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Gosh, I had these feelings every day throughout my pregnancies and not only around my fellow infertiles. I was always so afraid that other friends and family members would hit me with "what are your complaining about, you are finally pregnant"? I was even afraid to comment on my morning sickness to the nurse in the hospital who was putting in an IV because I was so severely sick. However, the day after I gave birth to my daughter I heard my mom describing the delivery to a friend. I was horrified that she was saying things like "it was hard, the poor thing, it lasted three days". I asked her to stop to which she replied, "just because you wanted this so badly doesn't mean it didn't suck a little". I was always walking a fine line, so afraid to hurt someone's feelings.

Tertia, I lurve you.

Tertia... you are so damned considerate, and always say it so eloquently. I so admire you.

Amen. This community has supported me more than any other group I've ever been a part of and I remember that and am grateful for it and always want to remain sensitive to that fact.

Very well said.

AMEN! I agree with everything you said here - as a matter of fact, I expressed the very same opinion on Karen's post. I believe that as an infertile once, when we move on to pregnancy, then motherhood, we must keep our audience (who are mostly made up of women still struggling to get pregnant) in mind. After all, our blogs ARE PUBLIC. If one feels that she doesn't have to care what she writes, it is HER BLOG, then maybe she should make it password protected.

How's this for the opposite point of view, courtesy of a friend of mine.

My personal source of assvice is fond of telling me "you know, when you get pregnant, you won't be allowed to complain like everyone else is".

To which I, of course, respond "no, actually, only someone who has worked and suffered and cried their way towards pregnancy is entitled to complain about it - you, who got pregnant by accident, have no right whatsoever to complain about anything to do with pregnancy or parenting, because you didn't earn it like infertile people do"

A planned shocking response on my part - I thought she would be so surprised by such an extreme statement that she might, perhaps, quit the assvice and start showing a little compassion.

Nope - she said almost exactly the same thing a few days later "well, you won't get PPD, because you say you really want to be pregnant"

I think the moral of the story is that you can't shock someone to their senses, and that the assvice won't sop once you get pregnant.

(and no, I don't think no-one has the right to complain, just to limit who they complain to - I was trying to shock this girl)

How's this for the opposite point of view, courtesy of a friend of mine.

My personal source of assvice is fond of telling me "you know, when you get pregnant, you won't be allowed to complain like everyone else is".

To which I, of course, respond "no, actually, only someone who has worked and suffered and cried their way towards pregnancy is entitled to complain about it - you, who got pregnant by accident, have no right whatsoever to complain about anything to do with pregnancy or parenting, because you didn't earn it like infertile people do"

A planned shocking response on my part - I thought she would be so surprised by such an extreme statement that she might, perhaps, quit the assvice and start showing a little compassion.

Nope - she said almost exactly the same thing a few days later "well, you won't get PPD, because you say you really want to be pregnant"

I think the moral of the story is that you can't shock someone to their senses, and that the assvice won't sop once you get pregnant.

(and no, I don't think no-one has the right to complain, just to limit who they complain to - I was trying to shock this girl)

Warm fuzzy squishy love Tertia.

<< Others are extremely lucky and get pregnant on their first IVF, or never suffer a loss. >>

Isn't it a fucked up world when someone who only needs *one* IVF to have a child is lucky?

Anyway, I am a "lucky" one, and one thing I learned is that good friends care about you and your suffering, even if they would kill to be in your shoes. But there will, of course, be days (or weeks or months or years) where they simply cannot read it, no matter how much they want you to feel better. My solution was to never bring up the P word unless asked. But that doesn't work on a blog, does it? So here's what I think... your regular readers know you're pregnant, they know it is hard-won and well-deserved, and they probably want to know how you're doing. That's why they're here. So complain away. To be kind, you could add a little warning and some white space so those who are having difficulty can quickly scroll past those parts.

BTW, my family was always telling me "It's okay to complain!" But I still didn't. For fear of jinxing myself, but mostly because I didn't have many problems in the first place. If I had, I'm sure I would have been a world class whiner. Not "I'm tired of being pregnant" but "This is so unfair, I worked so hard, I deserved an easy pregnancy."

Tertia, this is perfect. Absolutely perfect.
Yes.
Well said.
I do believe I love you.

Tertia, I discovered your blog today via "A Little PG", and I am so glad that I did. I can't tell you how much I've enjoyed reading it. O.k., there were a couple of times where I thought my heart was going to break into a million kajillion little pieces for you, but other than that ...

I am so doggone happy for you. A boy and a girl!! I am going to be praying for you and the babies and your DH and family. It's strange, when you feel connected to a person you've never met before and whom you didn't even know existed yesterday, but I guess that just goes to show how weird I am and how special YOU are. =)

God bless you!
Rebekah

P.S. Should you be interested, I have a Diary on Moms Today. It's not half as interesting as your blog here, but I still like it. =)

Tertia - I agree.

I also agree. Beaautiful said.

i suppose a good bit of that all depends on your blog and who reads it. you seem to have a following here. a big one. lots of friends and people who love you and all that jazz. perhaps you do have a responsibility to them.

i've said before that i'm only peripherally a part of the infertility blog community. a cheap old fashioned way miscarriage, three ivf cycles, two pregnancies, and three kids. it's over for me, and i am the husband besides.

reading here and here and here drove me to set up my own little blog, and since i have the most frequent visitor has been me. i've gotten maybe a total of a dozen comments over 80-something posts.

on the other hand, nothing especially gut-wrenching seems to be happening in my life. like i said, the infertility torture is over for my family. yet life does not yet move on, for me.

even the name of my blog suggests a different attitude: my private space. out there on the internet where nobody knows you're a dog. so i say what i want and care not much who i offend.

perhaps, in the unlikely event i ever draw a community following, i might start to care. i dunno.

still, this is one of those things that makes me wonder: if our friends are our friends no matter what, would they be less our friends when we bitch about what's hard for them to hear? if they are less our friends ... are these friends we want in the first place?

I think we all have something in common. We are all scared and in some range of pain. We seek comfort from "sisters in pain".

The world does not revolve around our sensitivities and neither does our infertility blogdom.

We are more sensitive because of where we come from.

I think if a blogger changes and is hurtful or annoying, then nature takes of it. You will at some point not visit their shrine anymore.

I still think they are entitled to purge and vent and bitch and if they end up with no blog friends or a new set of friends then isn't that just as it in real life? This is no different.

Tertia, you have so many friends here who love you and you are so awesome but I don't think you will still be here when you have your babies and you need another kind of support group.

Aren't you entitled to that? As long as you don't delete your blog here it will ALWAYS be a source of comfort and information for women who have this in common.

You are in between and it is difficult. You are a sign of hope for us. A sign of what can be and I consider it a gift.

Heaven knows I've often become upset and annoyed my (fertile) friends bitching about their pregnancies and their kids. I know I'd be less inclined to want to strangle these complainers if they didn't sound so ungrateful to have what they have. The thing is, the fundamental difference with any complaints you might is that you would preface them with an acknowledgement of everything you've been through to get to this point. You are grateful and happy to be at this point and understand how terrible the alternative would be.

Besides, if anyone has earned the right to bitch, moan, scream or anything else it's definitely you.

I feel pretty much as you do. I was really stuck between a rock and a hard place when I finally got pg after a failed IVF (and 2 years of infertility treatment for PCOS and endometriosis, a miscarriage and fibroid surgery) but I felt so bad towards the friends I had made in the "infertile" community who I'd "left behind" that I tried never to "complain" about anything pregnancy related. As it turned out with my first pregnancy I really didn't have much to complain about -- really. I felt fine, never had morning sickness and was truly so happy I was glowing through the whole pregnancy. My second pregnancy (yes, I was lucky enough to conceive on my own the 2nd time) was another story -- morning sickness, sciatic pain, back pain, lots of braxton hicks contractions and the works. Both pregnancies I had to do heparin injections 2 -3 times daily throughout the entire pregnancy but in both instances I didn't see that as anything to complain about. I would have done hundreds of injections only to have a safe, healthy baby. And yet, despite feeling pretty darn crappy the second time around AND having a toddler to chase after, I still didn't feel as though I could or should complain. I was so very aware of how fortunate I was and I honestly and truly would go through everything again to have another one, except that we've decided that two is enough for us.

But I don't think you have to be a martyr. You have a right to gripe from time to time. It's also not so much what you SAY as HOW you say it. I think it's fair to say that as much as I'm thrilled to be pregnant, this sciatic pain is truly horrid and I can't sleep in any comfortable position. I don't think someone would take much offense to that or at least I don't think they shouldn't. It's the people who gripe ALL THE TIME about their pregnancies that get on my nerves. Pregnancy isn't always easy and there are things that come along with it that kind of suck like constipation, back pain, hemoroids, varicose veins, etc. but saying you don't enjoy those aspects of the pregnancy doesn't mean you don't value what you have or appreciate how fortunate you are to BE pregnant.

Believe me, it's the same after you deliver that little bundle of joy. As much as I adore my children and as thrilled as I am to have them, there are days I'd like to run away screaming from the house! :-) Despite that I NEVER forget how much I wanted these little darlings and I'm thankful each and every day. You will feel the same way too. The grass may be greener on the other side of the fence but if you look closely there's some moss mixed in with that grass too. :-)

Brava, Tertia. However, I kept a journal when I was pregnant. At the time, it was very private. I now find, to my delight, that my 24 yr old son loves to read it, look at the sonograms and the cartoons I kept and the hospital bracelents, etc., and plans to keep it for his 2 kids.

This is exactly how I feel. Sometimes I want to write about my son in my blog, because it is my blog after all and he's such a big part of my life. But I do try to keep it to a minimum, because my blog is about infertility and loss, not about motherhood.

I know a lot of primary infertiles won't read blogs about secondary infertility. But I appreciate the support of those that do read my blog, and I do my best to not step on any already bruised toes.

You can't avoid hurting people occasionally, mostly because the tiniest thing can set us off, but you can try not to.

This is exactly how I feel. Sometimes I want to write about my son in my blog, because it is my blog after all and he's such a big part of my life. But I do try to keep it to a minimum, because my blog is about infertility and loss, not about motherhood.

I know a lot of primary infertiles won't read blogs about secondary infertility. But I appreciate the support of those that do read my blog, and I do my best to not step on any already bruised toes.

You can't avoid hurting people occasionally, mostly because the tiniest thing can set us off, but you can try not to.

If you want to bitch about all the yucky parts of pregnancy, feel free to email me. I would love to hear all about it. :)

excellent thought provoking post -

I have made some very, very good friends through IF, a couple of whom have gone on to get pg, they are extremely careful to not mention it in any way unless I ask - which is just weird and makes me feel bad, which is of course just what they are trying to avoid.

There's just no two ways about it, it hurts to hear about pregnancy when you can't - and most likely won't - ever achieve that dream.

Thanks again and best wishes.

Of course you have the right to moan. Just as I, an infertile woman, have the right not to read your blog.

I guess that for me, despite the history a woman who was infertile but who is now pregnant, having perhaps suffered losses before, that pregnancy moves her/you to a place that has nothing to do with infertility, if that makes any sense?

Not sure I can explain it better than that, so I'll leave it there.

Good luck, and may all your dreams come true.

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