies. You go to work as well, and together you and Marko make 10 dollars a week. You make it fine, plus have extra money to get nice things for you and the babes. You would probably NEED 7 dollars a week just to make it and have no extras, but Marko doesn't MAKE 7 dollars a week. Alone he only makes 5. So that is impossible. So, you end up with the aforementioned $10 a week, which allows you guys to make it, plus have some extras. As silly as this sounds I never had thought of it that way. I sort of thought of it as, "You either sacrifice everything and stay home with the babies", or "You both work and you make loads of money." Yes, you are making that extra over-the-top amount because both of you work, but without your job at all you wouldn't even be making it. Does this make sense? So, basically I guess what I am saying is that in a way it is all-or-nothing. You either make a little or a lot more than that, because both of you are working. And I can tend to be more judgemental than I think, and I am really working on that. I think growing up in sort of a more-judgemental-than-not family has made me that way. We are also quite skeptical.

I DO however believe that many say they can't do it and don't realize, like Brandy said, that they could if they really wanted to. In very few cases is the "We just can't do it" a valid argument.

Anyway, I think that in a perfect world moms or dads would get to raise their babies day-to-day. And, that is true about the moms being "bad" if they don't stay home, but then the dads aren't thought of that way at all if they don't stay at home. This is probably due more to women being the homemakers historically than anything else, but things they are a-changing! There is no doubt in my mind that A and K are at the top of your list. Little beauties for sure!

Brandy I agree with what you wrote. I guess for most people they COULD do it, but just don't want to sacrifice alot of things. I always think of myself on my death bed...would I rather think, "Gee, I had some nice cars, and the kids got to go to those cool camps!" or "It was so awesome to be the one she woke up to after her naps, hear her first word, be able to personally blow her nose when she's sick, etc., etc., etc."...I chose the latter. It saddens me that in our society the kids are getting lower and lower on the priority list. Quantity of time spent with them is so important. They need their moms and dads.

I like this forum where you allow everyone to discuss. Much of the reason your blog is so popular. OH, and you are a fabulous writer, duh! :)

Rachel

[esther]

A good father, or parent for that matter, is one who teaches his/her children to be good people, to be kind, and to respect life. It is irrelevant how or when it is done, just that it is done.
Just my opinion....

[Tine]

I didn't respond to your working-mother post b/c though I am a working mom in a professional career to which I'm very committed, I don't consider myself a "ladder climber" and thus not qualified to comment on that.

Fatherhood, though...I've got a few things to say about that.

First, a question: Shouldn't there be a Father C in our comparison? The father who stays home and/or is the primary caregiver for the child(ren)? I think we as a society need to get in the habit of thinking/talking about that as an option. Many men are well suited to this role, but I think a lot of parents don't consider it simply b/c it never occurred to them.

My husband is one of those types. He'd love nothing more than to be home with our son all day. And damned if he isn't better at it than me, too.

Unfortunately, neither one of us makes enough money to support the whole family. (I guess we are stupid idealists--both committed to doing work that we love, that we feel is important, instead of what will make us the most money.)

So we make the best of our situation. Grandma has cared for our son part-time since he was a few months old. As a result, he has an incredible relationship with her--the kind I could never imagine having had with my own grandmothers. For the rest of the care we needed, we found a part-time daycare provider so excellent that she's practically part of the family. Are these two amazing women somehow bad for our son? No way. They've enriched his life and ours in ways hubby and I could never have managed.

Perhaps it helps that hubs and I (despite our decidedly unimpressive pay) both have careers that enrich and are enriched by our parenting. (I work for a publisher of parenting books; hubs is a teacher and family therapist.) Both of our employers understand that family comes first, and they practice what they preach. And b/c hubs is a teacher, he does get to be a stay-at-home dad for a couple of months every summer.

My husband has always taken it for granted that we would be equally "present" parents. He's made good on it, too. I'm always a bit perplexed when I come across dads who assume that anything that has to do with the kids is mom's job. It's not like my husband is some ultra-modern whippersnapper, either. He's 13 years older than me and came from a super-traditional upbringing in a very small, conservative, rural town.

This seems to have become a big post about how great my husband is. That's not what I mean to say.... Just trying to present a "type" of dad that seems quite uncommon, and ask why that is.

[Louise]

Hi Tertia. This is the first time I have had the courage to add a comment to your blog. I am probably the luckiest woman in the world. My husband works a 3.5 day week (which is full time for his job) and is at work normally from 7.30 until 5.30 on the full days he is there. He is very hands on, changes nappies, bathes the baby and even cooks dinner when he gets home from work. (In my defence he actually loves cooking and I don't. Also he is a much better, more imaginative cook than I'll ever be). His job? He is a doctor (specialist now so good money).

I probably sound like I am gloating, but really wanted to say you have made me realise how lucky I am to have a 'good' father for our child in all ways, hands on, financial and admin. I am confident that he and I will be equal partners in the no doubt difficult task of bringing our daughter up in the crazy world in which we live. I do find it sad that some fathers need to be away from their children so much in order to be able to keep a roof over their heads, however I completely understand why it is necessary. Remember Maslow's hierarchy of needs? Shelter food and warmth are up there along with love; as long as the child is getting those in whatever combination from each parent than that is what I would call 'good' parenting.

Thank you.

[Mindy]

We have a unique situation at my house which for us works perfectly. My DH is a resturaunt manager and I work in an office. I have weekends off and he has Monday and Tuesday off. I work from 7:30 - 4:30 and he works from 9-6. This means that 2 days a week I have Annie alone, 2 days he does, 3 days a week he brings her to daycare and 3 days a week I pick her up. Of course we forgo time together as a family like most do on the weekends, but each of us know what it's like to raise our daughter. She goes to daycare 3 days a week and that has done wonders for her social skills.

Some families wouldn't go for this. I admit it's hard that we can't ever give each other "a break" but this is what is working for us.

[Liz]

In my opoion both examples are good father. The 1st one the father is providing the family, so the wife and the kids can have a good life, things they want. The 2nd one, even though the father is providing less, but he's contributing by helping out with kids and household chores. So neither is better than the other.
Personally I had it good (Bragging time :). My husband works 8 hours (thank you Govn't job), no o/t, no travling, and he makes enough that I don't have to work. And when he gets home, he helps out with the kids and household chores. So I have it better part of the both sides.

[Rachel]

Neither father is better, I don't think... just different. Dang I got long-winded and forgot to answer this one! Anyway, as long as the mother and father are both feeling like things are working well, I think it's great. HOWEVER, if one is feeling like she/he is doing the majority of the work at home as WELL as working outside the home and doesn't feel like that's fair, I think that's something worth discussing.

Another factor - I know with my husband and I, he always said we didn't even need to have kids. So I think more of the rearing falls on me, because, in essence, I was the one who wanted to stay at home, do the mom thing, etc. I think if I worked and then we shared parenting responsibilities he would really resent me. It was just always sort of understood that I would do more of the diapers/feeding, etc...and although he is very involved, I still have to get up iwth her in the night, etc., do more of the "less fun" stuff, if you will. It works for us just fine.

I didn't even answer the question. Bloody hell. I am more long-winded than an Iowa tornado.

[achromic]

A good parent is one that does the best that they can and wants better for their kids then they themselves had. (unless they themselves had it very good then they would of course want to give their children something of simaler value) That be it. It applies to both. It has nothing to do with who works or who doesn't or even in my opinion how much time you have to spend with your kids, although time spending is a good idea.

[Judy]

When my first was on his way, my husband and I were faced with a daunting decision...what to do once the baby arrived. Would I return to work? Would I stay home? Would he stay home? How long?

Returning to work was my last choice, and I have fought it tooth and nail for the past 6 years (and let the credit card bills show how hard it has been). So, we had to decide which of us would try to stay home and raise our child, because having one of us home was something we wanted IF we could make it work (weren't sure then).

It actually made sense for me to go to work and hubby to stay home, minus the whole breastfeeding thing. I'm not a pumper, so that kind of put a kink in the old dad-at-home plan. So, he's been the one at work. He's amazing. When he walks through that door, no matter what kind of a shitty day he has had at work, he's Mr. Dad. I'm off the clock, basically. He feeds the kids, plays with them in the yard, bathes them, readies them for bed, and hands off the baby to me for a nightcap. I'm around, but the pressure is off to be 110% involved as I had been all day. If the kids get up in the middle of the night, he insists on being the one to take care of it. I don't know what I did to deserve him, but he's definitely a keeper!

Now, he likes his job, but it isn't all a bed of roses. So, our GRAND PLAN is for me to go back to work in a couple of years and HIM to stay home, get some post-grad work in, whatever. We've made it this far - we can do anything.

My husband gives everything he has to our kids when he's around. That's all I ask of him. He's a terrific dad!

[rosemary grace]

Perfect follow-up to the mother+career post!

I think what makes a good father is a lot of the same qualities that make a good husband. Genuinely caring about the wellbeing and happiness of your wife (and kids), and being willing to change some aspects of your life to help them to be happy. A father who loves his family deeply and works long hard hours to keep them financially solvent, stealing what "quality time" he can on weekends...is a good father. A father who pays lip service to loving his family and works long hard hours to keep them financially solvent, but thinks that that is ALL he should ever have to do (no diaper changing, no homework helping, no household duties)? He is not a good father, because he is missing the point. I keep thinking about the woman who commented that her husband wanted children, but he didn't want to have to change his life. Scary.

Good parenting is not about the amount of time spent with the kid so much as it is about the quality of the time that is spent, and making sure whoever is looking after them loves and respects them. My Dad is a professor, so a lot of the time when he was at home he was working at marking exams or writing a book, but we still had a good relationship. He could have ignored me except to yell at me for disturbing his work, but since he liked having kids he played with me and my sister and got us involved in his gardening projects. My husband's dad was often out of work, but didn't hang out with the kids when he had more time, he ignored them except to yell, and his wife continued to work full time and manage the house. It's not the unemployment that made him a less than stellar father, it's that fact that he didn't value the time with his kids.

The caring and ability to sometimes be selfless in the interests of the kids is what's important in both mothers and fathers, but the modern workplace does not allow for men to have to do "soccer-mom" duties, nor does it allow for the fact that having to take your kid to the doctor does not make you any less of a career woman (as long as your productivity doesn't suffer).

It sucks that Marko can't get some flexibility from his work, and I'm sure it's partly because of him being a male parent. That's not a measure of his devotion though, it's a measure of his job being a bit mean.

I read an interesting tidbit this nmorning: the first female governor of a US state to give birth while in office (to twins no less!) found early on that having her children present at a public rally counted against her because people assumed that she would not be focusing properly on the job if her kids were present. How many male politicians roll out their cute kids at support rallies to show how they are "family men"?

Double Standard. For Sure.

[Lisa]

I think a good dad is one that cares about and loves his kids. Period. I don't think you can equate how many hours he works or how many business trips he takes with how devoted he is to his children. When he's there, he's there. He's rolling around on the floor, he's making bottles, he's giving baths, he's kissing that fat little belly, he's calling from the road and asking to "talk" to an 8 month old that he knows will just stare at the phone. I'm tearing up right now, b/c I realized that I'm describing my husband, yes the same one I griped at this morning about something stupid. I think I need to call him now.

[Scout]

"I'm always a bit perplexed when I come across dads who assume that anything that has to do with the kids is mom's job."

I agree with that and basically think that a good father is someone wants to be the best parent they can be to their children. I'd use the same definition for a good mother as well, regardless of the situation with work.

I think in this day and age it's a man that is willing to try to take on equal parenting duties if his wife wants to continue her career or if the family needs 100% of the mother's income. That's not to say women have carte blanche to do whatever they want without discussing it with their partners, but I think it is high time women stop working the "second shift" and start demanding that the men in their lives step up to the plate. We are not going to change the corporate world from without, that's going to gradually come when the CEO says he has to go at five because HE has to pick up the kids from daycare.

However, every family is different. I think my friends that stay at home while their husbands work have good fathers for their children and those that work also have good fathers as well. Just like a SAHM can be a good mom and a WOHM can be too.

[Egg Donor]

I haven't read all the comments, so I don't know if this has shown up, but I'd like a Father C for balance, who stays home with the kids while his wife works. I know a few SAHFs, and they are awesome.

Personally, I think whatever works for the family is fine, so long as both parents are putting in equally.

[wavybrains]

I love this question. I think this question is probably different if answered from the perspective of the the wife/partner than if answered from the perspective of the child.

My mother was largely a SAHM mother, and did just about 100% of the parenting admin, although my dad did more and more as we got older--maybe more like 10%/90% once we were over 10. From my perspective as his child, I wish that even though he was PHYSICALLY present, that he had been more emotionally involved, played more games with us, been more there--but whatever the ratio ended up being--he was the right choice for my mother, who is something of a control freak and worry-wart, and wouldn't have done too well with a more involved partner. She assumed a lot of admin work herself, and her choice in partner reflects her personality.

Me, I have tried to choose a 50/50 partner where nothing is "someone else's" job. In reality, my husband, who agrees 100% with this philosophy is gone 12 hour days. He does a lot around the house, but I do more. He's determined to move into a better job situation, if not work from home before we have kids. For us, that suits us, to both be incredibly involved, to both be hands on, but it IS a struggle, a power dance, and a lot of work and compromise, that some couples might not be cut out for.

In the end, I think children benefit from having involved parents, no matter how the ratio works out. If it is at all possible to have a SAH parent during the first 3-4 years, then that is great, but as long as a child has incredibly involved, loving parents, then I think they have "ideal" parents.

Love this debate.